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07-06-2018, 07:50 PM
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23" Wood S&W Billy Club with friends... Slapjack & Handcuffs
I saw this on eBay under 'buy it now, or BO'. Spent some time researching but could find no reference to S&W ever making Billies. I thought it was possibly a fake but sent an offer. I have since heard from another forum member who has 2 that these are real.
23" long, oak with a stain that looks like the 70's era target grips Any info on S&W wooden billy clubs would be appreciated.
Shown with my Model 96M S&W slapjack (middle of the 3 sizeds the company made) from the 1970s, and
early marked Model 100p handcuffs from about 1979 or 80, According to the SWCA & forum cuff guru, the company introduced the model 100 in 1979. The bracelets bear a serial number beginning with 00 and 4 digits "Club" cuffs, Don??
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07-06-2018, 08:15 PM
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My first issued night stick in the early '80's was wooden. I don't recall the maker but I am pretty sure ours were hickory, not oak. They took them up soon after I went on the force and issued a plastic/nylon night stick then the PR-24's.
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07-07-2018, 01:08 PM
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US Veteran SWCA Founding Member Absent Comrade
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You will see these saps & nightsticks in the 80s era S&W Police Equipment catalogs. Ed.
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07-07-2018, 01:54 PM
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I remember the clubs with a stock S&W button in the top of the handle, but without the emblem on the barrel. I had S&W cuffs but not a slapjack, those were for old guys. Fact is that by the mid 70s they were frowned upon in my department. We did have Maglites as an emergency impact weapon.
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07-09-2018, 05:08 PM
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Misty water-colored memories of the way we were.
Kelitis (n) a painful condition of the joints and long bones brought on by fighting with the police.
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Last edited by Buford57; 07-09-2018 at 05:10 PM.
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07-09-2018, 05:27 PM
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My slap adjusted the behavior of a newly arrested when applied professionally.
The baton was carried on formal crowd control only.
Never did learn the great twirls and showmanship as the NYPD taught!
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07-09-2018, 05:34 PM
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The actual name is flat sap. The only thing I ever used mine for was, once in a while I drove an unmarked car and occasionally the left head light would go out and I would reach out the window and smack the top of the fender and the light would come back on. True story!
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07-11-2018, 06:37 AM
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The best pocket impact weapon I found was a "Convoy" blackjack. A lead head mounted on a spring handle and covered with leather. A real attention getter. Once an unruly citizen met the convoy, the citizen did not want a second meeting.
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07-11-2018, 09:47 AM
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Looks like you are all set for a night out on the town
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07-11-2018, 09:52 AM
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Nice find! I carried all 3. The sap is great for taking out collar bones...so I am told. All my uniform pants had sap pockets.
Last edited by CH4; 07-11-2018 at 09:55 AM.
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08-14-2018, 08:53 PM
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Carried all three, used all three, and still have them. One thing I added to this trio is a pair of Damascus Sap Gloves, and those got some use back in the day.
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08-14-2018, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyj
The best pocket impact weapon I found was a "Convoy" blackjack. A lead head mounted on a spring handle and covered with leather. A real attention getter. Once an unruly citizen met the convoy, the citizen did not want a second meeting.
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...BUCHEIMER CONVOY BLACKJACK...
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08-15-2018, 08:53 AM
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Dad was a cop and sometimes people he knew would have a run in with the law and ask his advice of what to do. This one guy came by the house it seems he was driving while drinking and got stopped then tried to fight with tne officer.He had two big bruises one on each side of his head .He wanted to know about sueing the officer .Dad said well what happened he admitted he was trying to fight he said this young punk took this little leather thing right quick and knocked me slap down with it and handcuffed me and threw me in tne back seat .Dad said well that explains on side of ya head busted what happened to the other side .He said well that's what I'm going to sue him about . He said I finally got straightened up a little and I told him he was lucky he caught me off guard but if I wasn't hand cuffed I bet he couldn't do that again .The young officer pulled over drug him out if the car unhad cuffed and said ok are ya ready the fella said he replied yea I'm ready he said that crazy SO and So snatched that thig out and back slapped me on this side knocking me down again then handcuffed me and took me to jail. Dad said instead of sueing him what you should do is see if he might hire you .The fella said hire me for what .Dad said to use as hid training dummy . The guy left never came back .True story.
Last edited by S&WsRsweet; 08-15-2018 at 08:55 AM.
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02-21-2019, 09:32 AM
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When I started in 73, wooden batons were an essential part of our daily wear. The sap and the blackjack were “add ones”. My TO told me the first day I worked with him to go buy a sap and a back up gun. I followed those instructions. Later I would be a motor cop, and carried a flat sap in my uniform trousers in a slash pocket made specifically for that implement.
I instruct nowadays at our state academy, tasers, asp’s and OC have replaced the hardwood batons, saps, blackjacks and mag lites. I know some “old dogs” that still carry saps, but they are few and far between nowadays. Tools of the trade in bygone days.
Last edited by loc n load; 02-21-2019 at 09:36 AM.
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02-21-2019, 10:18 AM
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Back in 70s when S&W was heavy into police equippment the distributors started a extortion racket. To insure you access to S&W revolvers you had to purchase S&W accessorie package. I bought a lot of this stuff cheap from shops that went under in 80s and the local shows were full of it for
10yrs. Winchester tried a similar racket prior to WW2. It didn't work for
them either.
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02-21-2019, 07:01 PM
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sap/jack
Here's a moldy oldie...it's a lead shot filled pocket sap from the 1940s. I got a feeling that it would have some interesting tales if it could talk freely
Last edited by michpatriot; 02-21-2019 at 07:03 PM.
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02-25-2019, 02:42 PM
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An officer I worked with... his father was an old school state trooper... I saw a troublemaker take a swing at him in a crowded venue. (From our vantage point, we couldn't get there to back him up.) Said troublemaker went down like a sack of potatoes. Everybody... even said troublemaker... swore he'd been hit with an open hand.
Officer T had a flat slapper concealed up his sleeve I suspect, used it, & dropped it in the special trousers pocket so fast no one saw it. What an art!
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02-25-2019, 03:18 PM
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quinn (Randy),
I've enjoyed your thread on billy clubs, slapjacks & handcuffs.
I would like to make a few clarifications on the S&W Model 100 handcuffs.
The first "model 100" handcuffs (also the first S&W handcuffs with the "slot" double lock system), were manufactured pre-1979 & manufactured in the Springfield, MA. plant. These were the patent pending versions with the "cheeks" marked PAT'S PENDING and did not have the model number stamped on them. There were two versions of the PAT'S PENDING cuffs.
The 1st version had the "double lock slot" only on the front keyway side (photo 1).
The 2nd version had the "double lock slot" on front & back sides (photo 2).
When the handcuffs were marked with the model number, M-100, the manufacturing had moved to the Houlton, ME facility, and in 1979 started the M-100 marked versions with the "slot double lock" on both sides (photo 3).
The "push-pin" double lock, M-100P handcuff like you posted, did not appear until 2005. I have a S&W Academy Handcuff Price List Effective May 1, 2005, showing the M-100P and stating the Individual Officer Price of $18.05 and a Suggested Retail Price of $28.95. M-100P in (photo 4).
Also in this price list, for the first time listed, was a 103P & 104P.
The Model 1, chain link, and Model 1H, hinged handcuffs, these were larger adjustable cuffs (50% more than the M-100) were both introduced "New in 1999" and these were manufactured with the "push-pin" double lock system. This was the first time S&W went back to the "push-pin" double lock system since they used this system in the early handcuffs manufactured started in 1952 through 1978.
Sorry about giving a long explanation.
Dave
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02-25-2019, 03:24 PM
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A open handed slap with a palm sap has been known to drop someone to their knees.And a open handed slap like that would also give the officer a lot of street cred.Wearing gloves with sap on your non gun hand kept it concealed and still allowed use of firearm in emergency.
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02-25-2019, 05:05 PM
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Back in the 1970's we carried nickel Model 10's (4"), 12 round drop pouch, mace, peerless handcuffs and a nightstick. Also Motorola radios. No slapjacks, saps allowed. Carried the nightstick between the seat and door jamb. Regulations required we have it with us when out of the car or walking a beat. Ours had a rubber grommet that kept it in the ring on our duty belt. Carried a couple of flexi-cuffs inside our hats. Most officers carried a Kel Light or Mag Light if they could afford one. No rechargeables back then. Spent a lot of money on dura cells batteries. I still have my "C" cell Kel Light. Liked it as it would fit in back pocket - I believe it is a 3 cell model.
Pepper spray, collapsible batons (asp), tasers, came later.
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04-05-2019, 09:55 PM
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Papaw was an Illinois St. Police Lt. back in the 30's & 40's. When I was a kid, he showed me his S&W HD .38/.44 6" and his blackjack.
Three things I still remember was:
1. "Don't hit em' in the head with a blackjack, You'd kill em'. Hit in the collar bone, shoulder, elbow, wrist/hand and you'd break it and the fight would go out of em".
2. Don't ever put your wrist through the blackjack strap. Someone could grab the blackjack and tie up your arm and be unable to use it. Just put your thumb through the loop and wrap the strap around the outside (back) of your hand so it ends up resting in your palm between the thumb and forefinger. That way, if someone grabbed your blackjack, all you had to do was open your hand and the jack would be released.
3. Always use the blackjack with your left hand, so if it doesn't work, you can still draw your pistol with your right hand!
Last edited by Abbynormal; 04-05-2019 at 10:00 PM.
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04-07-2019, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dltvette
quinn (Randy),
I've enjoyed your thread on billy clubs, slapjacks & handcuffs.
I would like to make a few clarifications on the S&W Model 100 handcuffs.
The first "model 100" handcuffs (also the first S&W handcuffs with the "slot" double lock system), were manufactured pre-1979 & manufactured in the Springfield, MA. plant. These were the patent pending versions with the "cheeks" marked PAT'S PENDING and did not have the model number stamped on them. There were two versions of the PAT'S PENDING cuffs.
The 1st version had the "double lock slot" only on the front keyway side (photo 1).
The 2nd version had the "double lock slot" on front & back sides (photo 2).
When the handcuffs were marked with the model number, M-100, the manufacturing had moved to the Houlton, ME facility, and in 1979 started the M-100 marked versions with the "slot double lock" on both sides (photo 3).
The "push-pin" double lock, M-100P handcuff like you posted, did not appear until 2005. I have a S&W Academy Handcuff Price List Effective May 1, 2005, showing the M-100P and stating the Individual Officer Price of $18.05 and a Suggested Retail Price of $28.95. M-100P in (photo 4).
Also in this price list, for the first time listed, was a 103P & 104P.
The Model 1, chain link, and Model 1H, hinged handcuffs, these were larger adjustable cuffs (50% more than the M-100) were both introduced "New in 1999" and these were manufactured with the "push-pin" double lock system. This was the first time S&W went back to the "push-pin" double lock system since they used this system in the early handcuffs manufactured started in 1952 through 1978.
Sorry about giving a long explanation.
Dave
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Dave: Thanks for the historical info. It was great.
Randy
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04-08-2019, 12:01 AM
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I have a set of S&W regular finish Nickel Model 90 with vapor paper, box and key.
Worth anything?
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05-14-2019, 04:32 PM
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The stick and slapjack would be great to keep in the car.
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05-14-2019, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delcrossv
The stick and slapjack would be great to keep in the car.
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Be very careful doing that. There are some locales which consider either to be a deadly weapon
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05-14-2019, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAFireman
Be very careful doing that. There are some locales which consider either to be a deadly weapon
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Not here, fortunately.
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05-15-2019, 05:19 AM
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Ah memories. "Old School" the way things were and should still be!
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05-15-2019, 05:46 AM
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Don't you mean .......
Quote:
Originally Posted by KEN L
The actual name is flat sap. The only thing I ever used mine for was, once in a while I drove an unmarked car and occasionally the left head light would go out and I would reach out the window and smack the top of the fender and the light would come back on. True story!
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Don't you mean a fat slap????
That's pretty good about the headlight adjustment tool.
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05-15-2019, 05:54 AM
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I have an old billy club...
...but I didn't know Louisville slugger ever made them.
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05-15-2019, 11:47 AM
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I had D cell, Kel-Light. Towards the end of my service, there was a lot of flack over their use as a striking implement. I'd already retired my wooden stick with the aforementioned rubber grommet in favor of an early PR24.
My only defensive use of the Kel-light was an off duty incident. My then fiancee & I were eating dinner at the remote house, a caretakers cottage belonging to the state in a Wildlife Management area. Some jerk broke through the locked gate in front of the (lighted) house with his 4X4. The improved trails were all closed during the winter & hunting seasons.
We were outside inspecting the damage when the perp came back. We flashed our flashlights at him & he tried to run us down. As I dove out of the way, I flung my Kel-light at the truck. The truck kept going & was stopped by the State Police.
I recovered the Kel-light in the snow with his paint on it... reportedly a nice gouge in his hood! A real shame it didn't take out the windshield. The scary part was I lost sight of my fiancee in the dive out of the way.
The perp got off on the destruction of property, claimed it was an accident. On our testimony, he was convicted of assault with a deadly weapon.
Not long before an officer in my dept on traffic detail had a someone try to run him down... his Kel-light was recovered at an intersection a half mile away... in a puddle of antifreeze.
We both got our lights back.
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