Pen flare-launcher made *more or less* by S&W.

Todd1917 · #1 02-19-2022, 08:51 PM

I recently found a Lake Erie Chemical Company (LECC) .44 cal pen-launcher/(gun?) in an estate sale.

I understand that LECC was owned by either S&W and/or Bangor Punta and figured here might be a good place to ask about it but I figured to check here first as these are such weird items.

Is it OK to talk about it here and if so; which thread?

Thanks, Todd.

AJ · #2 02-19-2022, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd1917

I recently found a Lake Erie Chemical Company (LECC) .44 cal pen-launcher/(gun?) in an estate sale.

I understand that LECC was owned by either S&W and/or Bangor Punta and figured here might be a good place to ask about it but I figured to check here first as these are such weird items.

Is it OK to talk about it here and if so; which thread?

Thanks, Todd.

Got a picture of it?

THE PILGRIM · #3 02-19-2022, 09:08 PM

Here’s the ones I posted just the other day.
The long one says MBA, San Ramon, CA.
The short also says MBA with what appears to be a FSN.

AJ · #4 02-19-2022, 09:15 PM

This is what our aircrews used IIRC.

Eric300 · #5 02-19-2022, 09:40 PM

Those are referred to as 'Zip Guns' around these parts. Homemade or otherwise.

AJ · #6 02-19-2022, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric300

Those are referred to as 'Zip Guns' around these parts. Homemade or otherwise.

Improvised firearm - Wikipedia

Greyman50 · #7 02-20-2022, 08:07 AM

Actually called “ pen guns”, “ tear gas guns”Use by US Military was in Aircrew survival kits, all services. In 40 + years of collecting/ studying US Militaria have had many. Gave my son all my reference books on aircraft related items or I’d post a couple pages, sigh, wish had kept the book..Here’s page from 75 dated ATF booklet.F439A7B3-2FC4-4056-AA8E-2E184D41D409.jpg

AJ · #8 02-20-2022, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyman50

Actually called “ pen guns”, “ tear gas guns”Use by US Military was in Aircrew survival kits, all services. In 40 + years of collecting/ studying US Militaria have had many. Gave my son all my reference books on aircraft related items or I’d post a couple pages, sigh, wish had kept the book..Here’s page from 75 dated ATF booklet.Attachment 560924

In the Corps we called them Pencil Flare Guns, those darn Marines just gotta be different.😁

Greyman50 · #9 02-20-2022, 11:31 AM

Back in high school good friends dad was a locksmith, he had a case of the screw in flares used by boaters. “ Somehow” we got several packs of flares and a pen gun. The fun we had is all I’ll say.

Scharfschuetzer · #10 02-20-2022, 11:36 AM

We just called them "Pen Flares" or "Pin Flares."

They were part of our survival kit, along with a strobe light when overseas.

Alk8944 · #11 02-20-2022, 12:14 PM

Back in the 1960's-70's several companies made these which fired both teargas and flares. Unfortunately the gas/flare cartridges for some of them were interchangeable with .38 Special and there was no way to prevent firing a live .38 round except common sense!!! I have no direct knowledge if this was ever done, but I do know the brand the shop I was working in at the time used the .38 spl. sized cartridges.

The one OP posted about was made by Mainhardt/Biehl Associates, hence the MBA marking. MBA was the company that made the "Gyrojet" line of firearms that fired small rockets instead of normal ammunition. MBA also made one version of the 40mm "Stun Gun" that fired shot filled "Bean bags". My department owned several of their stun guns.

Todd1917 · #12 02-20-2022, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ

Got a picture of it?

It was too dark to take one yesterday and I really posted only to find out if it was OK to address these on the forum and once approved, I'd build a proper post.

So:

It came from an estate sale of a former LE type. Looking into it, most often, the Lake Erie Chemical Company item is addressed as a tear gas launcher but is also noted as being for a .44 S&W cartridge.

Knowing that .44 S&W is NOT a model power house, I am still dubious of those claims in looking at the very thin wall of the barrel - even taking into account threading it into the main body.

So, on this I am open to greater experience and expertise.

The serial number is unusual for what I'v been able to find and while it does not have LECC written out (many apparently do not) it does have the Sedgely patent date clearly and expertly marked.

Todd1917 · #13 02-20-2022, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ

This is what our aircrews used IIRC.

I still have two sets of those from retiring.

Todd1917 · #14 02-20-2022, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alk8944

Back in the 1960's-70's several companies made these which fired both teargas and flares. Unfortunately the gas/flare cartridges for some of them were interchangeable with .38 Special and there was no way to prevent firing a live .38 round except common sense!!! I have no direct knowledge if this was ever done, but I do know the brand the shop I was working in at the time used the .38 spl. sized cartridges.

That's rather where I end up with this one when logic takes over.

I have to believe that a .44 S&W cartridge fitting HAS to be coincidental to the designed-for tear gas cartridge.

The .22 pen-guns, I get as they have reasonably believable barrels.

John_M52 · #15 02-20-2022, 01:38 PM

I have one stored away somewhere. My father had flares and CS (tear gas). My first experience with CS was when I was maybe 8 in our back yard. He fired it and I walked through the cloud. Mom was not happy.

Greyman50 · #16 02-20-2022, 06:30 PM

Not having any real life experience but heard trying to race a flare shot down the interstate was fun……heard it from friends back in 60’s

terry_tr6 · #17 02-20-2022, 11:37 PM

i remember ads for these pens and little pistols that fired tear gas in comic books. supposedly they were for shooting into animal burrows to flush them (including snakes) out. well, that's what the ads said to use them for...

Llance · #18 02-21-2022, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ

This is what our aircrews used IIRC.

I've got two of those things AJ, and I've had them since 1974. I see no reason to worry about them going bad so each of them are in one of the two BOB's I have.

opoefc · #19 02-21-2022, 01:19 PM

Back in the Day, both Colt & S&W sold these flare launchers. You will see them in the S&W Accessory catalogs of the 70s era. Incident: I sold a set to a S&WCA member and he put them in his shirt pocket . Took off his shirt to go to bed that night, dropped the launcher out of his shirt pocket on to the carpet in the bedroom of his new RV. Flare went off. Celulose carpet caught fire. Used his new $50 shirt to stamp out fire. ( Forgot he had loaded the flare to see how it worked. It worked fine. ) Ed

AJ · #20 02-21-2022, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opoefc

Back in the Day, both Colt & S&W sold these flare launchers. You will see them in the S&W Accessory catalogs of the 70s era. Incident: I sold a set to a S&WCA member and he put them in his shirt pocket . Took off his shirt to go to bed that night, dropped the launcher out of his shirt pocket on to the carpet in the bedroom of his new RV. Flare went off. Celulose carpet caught fire. Used his new $50 shirt to stamp out fire. ( Forgot he had loaded the flare to see how it worked. It worked fine. ) Ed

As Forest would say: "Stupid is as stupid does"........

MP-5 · #21 02-21-2022, 04:18 PM

Todd1917 · #22 02-22-2022, 07:54 PM

While the flare launchers above are always of interest to me....

To be clear, this is not a flare launcher but rather a tear gas launcher that is - coincidentally or not - of .44 S&W *chamber* dimensions.

The thread got started as I had asked a question on another thread about format and where to discuss this but the questioning post became the OP - unfortunately.

So, back to point, as this was made by Lake Eerie Chemical Company and that company was rolled into Bangor Punta/S&W - do any S&W experts have knowledge of this rascal?

It came from a retired F.B.I. agent but both he and his wife are now passed.

It was in his cache with hand-cuffs, cartridge-drops, a couple of guns, pile of holsters and such, so I'm fairly confident it was a working piece for him.

Regards, Todd.