Being the first time shooting it, I wanted to run a couple hundred rounds of a few different types of ammo through it.

Sighted it in using Remington Yellow Jacket and despite all the warnings against using some Remington ammo's I had not one problem with it.



2nd ammo I used was Armscor 36 Grain Hollow Point and those shot great. No issues and shot very accurate.



For the 3rd ammo I switched to Winchester Super-X T22 40 Grain Lead Round Nose. After a few shots rounds were suddenly going way off target and all different directions.



Switched to my last ammo thinking maybe those Winchesters were just bad or the rifle didn't like it. My last brand was Federal 22LR 40gr Auto Match. It was all over the target also.



I immediately knew something was wrong with the gun and it wasn't the ammo. I cleared the gun, packed it all up and came home. When I got home, I broke it down and took a look through the barrel. I could see a lot of buildup about 1 to 2 inches beyond the point where the rifling grooves start. I shot some bore cleaner into the barrel and attempted to run a brass brush through it. The brush got stuck at the point where I saw the buildup. Finally was able to push it through and changed over to a .17 brush and worked at the buildup spot and finally broke away some of the build up. It was lead that had built up in the rifling grooves. See pic below of some of the larger pieces (largest piece in the pic is nearly 0.5" long).



Can anyone give me some ideas as to what caused this lead to build up in the rifling? My theory is that there was a shard (or trimming) of lead stuck to one of the bullets from when the bullets were cast and maybe that shard got stuck and then cause every bullet after that to be cut and gouged which caused them to go off target.

Anyone else have this problem with their 15-22's?

Thanks

That's a new one on me. I'd take it out and repeat the tests you did now that it's clean, looking at each round before shooting. If you get the same results, I'd head back to my dealer or direct to SW Customer Service.

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... ed ...

Kinda agree with you cause that's a good chunk of lead... hopefully that was the problem and you took care of it...

That happens every time I use any type of Winchester ammo. From wildcats to M22 it happens within a couple hundred rounds. I know it sounds weird, buys that's the honest truth. I have run up to 2000 rounds of CCI, federal and Remington ammunition in one session on several occasions without any trace of lead fowling. But with any Winchester ammo I loose accuracy and start shooting key holes after 200 rounds or so. It has happened on several occasions with all types of Winchester ammo. Now you couldn't give me a brick of anything made by Winchester. It sucks, but that's how it is. I know others have had good luck with it, but it sounds like your rifle hates it like mine does. So if you stay away from it you will be fine. If you don't believe me, do some testing for yourself. Just don't say I didn't tell you so. Lol.

Yep you got lead build up and looks like the rounds are tumbling. Wildcats did that to me once.

Do yall think it was just the Winchester bullets that were causing the fouling or maybe a piece of trimming from the bullet casting got caught up in the rifling?

Went to the range Saturday. Shot 150 rds of Winchester 555 and 150 rds of M.22. My barrel doesn't even look like I've shot anything. My gun barely looks like it's been fired. With that said, different lot #s can make a difference.

If what you're describing were to happen (an irregular bullet shape or "extra piece" in the casting itself) then you would have noticed it when you put that particular round in the magazine. Unless of course, you loaded your magazines in the dark, wearing winter gloves.

I think that a solid, round-nose lead .22LR bullet is less likely to "shave off" a piece like that, than say a hollow-point bullet. My bet is that it was one or two of the Armscor hollow points, but it's just a swag.

The really important question is did you completely clean and lubricate your rifle before taking it to the range, or did you just shoot it straight out of the box? I'm guessing it had grease and oil in it that should have been removed/wiped down, before blowing a few hundred rounds through it.

Go get yourself some more Winchester ammo and run a couple hundred rounds and it will happen again. Just make sure your prepared to clean your bore again. Then get yourself 1000 rounds of any other brand of ammo and shoot all of it. I bet you that you will have the same results with the Winchester, and no problems with the other brand.

Just an addition here, that if you sight in a rifle and it's shooting fine, but then starts spraying bullets all over the paper, it's your rifle telling you that something's wrong and you need to check it out. Listen, too. If it goes "bang", "bang", "pop", you should stop shooting and check the bore. .22LR ammunition has a long and storied history of squibs, which can turn your rifle into a pipe bomb with the next shot.

That said, I usually put Federal 510 through my M&P15/22 and Ruger 10/22, but I have put a lot of "dubious quality" bulk-pack junk through both of them as well. Neither one seems to be finicky about ammo type or brand. It is good that you're trying several types in your rifle, though. If you're retentive like me, keep a range log for each firearm and write down what it "likes" and "dislikes" in ammunition. If you don't shoot that often or you have a lot of firearms, it's good to write this stuff down, rather than rely on your memory. If you want to take it to the next level, keep a round count on each firearm, as well. It's hard to wear out a barrel - but if you're going to wear one out - it's probably going to be a .22LR barrel.

I never use Winchester ammunition, by the way.

Why would Smith & Wesson recommend Winchester Super X for this rifle if it was so bad (page 10 of the owners manual)? Page 27 states, "preservative and oil should be wiped from the bore, chamber and exposed areas using a clean swab or patch before using the firearm." I suspect the OP didn't read the manual.

I did read the manual and DID clean it. Ran my bore snake, soaked in bore cleaner, through it multiple times on the day I got the gun 3 weeks ago.

I would think I would have noticed the "swag" when loading the bullets also, but there's always a chance something like that may have slipped by. Manual was read-in-full and gun was cleaned thoroughly on the day I got it 3 weeks ago.

I have 900 more rounds of the Winchester and also plenty more of the other brands I listed in my original post.

Now that I have all the fouled lead cleaned out, the only way to figure out if this was a fluke is to go and shoot it again. I'll report back if I have any other issues when I shoot it again.

This is obviously not a problem with every rifle, but mine does this every time with Winchester ammo. That's just the way it is. Before everything went crazy I would run 5,000 to 8,000 rounds through my 15-22 a week. I have close to 80,000 rounds through it. Most of which is CCI blazer. Every single time I have used Winchester ammo, my barrel plugged up like in the OP. Even with the plated M22 rounds. I am a nut about cleaning my guns, so they are spotless after every session. I have run 2000 rounds of CCI blazers in a single session several times with no ill effects. Of course things were dirty as they should be, but no lead deposits. Every time I use Winchester I start shooting key holes after no more than 200 rounds. I have tried this theory 5 times. After the first time I started to keep a log in my range bag and document my findings. This is no B.S. For whatever reason my particular rifle will not run any type of Winchester ammo without leaving lead in the barrel. It really sucks now because of the ammo situation, but I deal with it. I wish I knew why, but its not the end of the world. I prefer CCI products anyway, and my rifle loves them and is extremely accurate with them. Given what I see, the OP is sharing my problem. He should do some testing/documenting himself, but I have a feeling how it will turn out.

It sighted in fine. I was zero'd in at 25 yards and then was taking out clay targets at 100 yards with ease, then suddenly bullets started spraying all over the place when I switched to the Winchester. Then when it continued with a different ammo I knew something was wrong.

I never heard or felt anything differently as far as the "bang" when firing.

Never had any issue with Winchester ammo, and I use M-22 all the time.

One of the first things I did when I got the 15-22 was to put a log notebook in my tactical bag for it.

This incident is already logged into it.

That's good. I can't wait to hear your findings. Make sure to post them. I'm curious to find out.

I agree with you 100%. I for one, would like to hear an update as to what you find.

For what it's worth, I never had any problems with Winchester .22LR ammunition firing or cycling through my rifles, I just don't like all the grit and dirt in the action, afterward. There is something about Winchester rimfire ammo that's like pouring sand into your action. It's filthy.

I don't shoot a lot of Winchester ammo, but I have never experienced any problem with it in my 15-22 or any other firearm.

Exact same thing happened to me - the first time I took it to the range, too. Took me a while to get that lead out! Nice big chunk, just like you.

The next time I went to the range, it didn't happen at all. Was using Remmington both times.

Good for you. That takes care of that problem.

Check your barrel to make sure it is tight. THAT can and has been a problem with a few in the past with the barrel nut working loose. The "all of a sudden" keyhole shot brought that to mind. Along with the problem getting worse. That's where the shaving lead "could" be coming from. Just a thought.

Pull the 4 pronged "plug/end piece" off where the barrel meets the quad rail and see if there is ANY wobble or play in the barrel. If it is loose, Brownell's has a special SHOO wrench to tighten it. Good thing to have/keep in your range bag,home tools if needed. It's a one job only wrench worth it's weight when needed.

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THIS WE'LL DEFEND ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Just so there is no misunderstanding, I am NOT disputing that this happened or that the lead strips did not come out of your rifle.

That said, in 40+ years of shooting I have never experienced anything like what you have. Back in the mid-70s to the early 80s I did have fouling with the old, non-lubricated plain lead projectiles, but nothing that two or three passes with a solvent-soaked brush couldn't remove.

It's a mystery to me, because I never had any particular problem with Winchester ammo, including a couple of boxes of M22 when it first came out.

I also wonder if the problem could have started with these ? I always hated that rib lip the yellow jackets has on the bullet. They worked ok for bolt action single shot... Didn't like them in my 10-22 either,but it would shoot them,so-so.

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THIS WE'LL DEFEND ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

First of all "running your boresnake thru the barrel several times with bore cleaner" is pretty much a no-no with a rimfire. Run the boresnake thru 1 time completely dry and that should be all you need to run up to 2000 rounds thru it with no issues. The inside of the barrel gets plenty of lube from the bullets. As for the rest of the rifle clean the bolt, breech and feed ramp with a good CLP product then only lube the bolt rails. That is all you need to do, period.
Looks more like a bullet separated in the barrel.
I only use good ammo in my 15-22s. And by that I mean mostly copper washed 40g solids with some Fed 550 bulk HPs thrown in for practice. However Win M-22, Fed Lightning, Fed AutoMatch, and just about anything made by CCI works fine. I don't shoot hyper velocity ammo or Remington ammo.

Your cleaning practices sound like a terrible idea to me. First off, a dry boresnake in nearly impossible to pull through the barrel. I ALWAYS use a cleaner/lube when cleaning my barrel, the lube on the bullets has no cleaning properties and should not be used for your actual lube/corrosion prohibiter. I only use a boresnake for a quick cleaning when I'm at the range or just don't have time to do it properly. I also clean more than the bolt, breech and feed ramp. I blow out the FCG, clean everything inside the rifle and everything on the outside of the rifle. Maybe it's just me, but I feel that doing the bare minimum when cleaning my firearms is not good advice, or a good practice.

I'll run with you on this one. I NEVER EVER run ANYTHING DRY cleaning the barrel. NOT A GOOD PRACTICE.

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THIS WE'LL DEFEND ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

I've been cleaning guns from as far back as I can remember which gives me about 30 years experience. I've never once used a dry snake, only and have never heard that mentioned as the proper way to clean any firearm.

Second, please explain the laws of physics that seem to only reside in your gun that states that lead or copper plated bullets and hot, pressurized burning gunpowder somehow turn themselves into the proper lube and the correct amount for the inside of a gun barrel.

That's the craziest thing I've ever heard.



Sent from my Samsung GSIII using Tapatalk

I don't think I could even get a dry snake through my 15-22 lol. It doesnt exactly go through like a knife through warm butter when lightly lubed up.

As cheap as .22 ammo is I shoot strictly 'copper plated' ammo, it is generally more accurate than lead tipped ammo, not to mention cleaner for your bore.

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Maker of The TALON Video Mount

It's ALL lead bullets, plated or not.

I used a bore snake for the first time a few weeks ago. Afterwards I decided to run a patch through with a little Hoppes on it and that thing was black. I'd only use the snake if its all I had, but as far as normal cleaning of my gun it sucks

Your experience is not typical.

BoreSnakes are all I have used since they came out and I have never had your experience on any of my firearms, pistols or rifles.

I find this very humorous. Don't use Winchester, don't use Remington, don't use Federal, don't use CCI. The threads are a familiar pattern with poster after poster condemning a particular brand of ammo based on antidotal information. It really is dependent in the firearm. They are all different , even consecutive serial numbers, and will have their preferences. Just for the record .22 bullets are swaged not cast but that said, I have found lead flashing in the bottom of cartridge boxes, particularly paper cartons. You discovered the accuracy problems while shooting the Winchester but it could have started with the Armscor or even the Yellow Jackets. I have found the Armscor .22 to be dirtier than most. My 15-22 shoots just about anything I put through it and even functions well with the standard velocity CCI Green Label ammo that I would not expect to cycle the action reliably. On the other hand my little Beretta 21A is very particular about what I choose to feed her yet she functions perfectly with the yellow jacket rounds with no signs of fouling. I don't shoot the Yellow Jacket in my 15-22 simply due to their high cost.

I would caulk it up as a one time occurrence and only work on narrowing it down if it occurs again. I would concentrate on finding the rounds that give the best accuracy while having the fewest number of failures to feed, fire or eject. You may discover that there are come rounds that will fail to function with any degree of reliability. Hopefully you will fine 3-4 different rounds that you can rely on for consistant performance. That is something that you and your rifle will need to sort out as time goes by.

video from hoppe's on boresnake. they run it dry.
Hoppe's Boresnake - YouTube

I'm have nothing against Winchester ammo, I am just explaining my experience and problems with it that I have in my 15-22 which are exactly the same as the OP is having. I still use Winchester ammo in my ruger mk 1, it just doesn't work well in my 15-22. Every individual gun will have ammo it likes and dislikes.

I did not intend to be pointing fingers. I just think the situation needs a little bit more analysis.
Cdaniel stated that he shot four different types of ammo and first detected the problem while shooting the third, standard velocity T22 Winchester target ammo. The good news is that it actually cycled the ammo when the rifle is designed to shoot HV .22lr. The fact that it didn't shoot accurately may not be the fault of the ammo any more than the Federal ammo. Actually we have no idea what caused the lead fouling. Slag from any one of the first three Ammo, trash in the bore, pocket fuzz ... the list goes on. The only way he will know is go to the range and shoot one type ammo and see if he has lead fouling at the end of the day. If he does that particular ammo may be the issue. I just wouldn't be so quick to condemn any of them. Sorry for the tone of my previous remarks.

Please see my replies in REDbelow.

You can copy/paste the original quote tag and close quote tag to separate quotes, or highlight text and use the quote button to separate quotes. The way it is now, quoting you won't work.

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Boz

Finally got to get back out to the range and run some rounds through and do some further testing.

I'm glad to report I did not have any troubles with the lead fouling/buildup at the beginning of the rifling like I had the first time I shot it 2 weeks ago.

My plan going into the session was to shoot 100 rounds of each ammo, 25 rounds at a time. I pulled the rear pin, separated the upper from lower after each magazine was finished and inspected the barrel for signs of fouling or buildup.

Here's what I found: (in order of the brands I shot)

Winchester Super-X T22 40 Grain Lead Round Nose: (This was the ammo that I first noticed the trouble with the first time around).

When looking down the barrel after each 25 round mag there was plenty of buildup at the very beginning of the rifling. I ran a brass brush through the barrel and it was just unburned powder residue and not any lead. Otherwise, this ammo shot fine, but I found it to be the least accurate of the 4 brands I shot.

Second ammo I shot was the Federal 22LR 40gr Auto Match: This was the most accurate and clean ammo out of all 4. Each time I looked down the barrel it looked like I had just finished cleaning it with a bore snake and patches. Clean as a whistle!

I did have 1 FTF which also resulted in a FTE with this brand. The bullet stayed in the chamber and I had to run a cleaning rod in from the muzzle to push it out.

Third ammo was the Armscor 36 Grain Hollow Point: I found this to be the 2nd most accurate brand but it is not a clean round though. Each time I looked there were remnants of unburned powder lingering down the full length of the barrel. It wasn't building up at the beginning edge of the rifling like the Winchester was.

I had a couple FTE's which resulted in stove pipes with this ammo.

And the last ammo I shot was the Remington Yellow Jacket: This was the 3rd most accurate out of the 4. In looking down the barrel after each 25 rounds I found it to be the 2nd most dirty of the 4. Like the Winchester, this ammo left buildup at the beginning edge of the rifling but not nearly as badly.

I had a couple of FTF's which each resulted in FTE's and again had to clear the bullets from the chamber by running a cleaning rod down the muzzle.

In all cases of the FTF's I could clearly see the firing pin strike mark on the rim of the case. The bullets just didn't fire nor eject.

Overall I am satisfied with how it shot. Even with the Winchester not being as accurate, I was still hitting a 10" metal plate at 100 yards 9 of 10 shots with it. All other 3 brands were 100% on that same plate.

I will finish shooting my remaining 800 rounds of the Winchester but I do not foresee buying that particular brand again. I do have 2000 rounds of the Winchester M-22 coming and from what I understand it is a Match Grade and much more quality ammo. We'll see how it goes.

Bump... Many of yall asked me to update this post when I was able to get back and run some tests. I just wanted to bump this in case yall didn't see it.