I've had my 15-22 for just over a week, and have only gotten to shoot it twice: Indoors with 175 rounds, had one failure of some time but not sure what kind.

Today, at an outdoor range, shot 350 rounds. Seemed reliable for the first 200 or so, then started getting more failure to ejects. Seemed to get worse toward the end, with maybe 6-8 in total. I remember a post here from someone who had a similar problem, and got a new ejector from S&W. With my new MOE, I don't know that that is required, but it makes me wonder.

I'm using Federal Champion copper-plated 1260 fps 36 grain rounds.

Should I be checking something in particular? I was very surprised that the trigger still fired the FP, even when the slide was no where near being in battery(!?). Usually the shells were sideways, but one or two were on end. Also, usually, a new bullet had already fed into the chamber, but the ejecting shell kept the slide from moving all the way forward.

Anyhow, it did occur as the gun got dirtier; should I be concerned? What should I do/check?

if your rifle is firing oob send it back, you probably have spring issues.

this is a safety issue.

Well, at this point, I don't know if it's firing "oob", whatever that means. That's why I'm posting here. If it's adjustment, or dirt, or whatever, I don't want to send it back. Anyhow, people here will know much better than I what to expect, and what to do.

Did you, just by chance, think of cleaning the gun???????

Several hundred rounds of .22 rimfire and you are having extraction/ejection issues? What do you think will happen if you don't clean and lubricate it?

Oob means "out of battery" meaning your rifle fires without the round being in the chamber and the bolt not fully closed. I do not think this is happening to you. You are having failure to eject issues, where rounds aren't fully coming out of the rifle in time.

I think your rifle might just be new and dirty. Clean it well, and keep shooting so everything breaks in. If the problem persists send it to Smith and Wesson for repair.

And BTW, if the bolt is not fully closed, all AR15 triggers will still function. But since the bolt is not seated properly, it is unlikely a round would go off.

you need to clarify what you posted. the fp should not be moving if the bolt isn't closed.

Did you thoroughly clean AND lubricate it before your first session?

Did you thoroughly clean AND lubricate it before your second session?

Once the gang has answers to these questions I'm sure they can help you a lot better.

Using factory magazines? Tried different brands of ammo to see if symptoms change?

Good luck!

__________________
Live For Today Not Tomorrow

provided it was cleaned and lubed properly you should be able to go through 500-1000 rounds of federal bulk with no issues. is the face of the bolt caked up at all?

you could also clean it really well and try another brand of ammo. while it isn't the case for me, some have said they had issues with federal. you could have a picky rifle.

It was new and dirty. Mine had the same symptoms. Every 300 rounds or so I just pull the bolt assembly, give it a quick wipe down and then spray it with some rem oil. Do this for a bit as it breaks in and you will be fine.

So, you're saying that if I want to go to the range to shoot 300-350 rounds, I have to take my cleaning kit with me? If so, this gun is more finicky than others I've shot.

Yes.
Yes
I guess I assumed people would know that I cleaned a new gun, and cleaned after shooting each time.
Only the included 25 round mag at this time.
Thank you. ;-)

Correct, some rounds have failed to eject. But while in that position (empty shell preventing the bolt from going all the way forward), the firing pin definitely will spring forward when the trigger is pulled. When this happens, it feels just like a dud round (trigger pulls, gun goes click, no bang), until I check and then remove the shell. If I don't pull the slide back all the way (sorry about the pistol terminology - this is my first rifle) before continuing, the gun won't fire, as the firing pin is not cocked. That is the main thing that surprised me: that the gun will fire without being fully in battery.
I definitely will. Just wondered if I should do anything else.
Ah, okay, didn't know that. Good to know. On any pistol I have, the trigger will not function until the slide is completely in battery. That makes me feel better. Still surprised, but better. ;-)

Mine was new, but not dirty. Well, okay, if you mean after 300 rounds it was dirty, then yeah, I'd agree. (See how the Internet can lead to misconceptions: I thought by your first sentence you were accusing me of shooting it new without even cleaning and oiling it. Then after your other text, I realize you're just saying it's still a new gun, and was dirty after shooting. So yeah, pulling the bolt assembly, wiping a bit and adding oil, every 300 rounds or so, isn't a bad idea.)

Good advice; thanks.

See, that's what /I/ though.
No, it wasn't bad.
Well, Federal is the most recommended brand in the instruction manual. I'd shoot the cheap CCI stuff, but don't like shooting supersonic lead, preferring jacketed. And I have over a thousand rounds of it. But certainly if the problem persists, I'll try that.

there are winchester bulks (555/m-22) CCI tactical, or mini mags, as well as other brands... Even with the mini mags in 100rd packs, a few hundred rounds shouldn't be more than $20. I would recommend trying something else if only for testing purposes. I would only avoid the specific ones listed to not use in the book.

I had some problems with mine when I first got it I call it the NGS new gun syndrome after about 500 rounds it got better and has been great it just needed to be broke in everything was to stiff.

I would say after a box (550) if it doesnt improve get it looked at by a gunsmith or call S & W.

I had the same. Try tuning your ejector, make sure it runs JUST snug to the bolt but not rubbing. This solved my issues, I went from a clean gun with 2 out of a mag FTE to running 4 mags without a single FTE.

How do I go about tuning or adjusting it?

Very carefully bend it, it does not take much, and you dont want to be bending it back and forth. Baby steps till it just sits off the bolt. Take the upper off the rifle so you can cycle the bolt and watch the ejector, make sure your tweaking the EJECTOR, not the EXTRACTOR. Mine came from the factory screwed up, and since I fixed it, it runs so well I went ahead and made an SBR out of it. Of course, make sure your extractor is grabbing also, I like to use fired shells because that simulates a distorted shell as it would be after being fired, any extractor will pull a fresh round.

Uh, I hate to ask this, but is the EJECTOR the part that sticks out beside the barrel, and is not mounted on the bolt? (I searched for a parts breakdown, but couldn't find one.) And if so, I can see how it could be easily bent (snagged on a bore snake, for example). But I have no idea how or what direction to bend it to make it better.

There's a video I found that I think is showing what you're talking about. It's not clear, but I think I get the idea:

Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 Ejector (Extractor) Fix - YouTube

Yep, thats the piece. You want it to just barely NOT touch the bolt, the dry cycling a round by hand, you will see how to the ejector needs to hit the empty shell.

Okay, using the above information, I bent slightly the ejector to have it run closely to the bolt, and went shooting for the first time after mods last week. I had bought 3 new S&W 25-round mags, in addition to the one that came with the gun, and was using Federal Classic and Federal American Eagle, 36 gr copper jacketed hollow point about equally (hard to buy copper non-hollow point for any decent price).

I got probably an average of 3 or 4 failure-to-ejects with each mag, about equal with each of the ammo types used. Hideous and embarrassing, as my friend, running a much-maligned H&K Umarex, had not one single problem. The problem seemed to get better, the more I shot, and toward the end of about 500 rounds usually got through a mag without a FTE, but not always.

I had cleaned and lubricated, properly I believe, prior to going to the range, using M-Pro cleaner and lube. I may have lubed heavier than necessary (not saying I did, saying I may have), as the dealer I purchased from said they liked to run wet, which I have read here is not true.

I've now tried cleaning/lubing with Eezox, which basically runs dry after cleaning, to see if that helps, but haven't shot that way yet. Now, I only have roughly 1,000 rounds through the gun so far, but I'm sure you'll all agree that this is rather atrocious performance (and far from typical, based on what I've read).

I saw no difference with any of the magazines, the only tendency being to less FTE's the more I shot, leading me to the possible overlubrication as a possibility.

Any other thoughts?

Geez, I dunno. I reassembled my SBR last week, took it out, shot 350 rounds without any issues at all. I run it DRY. I put a drop of clp on the rails where it slides on the bolt and thats it. I know you said it was clean, so I wont harp on that, just make sure there isnt a bunch of crud packed inside the ejector hook. How does it function if you cycle a round by hand? does the round stick at all in the chamber?

No crud anywhere. I didn't cycle a round by hand, so not sure about that (tried that when diagnosing a feeding problem on my Hi-Standard, and ended up with a bullet in my den floor, an irate wife, a red face and almost an end to shooting). The FTE's can end up perpendicular to the bore and flattened, or parallel. It wasn't /dry/, as I said. But I wouldn't have thought a little too much lube (if that's it) would have caused this.

One of the things I do on a new rifle or handgun.. I clean it first with Hopp #9, very very light oil... wipe down dry.. Why, breaking in the weapon with all of its moving parts. It needs to seat itself, let the metal rub and wear itself, break that sucker in is what I'm saying. After about 500 rounds, then clean again, oil, wipe down dry again and do another 500. Then clean and oil her with oil or Tretra Lube or any one of the good gun oils. I do that with all my rifles as well as handguns and never have issues with them.. Good luck.

I was having your issue too with the Federal Bulk packs. I've since switched to CCI Blazer and Winchester M-22 bulk packs and have not had any problems. I've shot over 4,000 rounds through mine over the last two months.

With Failures to Eject? I guess I might have expected more dud rounds or less accuracy, but I'm surprised that the round type would make a difference as to whether it ejects or not. Not saying it doesn't, just that I'm surprised.

May I suggest that you stick with the CCI Blazer 525 bulk round packs if your looking for accuracy and economy as in my "Best Buy."

Federal...has to much velocity deviation in its rounds, which makes it have failure to eject and accuracy problems. Same goes for the Winchester M-22's, in which I was extremely disapointed in its function and accuracy in my 22 dedicated upper's.

I won't use solid lead supersonic rounds. That was beaten into me from my pistol days, and hasn't fallen out yet. I might change my mind in the future, but for now, I feel I need copper jacketed to prevent lead buildup.
I'm very surprised that velocity deviation could cause a failure to eject, when much larger differences between ammo types and manufacturers does not. But I won't say it can't.

[QUOTE=rraisley;136572276]I won't use solid lead supersonic rounds. That was beaten into me from my pistol days, and hasn't fallen out yet. I might change my mind in the future, but for now, I feel I need copper jacketed to prevent lead buildup.

This is so wrong! Teach the old dog new tricks....and try some other ammo variations....it's time to move into the 21 century.....best regards Plum

Modern lead .22 bullets are all lubricated to one degree or another. Winchester uses their lubaloy technology and other manufacturers use something similar, or at least a wax coating. Leading is nowhere near the problem it was even 20 years ago.

UPDATE:

Went shooting today, firing 225 rounds of Federal Champion bulk and 225 rounds of CCI AR Tactical. I had cleaned the gun last time with Eezox, wiping all excess off, and added no other lubricant. The resultant failure to ejects were:

Federal: 11 FTE
CCI: 6 FTE

So, CCI was better than Federal by almost 2:1, but even 6 FTEs in 225 rounds is IMHO way too much.

More concerning, one round when fired felt different after feeding, so I checked the bolt and saw that the bolt had not gone into battery, but was about 1/8" to 1/10" out of battery. Thank goodness I didn't pull the trigger! I ejected it, removed the mag, and inserted it back in manually. It didn't go in the full way. Releasing the slide ended up with it again 1/8" to 1/10" out of battery. I thought at the time it was one of the Federals (wanting to blame the cheaper bulk ammo), but kept the round for measuring and realized after I got home it was one of the CCIs.

I've measured the case and bullet of the round that would not go into battery, as well as others, and found that while the cases seem about the same, the bullet diameter of the round that would not go into battery was about 0.004" larger in diameter (0.227"+ vs 0.223"). And I really do NOT like the idea that the 15-22 would have fired the round that far out of battery. That bothers the hell out of me (and would have done more than that, had I fired it).

So, I've lubed with a quality lube, not over-lubed, tried quality ammo, and still have a problem. 17 FTEs in 450 rounds is not acceptable to me. Time to contact S&W?

Definitely. That really sucks man. They will take care of you, but still...

So, just got off the phone with S&W. The fellow in service told me he felt that 17 FTE in 450 rounds was an acceptable number for a .22! REALLY??? If they feel that is acceptable, then what reason is there to even send it back? He suggested I try CCI SUBSONIC! (despite the fact that the manual says to use absolutely NO subsonic). Do they know what they're doing there??

Sorry, this has me a little hot. I'm beginning to think this was a huge mistake, as I can definitely say I do not enjoy shooting this gun.

Wow, your xp is a bit unsettling. I was just over worrying about oob issues with the 15-22. On the good side I have heard nothing but good things about S&W customer service. Sorry brother

Yeah, I consider the whole thing unsettling. While I'm shooting my 15-22, the fellow with me shot equal rounds on his Colt AR-style and M&P, and other than 1 light strike on the Colt had zero problems. This is downright embarrassing. I just wish I hadn't bought $600 worth of accessories for this gun before I knew about its reliability (or lack of same). Mind you, I know most people here are thrilled with their 15-22s, but mine is headed for the back of the closet.

Good quality pictures of the various parts mentioned by several posters so they can possibly help determine if you've overlooked something?

Also take a camera to the range with you when next you go so you can take some pictures of the stoppages you're encountering to help diagnose those.

I can relate to it sucking but empower yourself in trying to fix the issue(s). Speaking to only one customer service rep. is not the end all/be all.

I'd try the pictures, do some more research, try some other ammo and yes, call S&W back. Get a name, date, time you called as in our day and age, you have to keep a paper trail.

I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that the pictures alone will help solve some or most of the problems. It's worth a shot!

__________________
Live For Today Not Tomorrow

I would tend to agree with the S&W service man --- that you only had 6 FTE's from the CCI's --- is acceptable. The Federal's... with only 11 FTE's --- is also acceptable. It is a blowback gun, and bulk ammo is not made perfect with every round. You have a good feel for the rifle --- when you felt that the bolt did not fully go into battery with the rifle.
It is the OOB's that scare me. I would try to not have many people stand near the ejection port, or your hand on the magazine below the magazine well if an OOB goes off. How far, and how fast, does bits of brass fly from the ejection port from an OOB premature detonation from a 22 rifle or pistol?

I would agree with rraisley, that is too many FTE's. I just shot about 315 rounds mix of Federal Champion bulk and CCI Blazer with 1 FTF and that is all. I think I can count on one hand the amount of Failures I have had in the approx 2,000 rounds I have put through this rifle, all "cheap" ammo, with none of them being FTE.
Just my $.02

I dont agree with the failures rates. Like I said, 350 rounds downrange last Friday, not one issue. It can be done, its something small, I wish I had that gun here to look at.

The rifle need to go to S&W. It's just that simple.

Agreed. The OP did everything prudent to address the issue on his own. At this point, make use of the best feature of a S&W firearm: the 1 year warranty/limited lifetime service warranty.

__________________
-John

This

And don't take no for an answer. I would have told that guy off, and then asked to speak to his manager or a real enthusiast. In the last two boxes of 500 round Blazer bulk (not 525 value pack) I haven't had a single issue. That shows how it can be, and how it should be.

I think I am going to stick with the CCI Blazers for some time because they do not cause me any problems. I just bought 3,000 of them from Palmetto State Armory for less than $100 including shipping and tax.

As for your issue, I would believe that there is something wrong and you shouldn't take no for an answer fron S&W.

I'm not going to the range with this gun any more, at least until or if S&W "fixes" it. I consider it unreliable and unsafe. But I took a bunch of pictures of the parts, hoping someone can spot something. I would have preferred them inline with this post, with explanations, but that takes a lot of room so figured I'd just upload them. UPDATE: Since I can only load a max of 5 pics, I went back to doing them inline:

This shows the ejector (I'm in the middle of cleaning, so don't get too hung up on that). Figured it was the main thing you'd want to be looking at:


The bolt looks like the corner contacting the hammer is rusty and misshapen; that's apparently a reflection, because it's all rounded nicely and smooth.






This attempts to show the top of the ejector; I see no wear on it to indicate it's been hitting anything.

This pic shows that the ejector is parallel with the ejection slot, and hopefully the bolt. Not sure if it should be, though.

These show the ejector close to the bolt, as recommended.



The barrel and spring in the background are from my M&P 9C, so obviously have nothing to do with this.


I tried to measure the distance between the top of the ejector and the bottom of the bolt where it slides, but have no way of doing it. To me, it is the last thing that could be wrong. It seems like it should be a bit higher, to hit the ejecting shell better, but it is pretty parallel, so I don't know. I estimate about 0.05" clearance between the top of the ejector and the bolt, but that's just a guess.

Anyhow, there it is, in all its ugly glory. I'd love to hear I have something backwards or that the ejector needs bent up to work right. But I'm not holding my breath.

I just took mine apart to compare it to yours and I don't see anything obvious. Any other comments?

I'm not an expert on this subject, but your extractor looks a bit dirty. May I suggest that you get a powerful degreaser {if you have not already}, while wearing eyepro, and spray behind the extractor housing groove. See if the extractor has spring tension. Or... just remove the whole extractor and clean it --- and look and see if the extractor spring is broken or seated properly.

Based solely on the photographs, the bolt and everything associated with it seems clean and in proper order. The tiny bit of residue around the extractor is meaningless. Other than the ejector being slightly separated from the body of the bolt, I don't see anything wrong there, either. On mine, there is virtually no gap between the bolt body and the ejector.

The extractor is free and moves fine, and the spring works. When you mention that on your 15-22, there is virtually no gap between the bolt body and the ejector, do you mean horizontally (which I have adjusted to be as close as possible) or vertically (where I definitely do have a gap, and it does seem to me a bit low compared to the bore)?