The gap, or lack of it, is the flat-to-bolt contact; it lies flat against the bolt recess.

DLS- I bought mine in May 2010. I went through the normal processes, different ammo, cleaning, etc. It would run ok sometimes then not. I tried about everything ever suggested on this site. Frustrated I finally sent it back to S&W. I contacted customer service and had a FEDEX return label e-mailed to me the same day. Sent it off and got it back in 15 days, at no cost to me. I don't know what they did, and they didn't say in the return letter. But I have never had a problem since, with any ammo. Also I read somewhere to only load 23 rounds in the mag. This seems to work well.
I only have five 25 round mags. I can run trough them all in no time. No problems.
Smith will make it right for you!!!
Guy22

I don't see any obvious problems in your pictures....that said, the most common reason any semi-action firearm, to "fail to eject", is usually an improper fitting extractor....If you place a fired case in the bolt recess, being held by the extractor, will it stay in place if moved around in your hand? With the bolt reassembled in the gun, Will the fired case stay in place as it is pulled from the chamber until it contacts the ejector? Will the fired case stay in place, pulled from the chamber, until it contacts the ejector with a loaded magazine in place in the gun...It it fails, and the case falls out anywhere along the line then the extractor needs attention as it is not holding the fired case securely enough.....most extractors can be massaged slightly by increasing spring tension and removing a burr or small amount of metal to allow the extractor to press harder on the rim head and thus hold the fired case in place till it contacts the ejector....this is where I'd look first........ best regards Plum

I /can/ place the case precisely in the bolt recess, under the extractor (if careful), and it will stay in place when the bolt is moved around.
Nope. It does pull it out fine (never had a problem that it didn't), as long as the barrel is supporting the case, but falls out as soon as it's free of the barrel. If I tilt the gun 90 degrees so that the ejector port is /down/, the case stays in place until it hits the ejector, but not vertical (normal operation) or at other angles. It seems to be balanced there when pulled out; I certainly can't touch it without it falling. For these tests, I placed the shell/case in the barrel, and released the bolt to slam into place, then pulled back slowly.
Didn't try it with a loaded magazine, as it failed the previous test. So, obviously my extractor is not working properly.

Now, I was fine with bending the ejector this way and that. I'm not even sure how to remove the extractor, or if I should. Should it be sent back to S&W then, or can someone point me to what to do on the web somewhere? It seems to have plenty of spring tension, the area is clear, it moves freely. But I don't know if it needs more or less clearance between the extractor and the bolt face, or less. I don't think I should be changing springs.

I just want to throw this in here as I do in many problem threads blaming ammo makers and ammo in particular, I see it over and over and over. Maybe with this gun in particular(15-22) ammo can be a problem, but I promise you, its not the ammo all the time. Ive got thousands and thousands (probably around 20k tbh) of assorted ammo through another tacticool 22 without any mishaps.

now, to the OP, if you arent comfortable with your 15-22 and working on it yourself, send it in. S&W WILL make it right for you unless you get one of the very few CS reps they have that are completely useless. I wont list names on the forum but dang some of them are awful. haha

You need to send your rifle back to S&W instead of monkeying around with the ejector and/or extractor when you obviously don't know what you are doing. I know that's harsh, but do you want your rifle fixed right or not?

As it is now, you are accomplishing nothing towards having a properly functioning firearm.

Yeah, maybe a bit harsh. If you follow this thread, you'll find when I posted my experiences here, from the beginning, I was told to clean the gun before shooting (I had), to not expect a dirty gun to shoot well (it wasn't dirty), to try different ammo (I did), to try better ammo (I did - CCI AR Tactical was supposedly developed specifically for the S&W M&P 15-22). I was also told that probably the ejector NOT the extractor was not positioned properly, and several people gave reference information, and I even found videos, showing how to do that.

It didn't help. But I don't exactly call following people's suggestions as "monkeying around" nor am I completely incapable of knowing what I'm doing. Until the post about the extractor from Plumbago, giving some specific and helpful steps to check out how it should really work, I feel I acted properly posting here and trying things. But I also know when to quit monkeying around, and I know when to stop when it comes to removing or modifying parts that S&W doesn't even tell you how to remove, so will probably be calling S&W CS tomorrow. But if no one posted here trying to fix their problems, then 1) there would be little need for the forums, and 2) S&W would be inundated with guns people hadn't even tried to troubleshoot.

harsh but i have to agree. i know there are times where i try to fix a problem myself but if i have an easy/sure way out (s&w) after giving it a go, then im humble enough to take it.

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od: xd9 3"&4", 15-22, 1911 .22

I've followed the thread from day one and read as you tried this and that and ignored the several suggestions that something is not right and you should send it to S&W. Instead, you ignore that sage advice and putter around some more, with no better results, even asking about removing parts that aren't user-removable.

And you wonder why patience wears a little thin.

The ONE person who pointed to what is probably the problem, Plumbago, also suggested "most extractors can be massaged slightly by increasing spring tension and removing a burr or small amount of metal to allow the extractor to press harder on the rim head and thus hold the fired case in place till it contacts the ejector....this is where I'd look first". Since everyone else kept talking about ammo and the Ejector, that's where I looked. I don't call that ignoring sage advice. When the advice turned to calling S&W, in fact I did. Now I will again. In fact, 4 days ago /I/ asked if it was time to send the gun to S&W, and other "sages" responded it probably was, along with some other things to try or look at, which I did.

And geez! It just realized was YOUR post that indicated the gap on the ejector looked to be larger than yours, which is the main reason why I went to these extra steps! Here I was thinking it was someone else helping with that advice, but the advice about the gap on the ejector was yours, and when I take it, I get blamed for ignoring advice and not contacting S&W instead!??

Anyhow, I guess you're right. I'll send my gun back to S&W and not bother trying to get help here. At least without getting yelled at.

I don't know who pissed in your Wheaties today Majorlk, but I have read a few of your comments tonight, and I gotta say your are being completely rude to people. The intent of any forum is to communicate with people about their "whatever" the forum is about. If rraisley should have sent the gun back in as soon as he started having trouble with it, why did you tell him to look at the ejector? If everyone sent in their gun as soon as they had a misfire, what would the backlog look like at S&W? People usually join forums so they can become more informed about something, they shouldn't be slammed for asking questions and gaining knowledge.

(1) I made less than a half-dozen posts. My FIRST was to tell him to send the firearm back to S&W. There was no rudeness in anything I posted. Maybe the problem is your comprehension.

(2) I never told him to look at the ejector as the problem. I made a comment that, in his photo, everything looked OK except that the ejector looked elevated. Nowhere did I tell him to monkey with it. It is a non-user adjustable part.

(3) When all other logical possibilities are exhausted, it's time to let the manufacturer deal with it. At least four experienced shooters told the OP that.

And NO ONE was slammed for asking questions! Questions were answered all over the place.

May I suggest that you call S&W, and ask them how to remove the extractor --- and too send you a new extractor and extractor spring, cuz your going to have to learn how to remove the extractor {extractor springs don't last forever} anyway for eventual cleaning down the road. On my 22 AR bolts --- not M&P 22--- you drive out the extractor pin only partway, till you can remove the extractor and the tiny spring. If not... it just might be possible that you may only have to send the bolt back to S&W, instead of the complete rifle. By tweaking the ejector... you have made the metal a little weak, but I would not worry about it.

P.S.: Tell S&W.... that you want a new bolt spring, and possibly a new magazine as well {it just might be the cause}; for all the trouble that you have been through. They will be shipped to you free, I'm sure.

S&W will not do repairs on a single part; you need to send the whole firearm. Otherwise they have no way of checking the functioning of the firearm after the repair. They will also not give you detail-stripping instructions.

FWIW, removal of the extractor, spring and pin are not necessary to clean the bolt.

I've broken my Model "1", 22 dedicated bolt carrier three times, and I never had to send in the complete rifle; just the bolt and carrier. After the extractor spring broke after approx. 35,000 rounds, they just mailed me a new extractor spring and gave me detailed-stripping instructions, and advised that I should clean the extractor ever so often by removing it if I have extraction problems. I mean... what if your extractor spring breaks while you are shooting in a tournament? You better have some extra springs and firing pins, unless you are lucky enough to borrow or have an extra rifle. I cannot believe --- that S&W will not give you detailed-stripping instructions.

My plastic Black Dog magazine lips are getting all worn out --- they jam a live 22 round in the upper reciever during the last five round count of the magazine. I just traded my Polish Tantal WASR88 AK-74 for a Ruger SR-22 which has steel magazine lips. Though... not as fast as an AR safety {forward button on the trigger guard}, I've had zero jams so far.

if s&w fixes the rifle for FREE under warranty, who cares what you have to send back? a 100% functioning rifle is worth it even if you have to pay a little extra return shipping.

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od: xd9 3"&4", 15-22, 1911 .22

Thought I would post my progress, for anyone who may be interested. First, I called Joe at S&W yesterday, and they are sending shipping papers to send it back for repair. But in the meantime, I had "monkeyed" with the Ejector again (description of this is above), because it appeared mine was lower (further away from the bolt) than some others. And since I have to wait for the shipping stuff from S&W, and since I really wanted to know if monkeying with the Ejector helped, I made a quick trip to the range today. Results:

300 rounds fired (150 rounds of Federal Classic, 50 rounds of leftover Federal American Eagle, and 100 rounds CCI AR Tactical). I tried all four magazines, and, and NOT A SINGLE FTE! I did have two failures to feed with the CCI (pics attached), but I was probably getting a bit careless with the magazine loading (it was hot), so attribute that to user error.

Anyhow, I called back S&W Service, talked to John, told him they were sending papers to send the gun back, the problems I'd had previously, and that I'd slightly bent the ejector, and now the problem seems to have gone away. But - the Extractor still does not hold the shell when manually moving the bolt back; it drops as soon as it's clear of the barrel. And - John was quite surprised that moving the ejector around helped the situation.

Anyhow, he suggests that I describe all this, including my attempts to fix the problem and the results, with the gun when it is returned, which I will do.

What's a bit weird, is that even though the extractor is not working properly AT ALL, if the gun shot this way before, I'd never have posted and would just be out shooting it!

BTW, I went and checked my only other .22's: my Browning Medalist, which has never missed a beat in about 40 years, does NOT hold the shell when extracting it, and my Hi Standard Supermatic, which has had feed problems but no extraction/ejection problems, DOES hold the shell securely. Interesting.

Attached Images

	FTF1.jpg (114.4 KB, 49 views)
	FTF2.jpg (114.2 KB, 41 views)

glad to hear you made some progress on it. its always nice to learn something on your own. again, im really looking forward to seeing you shooting without any more issues.

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od: xd9 3"&4", 15-22, 1911 .22

Happy to hear you found some resolution with some of the suggestions that were made!

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Live For Today Not Tomorrow

Well, got my 15-22 back from S&W today. I haven't fired it yet, but it looks like they did absolutely NOTHING. The extractor will still not hold an empty shell when pulled back slowly; it falls into the mag well immediately. As I posted, and explained to them in a letter, reliability was better since I'd bent the ejector, but as it was mentioned here that the extractor should hold the shell, I told them that it wouldn't, and highlighted it in yellow. Along with a highlighted request that they remove the flash suppressor for me, if possible.

They did neither. I called immediately, and talked to Jeff, who checked and indicated that they'd test fired it, and since it fired okay, sent it back. He says the extractor is NOT supposed to hold an empty shell, that his gun doesn't and it doesn't need to. He said that if I wanted, he'd send out new paperwork to send it back, but I asked Why? They didn't do what I asked in the first place? When I mentioned that people on the forums here said the extractor should hold it, he just said you can't trust the Internet, because half the people who act like they know what they're doing are 12 year old kids!

Talk about a waste of time. Hopefully, they haven't screwed up the ejector that I had working well before sending it back. Hope to shoot it shortly to find out.

I just reread every post here. I would be incredibly frustrated too.

I do have a 30 year old Marlin .22 semi auto, now living in the back of the safe. From the day it was new until this day it has FTE issues. The only rounds it will run well with is CCI Mini Mags. It seems to need the hotter charge to cycle properly. Besides the bulk rounds, have you tried Mini Mags? I don't believe I saw them mentioned, sorry if I missed it.

I wish I had more valid input to give you for a fix. All I can say is I must be super lucky. My gun eats anything and everything I run through it. Everything...seventy year old Winchester from my deceased brother in law, blazers, federals, CCI, even garbage Remington, probably 3500 rounds and NOT ONE FTF or FTE. I am telling you this only to let you know they can run that well. I sincerely hope you stay after a fix until yours runs that well.

And + 1 on lead CCI Blazers. They are my go to round. I have zero problems with lead build up. I too, am a hand gun enthusiast. I WILL NOT shoot my friends lead bullet reloads in my hand guns. There is obvious build up and it is not worth the hassle. But CCI Blazers run great in my 15-22 with no additional maintenance over copper plated rounds.

Good luck and keep us posted

I haven't tried CCI Mini Mags. Haven't even tried CCI Blazers yet, not being able to find them after I heard they were okay to fire (not being plated).

Still, I have hopes that the gun will shoot well. It did /before/ I sent it to them, after I bent the ejector, first a bit horizontally, then more vertically. In about 300 rounds, didn't have a single FTE (just 2 FTF with the CCI Tactical). What burns me is the one service rep I talked to said to send it in anyhow, as he agreed that the extractor should hold the shell, then they do nothing and the new guy says it's NOT supposed to hold it.

Anyhow, the proof will be in the "shooting" pudding. If it's still shooting well with no FTEs, then I don't care what the extractor does!

sorry to hear it didnt work out with s&w.

hopefully your tinkering did the job and you'll be running smoothly again.

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od: xd9 3"&4", 15-22, 1911 .22

FWIW, mine doesn't either.

There is an element of truth in that statement.

Same here. I don't think there's anything wrong.

Well, while I probably didn't need to send it back, and my "monkeying around" with the ejector seemed to fix the problem before I sent it to S&W, nothing is any worse, and it went through 300 rounds at the range flawlessly. 25 of them CCI Tactical, the rest Federal Classic bulk. So I guess all is well.

Congratulations. I hope it continues to run as well as mine!

Although I feel for your troubles (and by the way I am having FTF or "mag-snag" every 5-6 rds), I have really enjoyed reading all the opinions for fixes and following your trial and error. Great learning xp for others, just make sure we take opinions with a grain of salt. Good luck bro...oh and i am hitting the range tonight after making some adjustments myself

100 rnds of CCI Mini-Mags last night at the "range" in Miami...only 1 FTF. yay

Yeah, surprisingly, CCI is the only ammo I've ever had a FTF with in my 15-22. FTEs, now, I had with everything, but hopefully they're a thing of the past.

FWIW: my rifle worked fine for a couple K rounds with minimal cleaning. Then it just started misfiring.

FTF, hammer not cocked, etc

Cleaned most everything. No joy.

Finally disassembled and cleaned the trigger group. Wonderful - back to its original "shoot anything " reliability.