Smaller Peep Hole in MOE Rear?

rraisley · Sep 14, 2012

My old eyes are such that I almost need my red dot or scope on my 15-22, but I still like to shoot irons (okay, MBUS plastics). When I was shooting the other day at the range, the fellow shooting irons next to me mentioned that moving the stock back further helped him, making the sight hole smaller. I moved mine back to the last notch, and it helped marginally, but not enough.

The problem is, with or without glasses, the rear peep hole is VERY blurry. I find myself focusing on it as best I can, trying to center the front sight in it, then try to hold that position while trying to aim the whole thing at the target, which is a blur for me as well.

I'm thinking a smaller peep hole in the rear of my MOE sight would help. I'm already using the smaller of the two, but I don't think it's small enough.

Has anyone ever tried to make the hole smaller? Maybe by gluing a short piece of tubing into the larger hole (which I could remove without messing up the smaller hole)? I would also consider a new rear sight, if I knew beforehand that the hole(s) were a good bit smaller AND that it folded as well. It needs to fold like the MBUS to clear my scope. But I'd rather have a cheaper solution, if it would work.

Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Majorlk · Sep 14, 2012

rraisley said:
The problem is, with or without glasses, the rear peep hole is VERY blurry. I find myself focusing on it as best I can, trying to center the front sight in it, then try to hold that position while trying to aim the whole thing at the target, which is a blur for me as well.

You focus on the FRONT sight, not the rear sight; Basic Sight Picture 101.

It is not possible (for 99 percent of shooters) to have the rear sight, front sight and target in focus at the same time, so quit trying.

Juvicator · Sep 14, 2012

Rear sight should be blurry, front sight clear, target somewhat blurry. Do you wear glasses? If so I've heard of some shooters getting "reverse" bifocals for shooting.

rraisley · Sep 14, 2012

Majorlk said:
You focus on the FRONT sight, not the rear sight; Basic Sight Picture 101.

I know that. But in turn, I have to center the front sight in the rear sight's peep. It's so big (relatively) that it's hard to do. So I temporarily TRY to focus on the rear sight, try to center the front sight in it, hold that position, focus on the target, try to center it, and finally focus on the front sight to shoot.

It is not possible (for 99 percent of shooters) to have the rear sight, front sight and target in focus at the same time, so quit trying.

Yeah, I know. And it's a lot easier for pistols. But with the rear sight as blurry as it is, I just feel a smaller hole would at least provide more accuracy. I now find my eye shifting all over the place just to see if I'm aiming anywhere near the target, or if my front sight is anywhere near the center of the rear sight.

Majorlk · Sep 14, 2012

rraisley said:
But with the rear sight as blurry as it is, I just feel a smaller hole would at least provide more accuracy. I now find my eye shifting all over the place just to see if I'm aiming anywhere near the target, or if my front sight is anywhere near the center of the rear sight.

Glue a piece of heavy paper over the hold and then poke a smaller hole in it. Or move the rear sight forward a couple of inches. There's no law that says it has to be at the very rear of the rail.

Juvicator · Sep 14, 2012

I did the neon green front post paint job, it helps my brain "see" that something isn't lined up quicker, the contrast in color helped.

Beuford T. Rimfire · Sep 14, 2012

A small piece of plastic tubing would work. You'd just have to experiment with size.

I thought the whole philosophy behind the ring and post style sights was to get a faster target aquisition based off the premise that your eye was naturally going to center up your target in the "ghosted" circle without you having to even think about this. With that in mind, all one should be really concerned with is the front post's location. The post/POA should theoretically gravitate to the center of the circle anyway.

Ring and post is not the same sighting idea as target-style peep sights. If a peep sight is what you are looking for, I'm sure someone sells a picatinny mounted version for AR's.

rraisley · Sep 14, 2012

Majorlk said:
Glue a piece of heavy paper over the hold and then poke a smaller hole in it.

Excellent idea. A small piece of thick plastic, with a hold drilled in it, would work, and I could start small and work up to what worked, without really damaging anything.

Majorlk · Sep 14, 2012

Juvicator said:
I did the neon green front post paint job, it helps my brain "see" that something isn't lined up quicker, the contrast in color helped.

I use a bright yellow on mine - high contrast against a dark target.

Majorlk · Sep 14, 2012

Beuford T. Rimfire said:
I thought the whole philosophy behind the ring and post style sights was to get a faster target aquisition based off the premise that your eye was naturally going to center up your target in the "ghosted" circle without you having to even think about this. With that in mind, all one should be really concerned with is the front post's location. The post/POA should theoretically gravitate to the center of the circle anyway.

You are absolutely correct.

Ring and post is not the same sighting idea as target-style peep sights. If a peep sight is what you are looking for, I'm sure someone sells a picatinny mounted version for AR's.

You are correct again.

rraisley · Sep 14, 2012

I think part of the problem was that the last time I was shooting, and noticing this, was indoors, where the lighting is not that great. I was shooting on an orange target, with small green bullseye, and really can't see the bullseye at all without magnification. So I'm trying to center the peep hole on the target, and centering the front sight on both. Holding the gun and looking outside through the sights, the peep hole doesn't look so large, now.

Near as I can tell, the hole is about 0.067" in diameter, and the sight radius about 14.25". That means that if held ANYWHERE within the circular sight, it could result in hits within a 4.23" circle at 25 yards, or 17" circle at 100 yards. I shoot somewhat better than that, so obviously I'm somewhat centered in the circle.

I realize this type of sight is intended for rapid target acquisition, but I'm not in that business, being strictly a paper-puncher (as well as golf balls and other such inanimate targets). I guess I really need something more like a target sight. If they make a folding one that isn't /that/ expensive.

Or, I can just be happy with what I'm hitting (and not hitting), and use the red dot and scope when I want to shoot better.

rraisley · Sep 14, 2012

The SR Microsight looks like exactly what I'm looking for, but I'm not sure I'm ready to put out $140 for it, especially as it doesn't fold down. At first glance, it looks like just a smaller size hole (0.040"), but the writeup seems to indicate it has a lens in there as well. I can duplicate the 0.040" hold, but not the lens.

Still, this is pretty much exactly what I'm looking for. If it were cheaper. And if it folded down..... oh well.

Majorlk · Sep 14, 2012

Ring and post iron sights do not work well in low-light situations, nor with targets like that. High contrast (black on white) targets are best in those conditions.

I realize this type of sight is intended for rapid target acquisition, but I'm not in that business, being strictly a paper-puncher (as well as golf balls and other such inanimate targets). I guess I really need something more like a target sight. If they make a folding one that isn't /that/ expensive.

I don't think you are going to find inexpensive target-grade sights that are rail-mountable. Lyman (and Weaver) has excellent match sights, but they are all receiver-mounted. They do have this little item that may be of help to you:

Lyman Products Your Primary Source for Reloading Equipment

Majorlk · Sep 14, 2012

rraisley said:
I can duplicate the 0.040" hold,

Hole is the word you are looking for.

rraisley · Sep 14, 2012

Majorlk said:
They do have this little item that may be of help to you:

Lyman Products Your Primary Source for Reloading Equipment

I actually bought a Merit adjustable iris similar to that, for pistol shooting (darn old eyes). It helped a lot (outdoors, at least), but I had a hard time getting it to adjust to a good position (I seem to look out the very top of my shooting glasses), and it always fell off into the dirt and crud at least once per shooting session. I'm sure it would help outdoors (where there's lots of light) with my rifle as well, but I'd probably have the same problems with it.

And of course, it looks stupid, and ruins the cool factor I have when holding my 15-22.

rraisley · Sep 14, 2012

Majorlk said:
Hole is the word you are looking for.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

rraisley · Sep 14, 2012

rraisley said:
I actually bought a Merit adjustable iris similar to that, for pistol shooting (darn old eyes).

I just got the Merit out to give it a try. Man, I've already got a head ache and a crook in my neck from trying to line up the Merit, mounted on my glasses, with the peep hole, front sight and target, pointing it out the window. And it really reduces the amount of light. Not an option, here, I think.

Beuford T. Rimfire · Sep 14, 2012

If you attempt to make a plastic insert for your sight aperture, you might concider purchasing an oxy-acetlyene torch tip cleaner.... Get the one that looks like a metal pen and has bunches of little drill-bit looking files in it that will insert into a chollet in the end of the pen. Then essentially you have a hand drill that works well on small holes especially in plastic and softer metals. Works great for precise oversizing of holes for custom fit projects. (These things are invaluable when working with ATV's, dirt bikes, etc. that have carb. jets - jet not big enough - just slightly file it out a bit.) Get a small pilot hole in your new aperture, then file it out incrementally until you get the size you prefer.

rraisley · Sep 14, 2012

Beuford T. Rimfire said:
If you attempt to make a plastic insert for your sight aperture, you might concider purchasing an oxy-acetlyene torch tip cleaner.

Good idea. I do have numbered drills down to 0.040", and another set to #80, along with a Dremel and pin-vise, so could use those, I think.

w0ady · Sep 14, 2012

i think the cheap/easy fix is coloring or replacing the front sight post with a fiber optic. the only thing is picking a color that contrasts with most targets you shoot.

if you make the rear sight hole too small, then it will take you longer to align the sights. this may work for slow range shooting but i dont think it helps you in the long run.

Smaller Peep Hole in MOE Rear?

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