I have been looking at AR's for a long time and have never been in the military but worked in Iraq around alot of military and had chance to fire several different weapons.

Back home now and went to gun store and was going to purchase AR .223, red dot scope, grip, extra Mags and bipod. and salesman asked me a few questions about how much do I like to shoot, where, and how often.

My answers were I like to shoot alot, I have no idea where I can shoot (I live in Alabama and in the city limits) and I would only get to shoot on Sundays due to job and family.

He put the AR back and handed me the S&W M&P 15-22 and said this will meet your needs.

I looked at the price and said is this an air gun?

He explained all the features and that most AR accessories fit the 15-22 and the best part it cost .05 vs .50 to shoot per round.

I purchased the gun and other accessories for less than the AR.

The salesman could have sold me something expensive but based on my needs sold me what works for me.

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I see you. Now it's to late.

I think the salesman did you a favor. I started with my 15-22 based on what a friend had recommended to me, and I am so glad I did.

It costs 1/10th to shoot, you can have just as much fun as a standard AR15, and it operates just the same as AR15s. Pretty much everything that can go on a standard AR15 can be put on the 15-22.

Now if you end up buying an AR15 later on like I did, you will already be familiar with the platform and know how to handle it. Plus, you can still keep the 15-22 to help you save some money. Its a win-win.

Oh, and welcome to the disease.

Since this gun shoots 22LR and is fairly quiet do people still use ear protection and does the PIA factor to even get a supressor make sense to purchase?

I would like to be able to shoot with a supressor in a semi-private area of the woods behind my house without having to drive 20 mile to our local range and not be noticed as much.

I follow the local law which says you can't discharge a firearm in the city limits and this could be a gray area behind my house.

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I see you. Now it's to late.

jrohan,
You don't realize it yet but your in deep,deep trouble! Your going to enjoy shooting your 15-22 so much you'll be out buying a .223 version eventually, they are addictive, so if you have a girlfriend or a wife make sure you take her along when you shoot the 15-22 and get it into her hands ,that way when you buy other stuff for it or another gun, you won't need a divorce attorney!lol My wife has given up on coventional wisdom of saying why do you need that and now says if you buy that I am going out to buy another piece of jewlery! good luck and have fun, this is the cheapest way to practice your shooting skills, with an AR platform!

I would suggest that before you buy an AR that you considder something besides the 5.56 round-possibly the .308 or anything else. I would also strongly encourage you to look at an AR type platform that uses a gas cylinder opperation like the LRWC M-6 IC or the Sig, as opposed to the "direct gas impingement" opperation, there are several. The current issue of shooting times magazine has a good article on the LRWC, and the current issue of Guns Magazine reviews the Sig-but there is much to look at on the web.

Why would you recommend anything other than a 5.56 round? And why would you recommend gas-piston over DI? (I have a piston AR15, but would never say one is better than the other, just different).

I use ear plugs outdoors.

There is no gray area, either your backyard is in the city or in the county. Just make sure there isn't a similar county ordinance preventing discharge.

You bought a fun shooter.

Ear (and Eye) protection are only important to those who want to keep their hearing and eyesight.

Repeated exposure to .22 noise is, in the long run, just as damaging to the hearing as centerfire noise. While you can do what you want, in that regard, on your own property you will be required to have ear and eye protection on any organized range or competition.

Welcome aboard!

We like to call them "pushers"... and you have just been handed your first (complimentary) piece of M&P crack!

Welcome to the club, and embrace the sickness!

Oh, and I wear both ear and eye protection.

Very good feedback and I will take your advise. Range or private hunting land out of the city limits.

Went to lunch and saw this: Amazon.com: Crosman M417 bb/pellet pneumatic pump rifle: Sports & Outdoors

Got it home to surprise my 11 year old and looks close to the real thing next to mine.

I will get another one 15-22 for her 12th bday and we can shoot together as my wife wants nothing to do with guns.

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I see you. Now it's to late.

I don't have a gas piston version, but was told they are cleaner. FWIW. I'm curious too about the 5.56(also able to shoot .223).

.223 here is about .30 a round, .22 is about .03.

I have had both systems gas impingement and the new piston system, 5 colt Hbars and now the S&W AR-15/PSX, if I had to choose right now I would never go back to the gas impingement type gun because the the piston is so smooth and you do not get that annoying twang from the recoil buffer. I have 3 of the S&W Ar-15's and one of them is the 5.45X39 and is extremely cheap to shoot, but the 15-22 can't be beat for the economical reasons, I practice 2 nights a week 50 rounds offhand with that 15-22 and never ever have a problem with it. I will eventually build another upper but haven't decided on caliber yet. I don't think we are going to see ammo cost come down anytime soon so in the meantime different calibers make sense.

I do like the gas piston system. It is cleaner in the action, and thats why I have it. I love the 5.56 round, and the cost does keep me from shooting it as much as my 15-22.

I was just wondering why the previous poster said not to get DI. IMO, DI has it's own benefits over gas piston, it just depends on what you are looking to get out of your rifle.

My real question is why they said go with a .308 before looking at a standard AR15 caliber? .308 will only be more expensive and have less options in terms of firearms, as the AR10s are more rare and usually more expensive.

I will get another one 15-22 for her 12th bday and we can shoot together as my wife wants nothing to do with guns.[/QUOTE]

I bought my son a .22 he shoots with me hes quite a marksman but the bond thats its formed between us is priceless i make sure he wears eye and hearing protection i dont compromise saftey and as far as the wife goes mine was the same way until she shot my .45 cal this was after we had a botched armed attempted home invasion. now she shoots with us she even picked out a gun she wanted me to buy give her time maybe soften her to it by inviting her to spectacte, and remember a family that shoots together has a better chance at protecting themeselve... good luck have fun be safe......

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bodypiercing by Smith&Wesson

I think the person that said to go with a .308 may have been thinking that if you have a lower thats set up for .308 you can put a 5.56 upper on it later but you can't put a .308 on a 5.56 lower. This is the only reasoning that comes to mind. JMHO

As far as I know, you cannot put a 5.56 upper on a .308 lower because the magazine would not fit on the lower. .308 lowers have a longer magazine well in order to fit the 7.62x51mm round as opposed to the 5.56x45mm round. Same is true for the opposite, .308 upper on a 5.56 lower.

If you mean that if the lower is marked with a certain caliber, you cannot put a larger caliber into it, that is a misconception. Caliber markings are not required by the BATF, and so they do not mean anything. You can put whatever caliber you want into a standard AR15 lower, as long as it will physically work. This means 7.62X39mm (AK47 rounds) will also work in AR15 lowers, as long as the upper is built to use them.

ETA: sorry about the thread hijack.

My friend's Sig 516Patrol is a piston system and it twangs from the recoil buffer....

I have not had my piston system apart yet nor the buffer area but my thought is S&W probably used a hydralic buffer and sig didn't. Now you have my curiositie up so I will have to look at it closer.
mn doggie your right i hadn't taken into consideration the magazine length to accept the 308 versus the 5.56, guess the poster had something else in mind! Anyway I just finished building a 5.45X39 which is very similar in size to the 5.56, in fact you can actually use a 5.56 mag it just won't cycle the last couple of rounds. Thanks for the input.

I suggest you read the articles I sight, as well as the other information I suggest, and then make your own choices. As to my own prefferences; I chose an AK-47 format in 7.62X39. Having had that system deployed against me while carrying a gas impingement AR in 5.56, the decision was easy for me. I hope you get what you want.

Will add my .02 cent on the D.I. vs. Piston. Both at least by my standards are fine engineering designs both with pro's and con's. The original AR15 platform was built in the late 50s, and yes we have come a long way and improvements a plenty. So for....

Direct Impingement : Pro's, simple ligher weight works fine for combat. Cleaning of the bolt is needed that considering it is pretty simple to do not an issue. Perfect for AR15 semi-automatic application, for military combat for full automatic operation, bolt can heat up and build up more crud. Con's, it would be just the bolt carrier needs to be cleaned up.

Piston: Pro's, fast bolt carrier doesn't get the hot gases nor powder crud build up mainly on full auto applications. Easier to tune for different typs of shooting (adjustable for a silencer). Con's, adds more weight, requires a new bolt carrier, causes bolt carrier tilt, still needs to be clean at the piston.

.300 AAC Blackout
7.62×35mm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
300 AAC Blackout - YouTube
Another 7.62mm Bullet For M-16s

During the last decade there have been several attempts to get the United States to replace the 5.56mm rifle round with something more powerful. A 6.8mm round was popular for a while but never caught on. Now there's a new round, the 300BLK. This is a 7.62 bullet using a similar size (35mm long) cartridge as the 5.56mm round. Thus, all you need is a new barrel for your M-4 or M-16 rifle. The larger and heavier 7.62mm round is more effective at blasting through walls and doors and many troops believe it has better stopping (of soldiers it hit) power. American troops would sometimes use captured AK-47s (and their 7.62mm ammo) to test this theory. This fed the demand for something like the 300BLK. A year ago, the 300BLK was approved for manufacture, and tests both on and off the battlefield are under way. The 300BLK can use the same magazines as the 5.56mm round.
But the fate of the 6.8mm round should be considered before declaring the 300BLK has a bright future. Six years ago the new 6.8mm rifle round developed for SOCOM (Special Operations Command) became available commercially as the 6.8mm Remington SPC (Special Purpose Cartridge). There were some problems in manufacturing the 6.8mm SPC. Remington began work on the new round in 2002. It used the case from the old Remington .30-.30 (which was not a true .30-.30, as it was rimless). SOCOM began testing the 6.8mm round in M-16s and M-4s modified to accommodate it. The 6.8mm round was more accurate at longer ranges and had more hitting power than the 5.56mm round the M-16 was originally designed for. Out to about 600 meters the 6.8mm round had about the same impact as the heavier 7.62mm round used in sniper rifles and medium machine-guns.

The 6.8mm, 5.56mm, 300BLK, and 7.62x39 AK-47 round are all considered "assault rifle" rounds. This concept of a less powerful rifle round came out of research begun towards the end of World War I. During the 1930s, the Germans studied their World War I experience and concluded that a less powerful and lighter rifle round would be more effective. This resulted in research on a smaller 7mm round, but with World War II fast approaching this effort eventually produced a shortened regular (7.92mm) rifle round. During that war, the Germans developed the first modern assault rifle, the SG-44. This weapon looked a lot like the AK-47 and that was no accident. The SG-44, like the AK-47, used a shortened rifle cartridge that was developed before the war (7.92mm for the Germans, 7.62mm for the Russians, which is still used in the AK-47).

This gave the infantryman an automatic weapon that could still fire fairly accurate shots at targets 100-200 meters away. The SG-44 and the AK-47 had about the same stopping power as the 6.8mm SPC and 300BLK at those shorter ranges. What a coincidence. The AK-47 didn't have the accuracy of higher powered bullets but the Russians didn't see this as a problem, because most troops using it had little marksmanship training. If they had to kill someone they could fire at full auto. The U.S. M-16 and its high speed 5.56mm round, was more accurate than the AK-47 when firing individual shots at shorter ranges. But the wounding power of the 5.56mm (.223 caliber) bullet fell off rapidly at ranges over a hundred meters. The American military, and especially SOCOM, train their troops to fire individual shots and do it with great accuracy at any range. A number of new rifle sights have made it even easier to do and makes first round hits at longer ranges easier to make. This made the longer range shortcomings of the 5.56mm round more obvious.

SOCOM used the 6.8mm round in Iraq and Afghanistan and the troops liked it, but not enough to cause widespread adoption. There was also resistance from senior (non-SOCOM) generals to any consideration for replacing the 5.56mm round with the 6.8mm. To further complicate matters, there was a new 6.5mm “Grendel” round being tested as well and some troops preferred it to the 6.8mm SPC. This was because the 6.5mm round is more accurate than the 6.8mm one at ranges beyond 500 meters. At the moment, no decision has been made about any replacement for the 5.56mm round. The 300BLK is unlikely to change that.

Love my 15-22 for what it is, AR trainer, fun.
Guy22

I don't know who wrote the article, but the cartridge is a .30-30 not .30-.30 and the cartridge was developed by Winchester, not Remington.

Gotta be real careful about what you find in Wikipedia - it's often less than accurate.

The front page of Shooting times shows the LWRC M-6 IC and says that the US military wouldn't get this fine new rifle because of "politics" and further stated that companys entering the trials for the "new" gun being sought by the miluitary were not allowed to submit anything but a rifle that chambered a 5.56 round becaus it was "too expensive" to re-tool Lake city for the 7.62X51 (specifically). That is a very sad situation in my view, to say that it is too expensive to give our military what would be the best available. It would be my wish that even if the 5.56 round was retained, and it evidently will be kicked down the road a little further, that the troups wold get something like the LRWC or the Sig, where heat and dirt won't ultimately cause it to fail in sustained fire situations. Yes, the AR platform has been tweaked down through the years, but it needed, and still needs, much more than that. You can be sure that the enemy our folks face with their AK-47's won't have those issues to deal with, and when the fire fight is over, they will pull a motor oil soaked pair of shoe laces through the bore a couple of times, and ocasionally sluce the gas system out with petrol, shoot some oil on the bolt, etc, and be ready for their next contact. I guess that's why when we went to supply the Iraq troops weapons, they wanted AK's, that we ended up buying for them from China; I guess they were the low bidder! Flapjack.