Bent bolt carrier rails???

Recoil Junkie · #1 12-24-2012, 05:08 PM

Hi guys. I'm a noob here and tried to take off my flash hider on my M&P 15-22 MOE, guess you all know where this is going

Long story, short, I didn't hold the barrel and twisted it inside the "upper receiver" and bent the steel rails that the bolt assembly slides on. I tried to bend them back, but it just doesn't lock into battery as freely as it should. I don't think it's safe to shoot as it is. My question is that I know others have done the same thing, so does anyone have the part number for the steel rails? Or the bolt assembly? Smith told me that I would have to send them the rifle which I don't want to do. I also have to buy a new "upper receiver" but have the part number for it (thanks Brett248Vista). Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Oh, and Merry Christmas!!!!

Majorlk · #2 12-24-2012, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Recoil Junkie

Hi guys. I'm a noob here and tried to take off my flash hider on my M&P 15-22 MOE, guess you all know where this is going

Long story, short, I didn't hold the barrel and twisted it inside the "upper receiver" and bent the steel rails that the bolt assembly slides on. I tried to bend them back, but it just doesn't lock into battery as freely as it should. I don't think it's safe to shoot as it is. My question is that I know others have done the same thing, so does anyone have the part number for the steel rails? Or the bolt assembly? Smith told me that I would have to send them the rifle which I don't want to do. I also have to buy a new "upper receiver" but have the part number for it (thanks Brett248Vista). Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Oh, and Merry Christmas!!!!

S&W will not send you those parts; you will have to return it because they want to inspect the rest of the upper. If you put enough twist on the receiver to bend the rails, I would be afraid of what you also did to the upper itself.

Why do you have to buy a new upper?

Recoil Junkie · #3 12-24-2012, 07:28 PM

Have to buy the new upper receiver due to the barrel twisting in side it. There are slots in the polymer that ears on the barrel index to. When the barrel twisted the ears on the barrel busted out of those slots and now the barrel won't seat properly. I have heard of individuals being able to order the uppers from S&W and I have the part number for it. Maybe they got lucky? Maybe I can too?

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Brett248Vista · #4 12-24-2012, 08:11 PM

Majorlk,

When the breech turns in the upper, the "ears" on the chamber block will chew up the molded in slots inside the upper. In RJ's case, he also had the bolt in the rifle which means that the entire bolt assembly tried to rotate, which results in the ends of the bolt rails getting bent.

Uppers are readily available and I'm sure the bolt rails would be as well, if we had a Part Number. Sadly S&W CS isn't as well versed on the names of the parts as we call them. For example if you call and try to order an "Upper Receiver" they have no idea what that is.. They simply call it the hand guard, which isn't correct terminology in our world.

But if you have the Part Numbers you are golden! Sadly, that's one of the part numbers I do not have!

gdnagle · #5 12-24-2012, 10:01 PM

Try these part number I found here on the forum.
s&w404760000 firing pin :13.00
s&w404770000 firing pin spring :2.00
s&w404780000 pin, coil spring :1.00
s&w315430000 .22 extractor rev :5.00
s&w315610000 extractor spring :1.00
s&w406130000 extractor plunger :5.00
s&w407790000 BLUE bolt spring :?
s&w408300000 15-22 25rd fde :?

stolen from others for continuity
s&w404510000 upper : $19.99

Brett248Vista · #6 12-25-2012, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdnagle

Try these part number I found here on the forum.

Yep I already sent RJ the diagram with PN's.

Majorlk · #7 12-25-2012, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett248Vista

Majorlk,

When the breech turns in the upper, the "ears" on the chamber block will chew up the molded in slots inside the upper. In RJ's case, he also had the bolt in the rifle which means that the entire bolt assembly tried to rotate, which results in the ends of the bolt rails getting bent.

Uppers are readily available and I'm sure the bolt rails would be as well, if we had a Part Number. Sadly S&W CS isn't as well versed on the names of the parts as we call them. For example if you call and try to order an "Upper Receiver" they have no idea what that is.. They simply call it the hand guard, which isn't correct terminology in our world.

But if you have the Part Numbers you are golden! Sadly, that's one of the part numbers I do not have!

I know that. It sounded like he needed another upper, beside the one he probably mangled. The confusion was mine.

Recoil Junkie · #8 12-26-2012, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Majorlk

I know that. It sounded like he needed another upper, beside the one he probably mangled. The confusion was mine.

Thank you guys for all the info/concern. Customer service reps at S&W are out for the holiday until Jan 1, according to the voice message. I'm going to try my hand at getting hold of someone in their Tech department that can possibly help me out with a part number. If I'm successful, I'll post the number for others. Lets keep our fingers crossed...

Recoil Junkie · #9 01-07-2013, 08:10 PM

I've got the "upper receiver" on the way. $26 shipped! Bad thing is the steel bolt guide rails are not sold separately and do not have their own part number, according to a very helpful tech at S&W. That is funny that the firing pin, ejector, guide rod spring, and other small parts do have numbers and are order able. I guess because those parts are the most likely to wear out and need replacing down the road. I think they just don't want to sell the bolt/carrier to the public due to liability. The dreaded lawyer stuff...

I'm sure they do have part numbers, just not for the public to order. I think I've gotten the rails straightened on mine anyway, it slides nicely now. So I'll install the new "upper" and hopefully she runs like new. Fingers crossed!!!

Smitty357 · #10 07-22-2013, 11:48 PM

Did u ever get this problem fixed. My buddy has done the same thing to his and we're trying to figure out what we should order.

Did the upper come complete with everything, just assemble it to the lower and go. Or did u have to take ur existing barrel and assemble it to the upper, blah blah.

Anyone????

How do u replace the bolt rails, if u cant order them. I mean can u order a complete bolt assembly to just replace the whole assembly u have.

Recoil Junkie · #11 07-23-2013, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty357

Did u ever get this problem fixed. My buddy has done the same thing to his and we're trying to figure out what we should order.

Did the upper come complete with everything, just assemble it to the lower and go. Or did u have to take ur existing barrel and assemble it to the upper, blah blah.

Anyone????

How do u replace the bolt rails, if u cant order them. I mean can u order a complete bolt assembly to just replace the whole assembly u have.

I actually did get mine fixed and it runs like a champ now. The upper "receiver" does come stripped. Had to order a Shoo Wrench for the barrel nut and a set of barrel clamps. You have to make sure the barrel is clamped since the barrel nut threads to the barrel assembly and not the receiver.

As for the bent bolt rails, I had zero luck ordering them. Smith wouldn't even sell me a complete bolt carrier assembly due to potential head spacing issues. They wanted me to send in the rifle for repair. I ended up taking the bolt assembly apart and very carefully clamping the bent ends of the steel rails in a vice. Then I bent them carefully back straight. I just went very slowly with a little pressure at a time.

Haven't had an issue since and probably have about 1,000 rounds through it now.

The part number is 404510000 for the " upper receiver", thanks again to Brett248Vista!

Smitty357 · #12 07-23-2013, 10:39 AM

^^ Thank you sir, for shedding some light on it for us.^^

I will take his bolt assembly apart in a day or so and see where the damage lies. I've looked at it and the rails appear bend in the middle (like twisted), but also they are bend on the ends/tips where they slide into the barrel. I'm sure with a little patience i may be able to straighten it all out for him (maybe), lol

SmokeStack Lightning · #13 07-23-2013, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Recoil Junkie

Hi guys. I'm a noob here and tried to take off my flash hider on my M&P 15-22 MOE, guess you all know where this is going

Long story, short, I didn't hold the barrel and twisted it inside the "upper receiver" and bent the steel rails that the bolt assembly slides on. I tried to bend them back, but it just doesn't lock into battery as freely as it should. I don't think it's safe to shoot as it is. My question is that I know others have done the same thing, so does anyone have the part number for the steel rails? Or the bolt assembly? Smith told me that I would have to send them the rifle which I don't want to do. I also have to buy a new "upper receiver" but have the part number for it (thanks Brett248Vista). Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Oh, and Merry Christmas!!!!

So just to be clear,

The damage was done by removing the FH from the barrel while the weapon was fully assembled??

The lower and upper receivers were together when trying to remove the FH??

What is the proper way?? Break the weapon apart, clamp the barrel and have at it???

I'd like to know for future reference, please.

So I don't do the same thang!

Recoil Junkie · #14 07-23-2013, 12:21 PM

I had clamped the fully assembled upper half to a vice block, as would be the proper procedure for any AR-15 rifle. Bolt carrier was in the upper as well. In a 15-22 the barrel feeds through the rear of the upper and is secured with a barrel nut that threads to the barrel, not the upper receiver. So, if you torque the flash hider without clamping the barrel securely the whole barrel assembly at the breech spins inside the plastic upper and breaks off tabs that hold the barrel in place. And if you leave the bolt carrier in the upper while doing this, the front tips of the steel carrier rails get bent because they try to spin with the barrel while the rest of the carrier is held in place by the upper.

Hope that makes sense. Just make sure if you ever remove the muzzle device, clamp the barrel, not the plastic upper receiver! And remove the bolt carrier from the upper! I learned the hard way, so hopefully you won't have to.

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Majorlk · #15 07-23-2013, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeStack Lightning

So just to be clear,

The damage was done by removing the FH from the barrel while the weapon was fully assembled??

The lower and upper receivers were together when trying to remove the FH??

What is the proper way?? Break the weapon apart, clamp the barrel and have at it???

I'd like to know for future reference, please.

So I don't do the same thang!

As has been posted many, many times on this forum, you separate the two receivers, remove the BCG, clamp the barrel in a vice using barrel blocks, and then remove whatever device is on the end of the barrel.

Doing it any other way pretty much guarantees destroying the upper, the BCG and perhaps even the barrel.

Barrel Vise Jaws for Rifle and Pistol Barrels [BVJ-1] - $24.99 : Tacticool22, Tactical .22 Rifle Parts and Accessories

Smitty357 · #16 07-23-2013, 05:19 PM

Ok got his taken down for farther inspection. Appears he twisted the barrel slightly which twisted the end of the bolt rails where they touched the barrel. Beings it was binded up, it twisted those rails pretty good. Anyways, i was able to get it all apart. Twisted the bolt rails back and then bent the end of the rails back. I had to twist the barrel back straight to line up with the bolt once its seated.

Now after a few hundred rounds down range. It seems to work just fine.

Long story short, clamp the barrel in a vise. With a little effort the flash hider will break lose easily. This will save u some PITA later on.

Majorlk · #17 07-23-2013, 05:59 PM

Personally, that rifle should have gone back to S&W for a proper repair. Without a complete disassembly you don't know what damage may have been done to the barrel seat in the upper receiver.

All too often people treat the 15-22 like they do an AR with metal uppers and lowers when it is nothing of the sort. Too many amateur gunsmiths armed with a collection of questionable videos made by other amateur gunsmiths ...

Juvicator · #18 07-23-2013, 07:12 PM

This is happening so often maybe there should be a sticky added for all the "don't do this" situations.

Majorlk · #19 07-23-2013, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juvicator

This is happening so often maybe there should be a sticky added for all the "don't do this" situations.

Yup, and people who don't know what they are doing shouldn't play gunsmith.