I am not trying to be a jerk...

[crazykg85]

But, I am getting annoyed with people commenting on ammo selection with the MP15-22 and the MP22 pistol.

.22lr ammo is inexpensive in general compared to all other calibers. That is what attracts people to .22lr firearms. But there is this movement to put the cheapest possible ammo into a .22lr and that is how shooters are basing their values onto specific firearms. Yes, it is convenient to buy federal bulk or bulk Remington GB.I understand that part. But paying an extra few cents to buy quality .22lr ammunition really isn't spending an inordinate amount of money. Most people who own a semi-auto rim-fire weapon understand that semi-auto rim-fires can be a pain with what ammo will work best in a certain weapon. But whatever, most quality HV .22 will work in almost any firearm that will accept them.

Long story short, people who complain that a firearm is worthless because it doesn't take their Winchester bulk should be kicked. In other words, don't bad mouth my Smith and Wesson .22lr firearms.

As an aside- I commented in the MP Pistol section about the MP22 Pistol that running the cheapest ammo you can find is like going to a junkyard to buy tires for your race car.

[GMC man]

I dont think people here are complaining about the cost of the ammo but what kinds work well with their babies, mine likes federal bulk and CCI mini mags but hates Winchester, I haven't tried any others since I found two kinds she likes the federal bulk does have a few flyers but for the most part are decent shooting ammo which is why I personally use it and being cheaper is a bonus

[crazykg85]

Originally Posted by GMC man

I dont think people here are complaining about the cost of the ammo but what kinds work well with their babies, mine likes federal bulk and CCI mini mags but hates Winchester, I haven't tried any others since I found two kinds she likes the federal bulk does have a few flyers but for the most part are decent shooting ammo which is why I personally use it and being cheaper is a bonus

You mention a couple good points. However, people who don't understand this are casting a misinformed judgements. It has just boiled for me today.

[crazykg85]

I just said I wasn't trying to be a jerk, didn't say I wasn't one

[GMC man]

Originally Posted by crazykg85

You mention a couple good points. However, people who don't understand this are casting a misinformed judgements. It has just boiled for me today.

I understand, I personally get a kick out of people talking like that I just offer a min amount of money for their "Junk rifle" no takers yet tho

[Aceman58]

You bring a good point to the 22LR table, but I look at it from this point of view. This forum, built for 22LR & the M&P 15/22, allows anyone to join who owns the M&P and shoot different kind of ammo, from beginners to intermediate to advance shooters. I think the questions asked and or comments posted coming from all kind of different levels of shooters is still good questions and thus the advance shooters on here can share their knowledge to get this new shooters up on their skills. In other words, "There are no dumb questions".. This is our chance to help bring these folks up to the level that all good shooters need to be. I hope that helps with your frustration, it helps me after laughing and biting my lip... so keepem coming...

[crazykg85]

Originally Posted by Aceman58

You bring a good point to the 22LR table, but I look at it from this point of view. This forum, built for 22LR & the M&P 15/22, allows anyone to join who owns the M&P and shoot different kind of ammo, from beginners to intermediate to advance shooters. I think the questions asked and or comments posted coming from all kind of different levels of shooters is still good questions and thus the advance shooters on here can share their knowledge to get this new shooters up on their skills. In other words, "There are no dumb questions".. This is our chance to help bring these folks up to the level that all good shooters need to be. I hope that helps with your frustration, it helps me after laughing and biting my lip... so keepem coming...

I kind of feel like I just got scolded lol. But seriously, you are correct. I should look at it from a different point of view, what I didn't explain was that someone said if their MP22 didnt start to take federal bulk better, they wouldn't buy "expensive" ammo and would just start shooting their 9mm more. Ignoring that, many people who complain are experienced or just not as knowledgeable about .22lr.

[rraisley]

I'm not cheap, and will spend what I need to, to get what I want. That said, I find it difficult to pay a penny more for something that doesn't give me anything more in return.

Right now, I'm buying pretty cheap ammo ($19-$20 for 525 rounds, Federal Champion), and actually it's not working out that well. So I'm considering CCI Tactical for about double the price. But I will not buy it, unless I see some improvement. Likewise, I refuse to buy any all lead rounds for my 15-22, as my experience, and others' recommendations, is to never shoot lead supersonic; I use lead in my subsonic pistol ammo, but that's it.

Anyhow, my norm is to figure out what I want, and then get the best price I can for it. That may sound cheap to you, and high to others, but it's me.

I doubt anyone here selects cheap ammo (or cheap ANYTHING) if they feel they aren't getting the expected performance from it.

[farmerjohn]

I would not call the 15-22 a race car , more like a Camry . I bought the Performance Center , it is loads of fun and cheap to shoot but not accurate , which is supposed to be the selling point of the PC . I have shot bulk ammo and multiple high quality ammos . But I do feel I broke even with the 2 stage trigger and better stock . If you want accuracy , no failures and quality buy a high quality ar 15 ; shot less if your worried about ammo price and be happier with your rifle .

[Basic]

Originally Posted by crazykg85

I just said I wasn't trying to be a jerk, didn't say I wasn't one

Wow, OK.

CraZy. You do know I was playing off your title correct?
I was not calling names. Im very sorry CraZy.

[Gopher Slayer]

I buy Blazer bulk and have shot several thousand rounds without any issues. I guess I'm cheap and annoying. I couldn't care less. This is the internet.

[4cfed]

Honestly i understand you, my rifle shoots federal bulk 525 just as well as 31grn feddys and velocitors and the occasional viper.. i dont buy mass amounts i buy a 525 a a week or every other,
I have about 900 fed bulk rounds on hand, along with a hand full of remington vipers and federal 31grns, i plink with the bulk ammo along with squirrels, and i use the 1400+ fps stuff for possum and raccoon. The bulk stuff just dont hit as hard as the truncates cone.' Wadcutter' vipers do

[Lineman1]

Well I would consider myself a pretty green shooter. Ever since I've bought the m&p 15-22 I've pretty well gotten consumed by it. So far I've shot federal bulk and cci mini mags threw it and it's shot them both fine the mm seem to shoot a little bit tighter . I'm going to try some Winchester now because I saw another guys post that said he had better luck with them and it was on sale , since I've got three daughters with a fourth one on the way , cost plays into it for me .. On a side note my girls love shooting it too. :-) love the forum guys no jerks here!!!!

[Boxerglocker]

Originally Posted by Gopher Slayer

I buy Blazer bulk and have shot several thousand rounds without any issues. I guess I'm cheap and annoying. I could care less. This is the internet.

40g Blazer is all I have put through my MP 15-22, over 10K. Runs great, keep the BCG lubed and the breach face clean of carbon build up and it runs and runs....

[SavageSmoker]

The M&M 15-22 is not a cheap .22 rifle. There are several options out there that cost far less. Keeping that in mind, I choose to shoot a bit more costly ammo through mine. I started with CCI Tact ammo and was very happy. No issues with the bulk box. I then purchased a 525rnd box of Federal bulk and had three FTE and the gun was noticibly more dirty after using it.

Bottom line...if you want to put inferior fuel into your high performance sports car it will still run, and run very well most of the time. If you want consistence performance that is easier on the machine, spend a little more now and take comfort in the fact that you are putting a top quality product into a top quality machine. It's true...you get what you pay for. But sometimes you have to pay for what you get.

[Aceman58]

Crazykg85, don't worry, I feel your pain... Way to many folks think the 22lr is a toy and not really a weapon..... Many don't take that weapon serious and even laughed at me for purchasing the M&P 15/22... Comments like, "For another $200 you could of had a real AR15".. Worry not, I smile as my ammo budget stays full... The ammo is cheap and easy to get, some perform better than others. For me, even plinking or training, I like to use the best 22LR ammo to reduce jams, FTF and FTE but I still get a few once in a while, again the nature of the 22LR. And true each rifle handles different ammo differently, I was fortunate to receive a 15/22 that eats EVERYTHING including Remington, I guess mine was made on a Wed.... Keep up the good job..

[Kayback]

For $200 more you could have had a real AR, sure. But it probably wouldn't be a hard use gun, it would be a hobby gun.

Currently where I live 5.56mm, and bulk ammo at that, will run you around $1 per round. .22 will cost $0.06 per round.

Even with the cost of an M&P15/22, for a couple of crates of ammo I can literally shoot rimfire hundreds of times more than I can with my center fire guns. Is it exactly the same? No.

But it is close.

There is cheap .22 and there is cost effective .22. There is a difference.

[photoracer]

Me, I don't do "plinking" per say. It is either matches or practice for matches. Sometimes instructing. For matches I use the best ammo the gun likes, which at this point is CCI-Tactical. Win M-22 works OK and it likes Fed 550 bulk so I practice with that when I can get it. It did not like Fed 525 Champion. Turns out they are sized a little longer than Fed 550 and my PC model's match chamber did not like that as well. As for the lead vs. copper clad issue it is a non-issue in .22 regardless of some opinions. The reason the lube is on the ammo is due to that. Once you put 5 rounds thru the barrel it won't matter. I have shot close to or over 15k rounds since I got the gun last July. I have never had to use solvent in the barrel and you should not either. I have only passed a boresnake thru the barrel about every 1-2 months if I get around to it. The only part I clean is the ignition area (bolt, breech, and feedramp) and only lube the rails. Other than that I just shoot it.

[Plumbago]

When someone puts a burr under your saddle, it's sometimes best to get off the horse, before the fun starts.................best regards Plum

[crazykg85]

I appreciate all the responses, but I think I need to make a couple things clear.

I have no issues with bulk ammo from Federal, Remington or Winchester. However, some semi auto rimfires do. Some of the inconveniences of the bulk rounds include Fail To Feed, Fail To Fire, Fail To Eject and other magazine issues. This problem can be corrected by using a higher quality ammunition. My 15-22, whether clean or dirty, lubed or dry, does not eat bulk ammo well and instead of taking a negative stance toward the rifle I understand that this is just an issue with rim fire ammunition so I use HV non bulk ammo because realistically, it is still cheaper than buying a centerfire AR in 5.56.

The Issue I took up was the fact the there are some shooters who are cheap and think the extra .01 to .04 cents a round are not worth it and believe that this Rifle is not worthy of positive words. If your rifle will eat anything, Great! My only issue with that is jealousy!

Just thought I would take some time to clarify this thread.

[hkyplr]

Originally Posted by crazykg85

I appreciate all the responses, but I think I need to make a couple things clear.

I have no issues with bulk ammo from Federal, Remington or Winchester. However, some semi auto rimfires do. Some of the inconveniences of the bulk rounds include Fail To Feed, Fail To Fire, Fail To Eject and other magazine issues. This problem can be corrected by using a higher quality ammunition. My 15-22, whether clean or dirty, lubed or dry, does not eat bulk ammo well and instead of taking a negative stance toward the rifle I understand that this is just an issue with rim fire ammunition so I use HV non bulk ammo because realistically, it is still cheaper than buying a centerfire AR in 5.56.

The Issue I took up was the fact the there are some shooters who are cheap and think the extra .01 to .04 cents a round are not worth it and believe that this Rifle is not worthy of positive words. If your rifle will eat anything, Great! My only issue with that is jealousy!

Just thought I would take some time to clarify this thread.

If some 15-22's will eat anything, like mine so far, and some are picky maybe it is something as simple as an adjustment or two. Not sure, but all things being equal, you would think they would all digest the same ammo.

[crazykg85]

Originally Posted by hkyplr

If some 15-22's will eat anything, like mine so far, and some are picky maybe it is something as simple as an adjustment or two. Not sure, but all things being equal, you would think they would all digest the same ammo.

I had my gunsmith do a once over with my firearm and no issues. Most bulk ammo do not have the waxy covering over the ammo which can lead to issues in the firearm. I have put a lot of ammo through my 15-22, but the cost difference between bulk and non bulk does not hurt my shooting habits. Having a gunsmith make some adjustments might.

[bobbydachin]

I agree with you king and Ace and some others. A .22 is still a rifle no matter what dude tries to get in a "size" contest. ...of course I do wonder how many of the 15-22s bought for "my wife", are really for the husband? At the range I almost feel like I have to admit I did something wrong..."My name is Robert and I'm addicted to shooting a 15-22" oh and I like CCI Mini

[rraisley]

Originally Posted by hkyplr

If some 15-22's will eat anything, like mine so far, and some are picky maybe it is something as simple as an adjustment or two. Not sure, but all things being equal, you would think they would all digest the same ammo.

I agree with that. In fact, when you think about it that way, buying expensive ammo might be just a way to get out of properly adjusting the firearm. ;-)

Of course, I, for one, do not know how to adjust. So today I bought a pack of CCI AR Tactical, and will see if that fixes my FTE problems I'm currently having with the Federal (S&W recommended) ammo. I'm not thrilled at the prospect, though. I guess I am cheap, but I hate to pay twice what other people are paying for the same amount of fun.

[crazykg85]

Originally Posted by Gopher Slayer

Ooooooo....drama.

I got a laugh out of what you said.




I buy Blazer bulk and have shot several thousand rounds without any issues. I guess I'm cheap and annoying. I couldn't care less. This is the internet.

FYI, there was not issue with Member "Basic". A PM was sent to him to clarify. His comment was removed by a moderator. Also, my Rifle loves Blazer bulk- Just not everything else.

[fred5876r]

My Sig 522 has always functioned 100% with Federal bulk pack (except for the occasional dud), but the latest batch I bought has been yielding about 5% duds, so I have switched to CCI AR (for matches, at least), and I just bought a box of Winchester M22 to try.

[Gopher Slayer]

Originally Posted by crazykg85

My 15-22, whether clean or dirty, lubed or dry, does not eat bulk ammo well

It doesn't bother you that mine does (well,most brands), and many others do too? It would bother me, but that's just me I guess.

Originally Posted by crazykg85

FYI, there was not issue with Member "Basic". A PM was sent to him to clarify. His comment was removed by a moderator. Also, my Rifle loves Blazer bulk- Just not everything else.

I understood. Your wink smiley told me that you probably chuckled at his comment too.

[Aceman58]

I did some research on the 22LR and the reason I am only shooting CCI Tactical rounds is as stated below:
1. Designed for semi-auto 22lr rifles like the M&P 15/22
2. Copper plated, no leading in the barrel
3. 40gr bullet, semi's like heavy bullets
4. A tad slower in speed 1200 vs. 1230 on the regular CCI
5. Bullet nose more rounded to help in feeding in the semi's
6. Lightly wax'ed coated to aid in mag feeding
7. Good tight bullet to case mounting, (Winchesters the bullet wiggle in the case, this causes wild flyers durig shooting)

These are reasons I feel the performance is best with this round. For the added $5 bucks, it is money well spent for me.. Give CCI a shot, you may like what you see... I know I do...

[crazykg85]

Originally Posted by fred5876r

My Sig 522 has always functioned 100% with Federal bulk pack (except for the occasional dud), but the latest batch I bought has been yielding about 5% duds, so I have switched to CCI AR (for matches, at least), and I just bought a box of Winchester M22 to try.

The M-22's have worked really well in my rifle. My only issue is finding them and not paying full price or a ton of money in shipping. They are dirtier than some other rounds but they have enough power to keep the action working. I haven't fired the CCI AR Tactical yet, but I shoot a lot of Mini Mags, Stingers and Velocitors for various purposes.

[deallad]

My 15-22 loves aguilla hv stuff and shoots sub 1/2 groups at 50 yards, though it take just about anything i've put through it, the Fed bulk was good but a few flyers Fiocchi was good too but made the gun really dirty CCI Mini mag was good but there was always a flyer too.

So all in all Aguilla for target comps and cci mini mag for hunting

[Teruteru314]

Fellows, I can't stop grinning ...
Around here, 100 CCI Hi Speed cost 14 US$ (same as Winchesters), and CCI Standard 18 US$.
We certainly look very closely .22 LR bullet performances. The biggest problem is that we don't have too much to choose from.

[crofoot629]

My Spikes Tactical was manufactured to run best with Federal Bulk Pack per Spikes.
It also runs great with my AAC Element Can and bulk Federal.

And it runs extremely well. I save the Mini Mags for my more finicky Marvels 1911 conversion which it eats best IMHO.

Emory

[w0ady]

my gun has shot mini-mags, federal bulk and champion without issue. ive got a box of tactical to try out as well. that will probably be my long range ammo and i will stick to champion for indoor as i like to buy up somewhat.

[GypsmJim]

I reload 26 calibers and have had 100% success with my home brews. In recent years I started to shoot more .22s because my wife likes them more. I used to shoot nothing but CCI, but then for Christmas one year I got a box of Fed bulk 550s from my son. Tried them in all my revolvers and naturally they worked good. Then tried them in several semi-auto pistols that were previously problematic and they worked great there too. They are 100% in my 15-22 (can't even remember a misfire or ftf). Recently bought my wife a new Ruger SR-22 and it has fired the Feds 100% out of the box.

Short story long, my ammo box now has many thousands of Federal 550's that I got last Fall at Gander for $15 a box and haven't had a complaint so far.

OTOH, you couldn't give me anything Remington for free. The last brick I bought at at least 50% misfires in a revolver!

[mn_doggie]

Originally Posted by photoracer

Me, I don't do "plinking" per say. It is either matches or practice for matches. Sometimes instructing. For matches I use the best ammo the gun likes, which at this point is CCI-Tactical. Win M-22 works OK and it likes Fed 550 bulk so I practice with that when I can get it. It did not like Fed 525 Champion. Turns out they are sized a little longer than Fed 550 and my PC model's match chamber did not like that as well. As for the lead vs. copper clad issue it is a non-issue in .22 regardless of some opinions. The reason the lube is on the ammo is due to that. Once you put 5 rounds thru the barrel it won't matter. I have shot close to or over 15k rounds since I got the gun last July. I have never had to use solvent in the barrel and you should not either. I have only passed a boresnake thru the barrel about every 1-2 months if I get around to it. The only part I clean is the ignition area (bolt, breech, and feedramp) and only lube the rails. Other than that I just shoot it.

OK, now your freaking me out....

I have several thousand rounds of Federal bulk ammo. I thought they were all pretty much the same with just different packages for different stores. Walmart sells the 550 boxes. I've purchased Fed 525 and Fed 375 at Cabelas. All are copper plated hp rounds at 36 grs. While I haven't taken a micrometer to them to verify (some are still unopened boxes) you are finding differences in sizing.... Have you ever used the 325 round bulk Fed?

I do see that they have different load numbers (750, 755 and 775) but Federal's website doesn't elaborate.

[Majorlk]

Originally Posted by mn_doggie

OK, now your freaking me out....

I have several thousand rounds of Federal bulk ammo. I thought they were all pretty much the same with just different packages for different stores. Walmart sells the 550 boxes. I've purchased Fed 525 and Fed 325 at Cabelas. All are copper plated hp rounds at 36 grs. While I haven't taken a micrometer to them to verify (some are still unopened boxes) you are finding differences in sizing.... Have you ever used the 325 round bulk Fed?

I do see that they have different load numbers (750, 755 and 775) but Federal's website doesn't elaborate.

As far as I can find out, the only differences are the packaging, quantity and the end retailer. The ballistic data is exactly the same. I have shot the 525 (about 5k so far, with another 18k on the shelf) and a couple of boxes of the 325. Absolutely ZERO difference in performance, including accuracy.

[Kuhndog86]

I just bought my M&P 15-22 a few days ago, so far I have only ran 100 rds through it and had 4 Fail to Feed! The first 50 I ran through were cheap Federal Lightning and they did it twice, the next 50 were CCI Mini Mags and they did it twice as well.

I noticed when loading the magazine that everyonce in a while the top round would lay flat at the top rather than at an angle. That round seems to be sticking. A simple smack usually fixes it but im thinking it is the main reason for the failure to feed. Everytime I load I make sure the rounds are staggered in the mag.

Im new to the AR world and im trying to figure out if its me or the weapon. Any suggestions?

[rraisley]

The 15-22 magazines are VERY touchy. While I have found that they stagger, as they're supposed to, pretty naturally, if the round does not stick up (as you say), it will not feed. So, you have to be sure each round is "just so" before proceeding. Unlike my shooting buddies Umarex Colt & HK, which he seems to just dump into the mag, and they "just fire".

I think this must be why people buy SO MANY magazines: so they can load them slowly at home, and not have to worry about it at the range.

[OKLAHOMAMOSES]

I'm with you on this one crazy, i've seen it in forum posts here and on others, (***) won't shoot any thing but Zombie certified 40grn round nose titanium dipped aus8 stainless 22lr in the inconvient 10 round boxes ,manufactured in the Higgs Boson skunk works underground facility in Parhump Nevada! It's a $400.00+ rifle that some eat anything and others have more desciminating tastes. I have two ruger mkIII 22/45's bought the same day for me and jr, his will fire matchsticks if you could load them, mine turns it's nose up at every thing but,(wait for it) federal brown box chinamart special. If they get to the point that the difference between a $17.95 bulk box and one at $25.00 qualifies them sending the offending *** down the road, please find my email addy and i will send you the money through paypal. OBTW, i've got a 34 year old mini 14 that is a tack driver in the 42-55 grain area, 60 and up and it throws rounds out like they are shaped like triangles.

[OKLAHOMAMOSES]

OBTW, yes i own a 15/22 smith with the blue spring, 1500+ rounds and still loving it.

[w0ady]

ive never had a problem with my 15-22 magazines and i dont do anything special for loading. i only have 2 that i load twice each time i go shoot. ive shot 600 rounds so thats 12 times ive loaded each at the range without issues.

stand it vertically on the range table, pull down tabs with left thumb and forefinger, slide round in backwards with right hand. repeat 24 more times and fire. at least thats my experience.

[Gopher Slayer]

Originally Posted by w0ady

ive never had a problem with my 15-22 magazines and i dont do anything special for loading.

Same here. One at a time, releasing the tabs in between rounds. Otherwise they start to nose dive due to the curvature of the mag and the shape of each round.

[w0ady]

yup pull down just enough to get 1 round in and release after. sometimes i do a quick scan and they alternate well or just enough that ive never had a feed issue.

[Maddmax]

Originally Posted by w0ady

yup pull down just enough to get 1 round in and release after. sometimes i do a quick scan and they alternate well or just enough that ive never had a feed issue.

Works the same for the M&P 22 mags too. I also tap the mag in the palm of my hand (primer side down) to help seat the bullets in the mag. Also helps eliminate feeding problems too.

[w0ady]

ive seen people talk about tapping them but i almost never do.

[rraisley]

Originally Posted by Maddmax

Works the same for the M&P 22 mags too. I also tap the mag in the palm of my hand (primer side down) to help seat the bullets in the mag. Also helps eliminate feeding problems too.

Good idea, I think I'll try that. I've found that sometimes they don't pop up at the front like they should, and I've tried tapping the bottom of the mag, while /slightly/ pulling down on the button seems to help. Your idea will help make sure they're all the way back and seated, which is just as important.

[Gopher Slayer]

That's why I always shoot with a WWII helmet on. I can tap the mag on my head like in the movies.

It does help(hand not helmet). I do it out of habbit because I shoot my AKM a lot with old surplus mags. Two taps down, two taps back. Just make sure the top round doesn't jump out.

[Kuhndog86]

I just ran another 75 through it......this time only 1 fail to feed, this time on the CCI Mini Mags....the next 2 mags ran through perfectly...

So the first 100 through had 4 fail to feed, the next 75 only one.

Is it possible that the weapon just needs to be broken in?

[Majorlk]

Originally Posted by rraisley

The 15-22 magazines are VERY touchy. While I have found that they stagger, as they're supposed to, pretty naturally, if the round does not stick up (as you say), it will not feed. So, you have to be sure each round is "just so" before proceeding. Unlike my shooting buddies Umarex Colt & HK, which he seems to just dump into the mag, and they "just fire".

I think this must be why people buy SO MANY magazines: so they can load them slowly at home, and not have to worry about it at the range.

Can't say I agree with this statement. I find them no touchier that any other magazines I have. I have 11 25-round and 5 10-round (short) and I haven't had the first problem out of any of them. I use the loading method described in the owner's manual and it takes me about a minute per 25-rounder and 25 seconds for a 10-rounder - whether I am sitting on my couch or at the range.

[Majorlk]

Originally Posted by OKLAHOMAMOSES

OBTW, i've got a 34 year old mini 14 that is a tack driver in the 42-55 grain area, 60 and up and it throws rounds out like they are shaped like triangles.

Because the factory rate of twist is too slow for 60+ grain bullets.