Twist rate of 1980's vintage S&W 1500 in 223 Rem

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sbrmike

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I picked up a S&W model 1500 (Howa 1500); S&W marketed them from about 1980-1985. Mossberg then marketed the 1500 Howa as the Mossberg 1500 for a few years and then finally Weatherby picked up the 1500 Howa and named it the Vanguard. S&W has no info and told me to contact Howa thru Legacy Sports. Legacy Sports says they have no information on rifles that old and to contact Smith & Wesson. The current Weatherby Vanguard in 223 as made with the Howa supplied barreled action sports a 1:8 twist. Does anybody have an Ad or knowledge of the twist rate of a Howa made S&W 1500 in 223 Rem circa 1982?
 
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Go to you tube and type in How to measure twist in a rifle barrel and Larry Potterfield from Midway will tell you how.
 
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Read and follow post #2. It certainly wouldn't be a 1-8 twist as bullets that required that twist weren't around then-or at least I don't recall them. I've got a rifle from that era with a 1-10 twist, it'll stabilize a 69 gr SMK, but not a heavier/longer bullet. I'd expect the most common twist in that era to be 1-12, which is limiting on bullet weight.
 
A quick Internet search implies the barrel twist is 1 in 12”. Whatever it is, trying lighter (45 - 55 gr) bullets first would be best, followed by heavier ones. You may find the rifle’s happy place without knowing barrel specifics.
 
For what it's worth, I had a Remington 22-250 with a 1 in 12" twist and found Nosler 55 gr BT stabilized very well up to 3600 FPS. I would assume the .223 would be down around 3000 fps and should handle that or at least a 52 gr.

Fun of working up a load and finally getting those Tiny groups you are looking for.
 
I think that far back it would be a 12 twist if they were not just using the same barrel blanks as for .222 and .22-250 at a 14 twist.

Consider that 14 twist barrels were standard until the Army went small bore. The .222 was introduced with a 50 gr spitzer and they shot a lot of 52 gr boattails. The .222 Magnum came out with a 55 gr spitzer.
 
I owned a Howa 1500 .223 years ago, it had a 1-12” twist. It thrived on 52 grain HP bullets.
 

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My old Speer reloading manual from that era has a twist rate table in the back. Almost all rifles listed had a 1-12 twist. Only exceptions were Mini-14 at 1-10 and the Rem 40x and Swedish Husky at 1-14. Howa/S&W/ Mossberg 1500 not listed, however.
 
I have not found it written in stone, but all indications are 1:12 Twist. I no way was inferring that it may be 1:8 or similar. I was just pointing out that my research showed the current twist, which is 1:8.

I was more worried that it may have been 1:14. It appears to be 1:12 and the ammo that I intend to use, if I can ever find any is Nosler Partition bullets in 60 grains. That is what the guy that I bought it off used in it. Nosler states the 60 grain 224 diameter Partition is OK in 1:12 and faster barrels.

I have 55 grain soft points for it for now, if I even get out this year. Too many surgeries. I had to give up the hard kickers, hence my 223 gun now. The S&W 1500 is perfect for me. 223 but still blue and walnute with a hinged floorplate.
 
My old 22-250 with a 22" barrel and 1:14 twist will place the 60 gr Nosler Partition at

4 @ .81 and 3 @ .99 with 4895 &4350powders at around 3480fps, at 100 yards.

A 1:12 or slower will handle the larger bullets better, if that's is what you want to shoot

but the old 223's were designed for the lighter 55 gr or less bullets, when introduced.
 
Nevada Ed said:
My old 22-250 with a 22" barrel and 1:14 twist will place the 60 gr Nosler Partition at

4 @ .81 and 3 @ .99 with 4895 &4350powders at around 3480fps, at 100 yards.

A 1:12 or slower will handle the larger bullets better, if that's is what you want to shoot

but the old 223's were designed for the lighter 55 gr or less bullets, when introduced.
Click to expand...

Everyone else is going to a faster twist like 1:7 or 1:8 for larger (heavier) bullets. Why do you say the 1:12 or slower will be better for larger bullets?
 
All you have to do: insert a cleaning rod with a snug fitting patch into the bore then with a sharpie mark a line around the cleaning rod at the muzzle and also make a index mark on the cleaning rod and the a corresponding mark on the muzzle then slowly pull the cleaning rod out until it has made one revolution then measure how far the mark on the cleaning rod is from the muzzle and that is your twist rate. A fast twist barrel (shorter distance to make one revolution) will stabilize a heavier bullet better than a slower twist (longer distance to make one revolution). That is the complete do it yourself deal on barrel twist rate.
 
about a year or so ago, bought a very slightly used Browning X bolt in 223. Nice wooden stock, but was frustrated when I could not get it to group at all with my usual 62 and even 55 grains, or my heavier bullet reloads. Looked it up on Browning's sight, said it had a 1/8 twist. Then decided to check for myself, with the cleaning rod trick, and it is actually a 1/12 twist 223 rifle.

So loaded up some 40 grain Hornady, and it is a one inch gun off a sandbag, scope of course. Mentioned this to the LGS where I bought it, and my friend at the counter told me the former owner brought it back because he couldn't get it to group. So I suspect the former shooter tried store bought heavier ammo, and gave up.

But with my hand loaded 40's, it is spectacular at 100 yards. I just checked my rifle's date of manufacture, it is a 2013 rifle.

My Browning is a varmint rifle, and twisted for that wt bullet.

All good now. NV
 
Standard .223/5.56 twist for the AR-15/M16 at that time was 1:12…goes to follow commercial barrels would be the same unless a special order.

I have a Remington 788 in .223 from that time period…it’s a 1:12 twist.
 
My 1982 model 1500 .223 bull barrel varmint is 1:12 and only shoots Australian Outback 55 grain Sierra Blitzking.
 

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A new shooter showed up at a range I was at. He had a new modern 223 rifle, medium bbl, a look of a target rifle. It was a gift from his wife. He early became disillusioned because all the holes on paper were sideways and not grouping. He was shooting long bullet target ammo. Someone traded him a box of 55g ammo and immediately he was happy shooting sub moa accuracy. We were all happy to have solved the mystery and that he could go home happy with his new present. Maybe even saved his marriage.
 
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