Bought my personal Holy Grail of Smiths

LelandRay

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I finally broke down and did it: I have purchased the S&W I always wanted but never thought I'd be able to buy. But it's on the way, now--eventually.

Yes, folks, after watching The Laughing Policeman and Magnum Force, as well as having known a couple of folks who carried one on duty, I am (eventually) the proud owner of a more or less new police trade in Smith & Wesson M76!

Like this one, for instance...

sw76.jpg


It's outfitted with all sorts of sweet "extras," including enough magazines to make a Hollywood blockbuster without heading to the loading bench.

Now to wait on Unca Sugar...
 
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Always wanted to know what mags they took. Is it just for that model or long 59 series or what ? I ruled out Colt ar mags lol.
 
Always wanted to know what mags they took. Is it just for that model or long 59 series or what ? I ruled out Colt ar mags lol.

Gun and mags are a copy of the Swedish K, mags are 36 round.

m.
 
I imagine it will shoot much like a Sten which I have shot... And it was a hand full!

The sten has the mag out the side and I braced myself as hard as I could (it's only a 9mm) and I couldn't stop the barrel rise :) Fortunately the mag is empty in a couple seconds LOL!

Nice purchase!
 
We had those at work. I really enjoyed shooting it at the range. I only wish my home state (New York) was a Class III state so I could legally own one. Nice find. Good luck with it.
 
Congrats on your new NFA. While I have never handle yet fired the S&W76 I do have experince with the Swedish K and its licensed Eygptian copy the Port Said. Watch your magazine springs getting weak. This was the problem I had with the Port Said below.

Sterlings_PPSh41_Port_Said_Beretta_M12.JPG


When firing do not hold the magazine as this can cause malfunctions. Hold it at the mag well and the lower front of the reciever. Guns are quite fun and controlable. Remember to lean forward with your body weight and don't stand with your shoulders back as this can then rock you back, causing you to lose control. As demonstrated here with a MP40 (hand on mag well, lean forward). Its not the 9mm round that is powerful, its the heavy bolt rocking back and forth.

MP40.jpg


Again, congrats on your new gun. I had to leave all mine behind in country.

CD
 
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Zombie vs Vampire

Awesome, now go kill some zombie/vampires

I have a suppressed Steyr AUG for zombies, but I intend to load the S&W for vampires. What kind of ammo, you ask? Why SILVERtips, of course!
 
I love shooting full auto weapons and have had the opportunity to fire lots of different ones, including various MP5s in both 9mm and 45ACP, AKs, Thompsons (M28, M21, M1A1), the M16, Glock 18, RPK, MP40, MG42, several of the MACs, the Uzi, and one of my all-time favorites, the BAR.

Of them all, the MP5 and the Thompson were easiest to hit with consistently, while the Glock was almost totally useless. Not a big fan of the MAC or Uzi either, for that matter. The BAR is the most fun you can have with your clothes on.
 
You think I'm nuts?

Please don't leave Charlie alone with it! ;)
f.t.

Charlie will get to play, but he'll have to buy his own ammo, and he'll have to load his own mags, too.

Speaking of mags, the Swedish K / Carl Gustav M45 mags do not work in the S&W without minor fitting. The Smith mags are slightly smaller in dimensions, so tiny amounts of metal have to be removed from the K mags to get them to fit in the S&W magwell. Suomi M31 mags also work and are a whole lot cheaper, @$10-$15 each or so compared to $75-$100 each for original Smith mags. I have 11 Smith mags and an equal number of Suomi (Finnish) mags, so Charlie will have his work cut out for him.
 
Congratulations!!! I had the opportunity to fire the M76 when I was in the police academy in 1979. It was awesome.
 
Congratulations on the buy. I kick myself every week when I think about them selling for around $80 back in the 70s. My chief at the time would not sign the form 4 so I didn't order one. "Law and Order" magazine had 1/4 page ads for several years trying to move them. The Navy contract never materialized and PDs were still in the shotgun state of mind so they didn't sell well.

Parts are still available and I believe they are C&R status with ATF. The 76 is a nice lightweight, compact, easily controlled gun. Have fun with it.
 
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Speaking of mags, the Swedish K / Carl Gustav M45 mags do not work in the S&W without minor fitting. The Smith mags are slightly smaller in dimensions, so tiny amounts of metal have to be removed from the K mags to get them to fit in the S&W magwell. Suomi M31 mags also work and are a whole lot cheaper, @$10-$15 each or so compared to $75-$100 each for original Smith mags. I have 11 Smith mags and an equal number of Suomi (Finnish) mags, so Charlie will have his work cut out for him.

Congrats on the 76, LelandRay!

You are quite correct about the Suomi M31 36-rd stick mags being the best option for S&W 76 mags. I have 16 Suomi sticks and 23 S&W factory mags and when I shoot the 76 I almost always used the Suomis. Why? Because the Suomis are blued inside and out and the S&W mags are phosphated. Way less friction in the Suomis, even as compared to thsoe S&W mags I have that are well-worn.

When loading mags and once the mag has around 24 rounds, it becomes hard to load. I sit on the floor, put my thumb on the round I want to load, and "bump" the floorplate of the mag on the carpet. The rounds jump downward and the loose round snaps into the mag.

The 76 is a medium-range cyclic rate gun. My 76 times out at about 720 rds per min, and empties a 36 rd mag in three seconds sharp.

My own 76, a "U4000" series gun, shown wearing a Suomi stick mag:

76_Rt_Side_Folded.jpg


76_Rt_Side_Ext.jpg


76_Lt_Side_Ext.jpg



Noah
 
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Thanks, Noah

That's very good info to have, considering that a big box of Suomi mags will be delivered here tomorrow via UPS. Someplace I have a link to instructions for modifying them to the 76, but I'll have to wait on doing that until the gun is actually in my possession.

As for loading mags, Numrich has Swedish K / Suomi loaders that load from a block style stripper clip via a plunger. The block holds 36 rounds and loads a mag in about ten seconds flat, which is a bonus for me, as I have some nerve damage in my left arm and hand that makes it difficult for me to "start" rounds into a tight mag. I press down with my left thumb while aligning the next round with my right and continuing pressure from there. In practice loading a 76 mag, I found that after one mag I had to take a break, and after doing it twice, I was in pretty significant pain, with accompanying weakness in my left hand.

Suomi / Carl Gustaf M45 Loader at Numrich

Loader in use

I even contacted Lula directly to ask if their Uzi Lula would work, and the answer was no, but having seen the K loader in action, I think I can live with it. Cost of the loader with ten clips was about $74, including shipping.
 
Ray:

In your case, the 6x6 loader might be the way to go, but it's like loading twice.

You might try the "bump" method that I described in my post above. The S&W mags are double-stack, double-feed. No "pressing" needed. Just place the loose round on top of the feed lips, making sure the case head is just in front of the mag's rear wall, and smack the floorplate smartly against the benchtop, floor, top of your thigh, the pit bull's head, or any other hard surface. The round will "snap" into place as momentum carries the spring, follower, and and round(s) downward as the mag comes to a stop.

Speaking of Suomi mags, to modify them all you need to do is file off about 0.010" to 0.014" (in MY gun) from the two pads at the TOP FRONT of the Suomi stick. This is strictly a file/try/file lather-rinse-repeat drill. DO NOT mod the mags until the 76 arrives so that you and file and try each one. That way the modded Suomis are not too loose, but sufficiently loose as to allow for quick and easy mag changes.




As for factory S&W 76 magazines, following is a post I did for the S&W 76 subforum at Uzi Talk; for a time there was some speculation that some S&W 76 mags on the market were not of S&W manufacture because the floorplate tab sticking out the front of the mag was long or short, and the "9mm Ctg" legend on the floorplate was located in two different places on one mag or another; turns out that circumstantial evidence strongly suggests that a production change was indeed made at S&W. Read on:

There are at least two different kinds of production S&W 76 magazines, which I detail with photos below. This post deals with prodcution S&W 76 magazines, and NOT tool room magazines which are different in design.

There has been some opinion stated here and elsewhere that S&W 76 magazines with the "long tab" floorplate with "9mm Ctg" stamped toward the front of the mage are not genuine and are somehow fakes. I disagree.

I have 13 S&W 76 magazines that date back to 1970-71 and 11 of the 13 have a long tab floorplate which is stamped "9mm Ctg" toward the front of the floorplate.

The other two S&W 76 magazines have floorplates stamped with "9mm Ctg" toward the back wall of the mag.

The followers in ALL 13 of the S&W mags identical, made of stamped steel.

There are welds up the front and the back of ALL 13 of the mag bodies.

The stiffening groove in the sides of all 13 of the mag bodies is in an "offset-V" rather than a radiused curve found in MK 760 mags.

The cartridge witness holes are also identical on ALL 13 mags, as are the round count numbers, right down to the vertically offset "6" in the "36" stamping.

The location and appearance of the stitch welds that attach the front and rear pads and the floorplate retainer stirups are again identical on all 13 mags.

Finally, the floorplate keeper buttons are flat in profile on ALL 13 mags.



Photos of my mags:

"Short tab" mags on left:
DSC08668.jpg


Note the "6" in "36" is raised a bit on all of the mag bodies, including the two "short tab" mags at left:
DSC08670.jpg


Pads and pad welds are the same . . .
DSC08671.jpg


. . . as are the front pads:
DSC08672.jpg


Same for the stiffening ribs:
DSC08673.jpg


Closeup of the floorplates:
DSC08675.jpg


Closeup of followers:
DSC08676.jpg



The reason that I can say with certainty that ALL 13 of the S&W 76 magazines in my posession are genuine is due to where and when I got them. All 13 that I own came from a dealer/gunsmith in my hometown who bought them in late 1970 or early 1971 as part of an order of three S&W 76 subguns and 30-some magazines, one for himself and two for eventual sale. For years I used to "hang out" at this dealer/gunsmith's shop in his basement, and was his extra pair of hands, gunshow table-sitter, and shop cleaning person, getting paid in boxes of 22LR ammo. He bought the three S&W 76s and the mags when I was a junior in HS. I got to fire his 76 a few times, the last being shortly before I left for Parris Island in August of 1972.

The dealer passed away in 1978, and I attended the estate sale and among other things purchased the 13 S&W 76 mags in a "mixed lot" carton of M14, M1911, and M1 Carbine magazines and other items. Nobody bid on the box, and the opening bid was $20 and I bid that and won. I was interested in the M1 Carbine and M1911 magazines but held onto the M14 and S&W 76 mags "just in case."

Since the gunsmith/dealer bought the 13 mags from S&W, and the mag bodies are IDENTICAL with only the floorplates being different, I am 100% confident that regardless of the difference in floorplates, all 13 mags are the "real deal."

Last year I purchased 10 more S&W 76 mags with the long tab floorplate, and they are identical to the "long tab" mags that I got from the deceased dealer's estate sale.

If the "long tab" S&W 76 mags are fakes, somebody went to A LOT of trouble back in the early 70s to exactly counterfeit everything but the floorplates. As an MG dealer told me a few years ago, it's his opinion that S&W likely made the floorplate tab longer on subsequent mag orders so that the longer tab could be used as a disassembly tool (screwdriver) in removing the handgrip screw.

William of Occam stated in so many words that "the simplest explanation is most often the correct one," (Occam's Razor). Given the provenance of my 13 S&W 76 magazines that were all purchased by the same dealer in the early 70s, and that S&W likely changed the floorplate design at some point, and that all 13 of my S&W 76 mags run without fault 100% of the time, I can only conclude that they are genuine.


Noah
 
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Hello again, Noah.

I did load three mags by hand today, and I'm going to have to have a loader. I bought a single round Suomi loader off Gunbroker, by the way, and I did try your bump method, but no dice. Just too much arthritis and various other damage to the hands.

I'm going to go look at another gun tomorrow, a very nice MK 760, and if nothing else, I'm going to run a few mags through it. If I have TOO much fun, however, I might be out another few dollars.

Getting the sheriff's John Hancock and fingerprints tomorrow so I'll be ready when the transfer from the Smith's current owner to my dealer is completed. Then it's just wait some more.

I registered on Uzitalk today, by the way. I'll get in there and read more stuff when I have a chance.
 
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