Hey guys, writing this because I am looking at purchasing something for my girlfriend who lives with me in Mobile, Alabama. She's home alone at because I am gone and she's talked to me about getting something.
She's 5'5 and weighs 105 pounds. She just started working out and can do 2 pushups and can run to the mailbox. I think that an AR would be easier for her to shoot than a handgun and would be a stepping stone for her to move up to a handgun. Also, It would be really fun to just own as I wouldn't be able to afford to shoot a 5.56/.223 rifle with her.

So is a 15-22 a good start for her (and fun for me) or should I be looking at handguns for her? I also intend to buy myself a 38/9mm handgun or shotgun later on.

It's fun, definitely, and can be a good first rifle, although a simple bolt-action might be better to learn the fundamentals of shooting, if it is new to her.

If she wants a firearm for protection, however, the 15-22 is not what you want (flame shield: activate). Have her take a safety class, maybe find a range where you can rent various handguns, and see what she feels comfortable with. Larger calibers are not always better, if the person using them feels uncomfortable with them (i.e. A .500 Magnum will take care of bears & perps, sure, but your petite girlfriend will not want to handle it).

__________________
This...is my BOOMSTICK

I did some googling for "ar-15 for home defense" as well as a search on this forum for it and it looked somewhat okay. I'd rather have her shoot something small like .22 to where she can actually be accurate.

I guess I could be trying to push the 15-22 because it would be a fun rifle and cheap to practice until I can afford a 5.56/.223 rifle.

I'm going to look into finding a safety class for her. I was going to just show her myself.

the 15-22 with laser and mounted flash light would be awsome for home defense , double tap to the head double tap to the body before he even hits the floor, about 3 rounds to many and prolly get you in trouble hehehe.

"Is a .22lr good enough for ...?" is a loaded question that fuels some crazy debates. I can see the both sides of the argument. I consider myself a "neutral".

This is my opinion, so take it for what it's worth. I strongly believe that defensive capability is a combination of three things:

1. The capability & skill level of the defensive shooter.
2. The caliber used.
3. Shot placement.

While the 15-22 wouldn't be my 1st choice to defend my home, I wouldn't feel uncomfortable using it to defend my home.

• .22lr Low Recoil = Quick Follow Up Shots
• Long sight radius
• Red Dot
• 25 Round Magazines
• Low flash
• Light Weight

All these combined make for an easy to handle rifle. I can place all 25 rounds in that magazine onto someone's head very rapidly.

If your girlfriend has never shot a firearm before, a .22lr rifle is the best way to introduce her to shooting. A larger caliber runs the risk of scaring / souring her to the idea of shooting.

If she gets the necessary training & instruction to be proficient with the 15-22, I don't see any reason for her not to use it for home defense. It's definitely better than a bat.

IMO...

Firearm > No Firearm

I must agree that .22LR's are not the best for home defense. But, if that is all that you have, it's better than dialing 911. My personal choice for home defense is a 12 gauge shotgun. You can get a Mossberg 500 for around $300. Don't worry, with a little practice your girlfriend can handle a shotgun. On the other hand, the M&P 15-22 is one fun gun!!

This is good advice. A 12ga is my primary home defense firearm. If I was concerned that my girlfriend couldn't handle a 12ga, I'd get her a 20ga.

Just keep in mind, a shotgun still needs to be properly aimed. Over a short distance, the shot/pellets won't spread out very far.

Great 1st Rifle, idk about home defense. Maybe just throw a couple Hollow points in or whip out a razor blade like this nut job and get to work.

point to 22 LR ammo - Gun & Game - The Friendliest Gun Forum on the Internet

My wife (5'3", 125lbs) can shoot a 12ga better than I can. It's all about familiarity. Get her out on a range and shooting and she may take to it better than you expect.

The 15-22 would also be an adequate home defense platform for the reasons already given above.

Starting with a shotgun would be my vote for home defense.

Great first rifle. Was my 9 yr old daughter's first rifle and now she shoots 5.56 as well.

To input my 2 cents... If you are considering a 22, get a 22 handgun. Easier to use, easier to access, put a bunch of shots on target, you get the same effect as the 15-22.

To me, low light sites are better than a laser. A laser pin points your location. Low light sight allow for quick aligning on target.

But to each his own. My main HD weapon, S&W automatic, 16 plus 1 in 9mm, with Tru Dot Tritium night sites.

As stated before, a .22 is better than nothing or a bat, but I'd prefer a handgun. There is another page on this forum about what happens to the body by different calibers. .22 will tear s*** up and put a damper on anyone's day.

"All these combined make for an easy to handle rifle. I can place all 25 rounds in that magazine onto someone's head very rapidly."

I hope you can explain how you needed to shoot that perp in the head 25 times and not have it turn out badly for you. "Mr. Jones, at what time did you determine the threat had ceased?"

I think a double barrel 20 gauge or even a .410 with the right loads in the face should do the deed. No problem with over penetration, low recoil and blast. If the situation dictates more firepower, then perhaps a higher level of training might be necessary. More gun doesn't mean things are going to go your way unless you know how to use it.

Happy New Year!

Hobie

__________________
Laissez les bons temps roulez!

sorry i have to disagree, If you have the right to shoot somebody than you have the right to kill them. If you dont have the right to kill them then you definatly dont have the right to shoot them. I myself will have no problem facing a jury of my peers after dumping 25 rnds into a perps face. the most i would get is a manslaughter charge, maybe face 2-3 years in the pen but guess what my family and my stuff is alive and well

__________________
psalm 23:4 cause I'm armed

Hey guys....

Hobie, thank you for bringing up a very valid legal point. My intent was to illustrate that with practice, .22lr rounds fired from a 15-22 can be placed on target accurately with quick follow ups. When posting I did not consider the legal consequences of doing so.

Hobie, I believe you go by the same screen name on other firearms forums. If so, I personally consider your posts to be credible and informative.

True_shooter, thank you for defending my position. You do bring up valid points. Alive is better than dead.

I have seen discussions on this topic get quickly heated. An intellectual discussion around the hypotheticals of a multiple shot scenario is a good thing. I've given it thought. If I'm ever really faced with the scenario, god forbid, I'm sure what I will do will be based upon a dynamically changing situation.

First priority is to stay alive. Second priority is to avoid prison.

What I can say is that I will shoot only when there is an immediate threat to my life or an individual I care about. I will shoot only if I am sure that the foreground to & background behind the threat is clear.

I will fire until:

1. The advancing immediate threat to my life is dead ,or incapacitated to the point that he/she is no longer an immediate threat to my life.
   
2. The individual retreats or flees. They are no longer an immediate threat to my life.

To mitigate any legal issues that will arise my planned statement to law enforcement is:

"There was an immediate threat to my life. I apologize officer. I'm experiencing the after effects of this, and I'm a bit shaken up. I will be happy to provide you a statement in the morning, with my lawyer present, after I have had some time to recover."


While I am not the criminal in this situation, I am prepared to be treated as if I were one.

Thank you. My intention of my statement was meant to call attention to the possible legal ramifications of dumping a full magazine into someone's head, not to be mean spirited.

I personally prefer the shotgun approach. Progessively ramp the loads up with intended effect in mind. Escalation of force sort to speak. Remember your loved ones on the other side of the wall and don't accidentally kill them with a overpenetrating load.

Keep the reliance on gizmos to a minimum as they will fail at the worst time. Batteries die, electronics fail. Murphy's laws and all that.

If you do decide on any kind of semi-auto, practice with dummy rounds in the magazine placed at random by your shooting partner to experience stoppages. Learn how to clear, re-load, and re-aquire under tight time constaints until it becomes second nature. Practice practice and yes practice!

Good luck and Happy New Year!!

Hobie

__________________
Laissez les bons temps roulez!

Completely off topic, but I have a question for Hobie.

I agree with the shotgun. I have a Benelli Supernova Tactical with pistol grip because I shoot it better than a regular stock 870 with a bead sight.

I have a stock mag capacity of 4 shells.

What is your opinion of the progression shells to load?

The 15-22 was my first firearm and it's definitely my favorite out of my 3(.22lr, 9mm & 6.5x55 Swede) I'd never sell this thing.

I think that a couple of birdshot(big bb's)and then #1 buck should get their attention. If it were not for shooting through walls, #1 buck all around even though it's not too prone for shoot through. The birdshot in the face should stop the attack but if not, buck them.

Hobie

__________________
Laissez les bons temps roulez!

If she has not fired a gun before or not very often then a S&W M&P 15-22 is not only fun to shoot, but if she learns how to use a 15-22, then she'll be right at home if she ever moves up to the S&W M&P 15 in .223. However, I agree that a .22 is NOT a good home defense gun. I'd get her a .357 revolver for the simple reason that you can shoot BOTH the .38 and the .357 round in a .357 revolver. I'd have her get used to shooting the .38.

__________________
Bill
Retired Airline Captain

Haven't read the entire thread(Just read the first post) but if your looking for a good home defense firearm for her, why not a simple to use, in-expensive pump shotgun with reduced recoil buckshot?

Not to disparage the 15-22, it's a fine rifle, but, it would not be my first choice as an HD device. Since your GF is unskilled in the use of arms my first choice would be to get her to the range with a shotgun with some 2 3/4 in shells loaded with #4 buck, and a .38 caliber handgun loaded with wadcutters and let her make the choice. But a .22 is still far better than no gun at all.

Ya know, with the new buck and ball style .410 defense loads for the Judge and Gov'ner the .410 shotgun looks like a viable HD firearm.


Mossberg HS410 410 18.5

Saiga 410 Shotgun

__________________
Regards,
Guy-Harold Smith II

You guys talked about the legal end of dumping 25 rounds of .22 from an M&P 15-22, what do you think the jury would say if you unloaded four shotgun shells with a ton of BB's in them? Personally to me, I wouldn't use a shotgun for the purpose of what you guys had mentioned about the 25 rounds of .22

Pulled the trigger 25 times or 4 times. Not comparable in my opinion. Assault type rifle...shotgun. Nope, I'd take my chances with the scattergun.

Happy New Year!!

Hobie

__________________
Laissez les bons temps roulez!

The difference is the jury's perception of the incident in a civil trial.

I justifiably and legally defend my life against an armed intruder that presents an immediate threat to my life. If I make it through without the DA pursuing criminal charges, I still may have to face the B.S. of a civil lawsuit brought by the family of the scumbag.

In a civil trial, perception counts. Depending on your area, the pool of potential jurors may not be familiar with firearms. Even worse, the population may be from a geographic area traditionally anti-gun. In this case all that matters is the number of rounds fired, not the caliber fired. To the uninitiated, 4 shots fired in self defense sounds reasonable whereas 25 rounds fired does not.

Hobie can correct me if I'm off base, but I think his point is that it is prudent to consider all aspects of a defensive shooting situation from preparation, action, immediate aftermath, and long term aftermath.

"Hobie can correct me if I'm off base, but I think his point is that it is prudent to consider all aspects of a defensive shooting situation from preparation, action, immediate aftermath, and long term aftermath."

That sums it up nicely.

Hobie

__________________
Laissez les bons temps roulez!

I think there is a lot of confusion about home defense. My first choice would be a secure room with a cell phone, and then access to a weapon. Having a gun doesn't solve the home defense problem, since most guns are in a gun safe and not easy to get at quickly, if you store it legally. It would depend on how quickly she can get to the gun. It really doesn't matter what it is. I have a 15-22, and if I put 2-3 shots in the head or the body, good chance the person will be down, whether a 22 or a 45 acp. The average person looking at the MP 15-22 doesn't know it is not a .223.

A pistol would might be a good/better choice. I keep a revolver in a bedside lockbox with fingerprint lock, so it can open quickly. THis is hard to do with a rifle or a shotgun without a bigger investment. A tactical shotgun it probably the best if you can get to it easily, but it not good for anything else, so if you are looking for something fun and functional I would get a 15-22 or a pistol/revolver.

I would suggest you find a personal defense course for your girl friend, and get her a dog. This is one of the best home defense things you can do. A lot of times you do not have a chance to get to your weapon and a dog will general scare them off before they even enter the house.

THe 15-22 does make for a great first rifle, and it is really fun and cheap to shot. I have one, and put 2-300 rounds thru everytime I take it to the range. I also have a shotgun I use for sporting clays, and I would consider it my backup weapon if I needed one and had the time to get it out of the safe.

Sounds like a pistol is the best bet. One shot, One kill, that's all.

Do you live up in Canada?

While I keep my firearms in a safe, I am not compelled to by law. Even though I don't have children, I keep a pistol in a Gunvault Micro Vault in the bed stand.

If it were only that easy. One shot, one kill would be a a head shot in the "T" zone.

If I am under extreme stress and a blood stream full of adrenalin, I am not confident I would have the fine motor control to pull off a single, precise, moving head shot.

I never fool myself into thinking I'm as good as I wish I was.

I just keep on practicing, hoping to get "good".

Don't bet your life on that theory. Actual one-shot kills are few and far between, even with large-caliber cartridges, unless one has had defensive training in shooting under stress.

The best house gun, IMHO is a 12 gauge with the barrel cut off to 18.5 inches and loaded with 00 buck. Forget bird shot.

Here's my two cents, don't over look the 38 cal. handgun revolver, very low recoil, easy to learn and shoot.

On the M&P 15/22, it too is a good beginner rifle, for beginners on a scale of (Low-Medium-High) for ability to learn weapon skills, the AR platform is in the "Medium". Again one time at the range may not be enough, but you can train "Dry" at home the control functions using "dummy rounds" and learn the skills of the AR controls until you feel she has muscle memoried it to death, then hit the range. With low recoil, and easy uses, she should be feeling good about firearms.. Good luck.