The range officer says "clear weapon", here we tend to be told, remove mag, rack back, show empty chamber, slide forward, squeeze trigger, rack back, insert safety flag.

I believe you are not supposed to pull the trigger on an empty S&W MP 15-22,something about damaging the firing pin.

What do you do over there ?

Either don't pull the trigger or if you can't skip that step you can pull the bolt back about a 1/4" and then pull the trigger.

I think that I understand and even sympathize with the apparent reasoning behind racking the slide twice as many times as needed, and pulling the trigger in between, but it is unnecessary, and with some guns unwise. We often have plastic safety flags (yellow) that actually go into the chamber and even bore. Not always the case with subcalibers.

If a second party sees a clear chamber, and you can get a safety flag into it, it seems enough to me. While some people over here will drop the hammer on an autoloader, I have never heard of requiring it. I suppose that someone somewhere does, but I have been shooting for nearly fifty years, and haven't seen it yet.

Yea, chamber tags are inserted when showing clear on rifles at my range. The RO's should know not to ask rimfires to drop the hammer. I had one once try to force the issue on my S&W model 41 and I wouldn't do it. We actually had to call the RM in charge to come over and resolve the issue. In short the RO was wrong.

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5906,1911 DK #13,M41,422's,745

Dropping the hammer (or striker) on an autoloader, after showing clear, has been required in USPSA/IPSC since at least the mid eighties, I believe IDPA, and Single Stack Society, may require the same. I am surprised you have not seen it, but than you may not shoot either of the two most popular pistol competitive sports in the country.

If you pull the trigger on a 41 that has no magazine nothing happens.

Out here, we just shoot what is loaded, remove the mag and insert the chamber flag.

It will not damage the firing pin to dry fire the 15-22. You're good to go with the RSO's instructions.

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Sappers Lead The Way

My range does not require chamber flags as we actually inspect the chamber to confirm it is empty by shining a flashlight into it.

And, no, dry firing a 15-22 will not damage the firing pin.

I think that you are right. I used to shoot IPSC quite a bit, but probably didn't remember it because (a) it was a centerfire pistol that was not going to be damaged and (b) it was prior to holstering a gun with the slide forward, so it WAS more or less necessary, thus there was no conflict with common sense. The same could not be said of benching a rifle with a flag stuck in it.

This is why I love my gun club. Range master says "CLEAR". I holster my weapon lmfao

I shoot ON the range, not at one... as in pastures. The only range I've ever shot at was for qualifying while serving in the USAF.

However, looks like we follow most of the same procedures as you folks. We always remove the magazine & double rack the bolt, followed by a visual check of the chamber. If possible, the gun is put on safe. Last week when I had a kid shoot the 15-22 for the 1st time, I had to train him on my safety procedures. He was removing the magazine & putting the gun on safe, but failed to visually check the chamber. After a quick explanation, he was perfect from then on.

We never dry fire our guns to verify safety. I'm of the school that any dry fire is not real good for a gun & should be done so sparingly.

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FIDELITAS ET FORTITUDO

I don`t have the 15-22 manual but I was told it says in there not to "dry fire", if its not going to damage the pin what is it going to damage ?. Must be something there, feed ramp ?

1 - the manual is available online from S&W. Didn't one come with your rifle?

2 - the prohibition is a cya liability issue. There's nothing to damage. The firing pin does not extend past the bolt face. It's impossible for it to hit the breech face. It comes nowhere near the feed ramp or anything else except the cartridge rim.

If you fire a 15-22 that has had the upper removed the hammer will slam into the polymer frame and ay damage it.

A put together with all the bits rifle will not be damaged if you dry fire it. There was one or two older designs there the firing pin may hit the breech face when you do this, and damage the pin. A decently designed firearm will not do this.

You can safely dry fire a 15-22 and most other .22's out there.

If you couldn't then you couldn't ever remove the safety or the triger unit.

Unloading and showing clear, slide forward and "trigger to the rear" or "Pull the trigger" is the new IDPA way if saying "Unload show clear, slide forwards and hammer down" because so many modern guns are striker fired.

I don't see the point of hammer down/pull the trigger if you are going to insert a chamber flag anyway. The idea behind it is if the unload and the visual check failed and there is a round in the chamber somehow dropping the hammer will fire it in a safe direction. If you are putting in a chamber flag you aren't going to be able to close the action anyway, and will not be able to fire it even if there is one in there.

On some guns, like the 15-22, opening the action far enough to geta chamber flag in there will cock the hammer again.

KBK

Good grief

I'm sure glad I don't share a range with some of the folks here.
Range rule are range rules, follow them or don't shoot.
RO needs to be listened to, There is not cause for debate on the firing line.
If you wish to challenge range rules or RO do so off the firing line and not with a working RO.
Take your issue up offline in an appropriate manner at the appropriate place.
All of our safety depends on uniform application of range safety rules.

I can't tell you how many times I've had to remind shooters to lock their slide back, swing their cylinder out, and not handle weapons during a cease fire.

The thing is some equipment can't comply with the unload show clear/slide forwards/hammer down commands.

For example un modified BHP's have a magazine safety. No magazine, no dropping the hammer.

Arguing with the RO is sometimes all you can do if they spring surprises on you like trying to insist you hammer down and insert a chamber flag with an uncocked hammer, but when you open the slide you cock the hammer.

I'm now on the line, physically unable to comply with their instructions - how do you get off the line to take it up "in an appropriate manner"?

KBK

Ok guy`s
I think you all have convinced me its o.k. I will tell the RO if I can put a flag in the breach must be empty, or/and I will ease bolt back a little before pulling trigger.
Thanks everyone

Magazines out, actions open, rifles in the rack, step back to the chain link fence before the RO will call all clear to go forward to check you target.

One shot per second max; no rapid fire.

Bill

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GO HOGS

Stupidest rule ever. So glad I don't shoot there.

I have an AK, how do you lock the action open on one of those? They lack BHO, and most BHO's on unmodified AK's are magazine follower based, take out the mag the bolt goes forwards.

KBK

This is why i love living out in the sticks with my own range!

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SaveLivesKeepCiviliansArmed

Agree. However shooting in the country does not mean we are wild & don't follow safety rules... we just use common sense. Also, we are all friends and think likewise about gun safety. However, knowing people as I do, if I were shooting on a public range with goodness knows who next to me, I think I'd want every gun triple cleared & locked away before I ventured out front. I'm not a trusting soul.

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FIDELITAS ET FORTITUDO

Agreed, stupid rule.

On the free Department of Natural Resources range I shoot at in the summer (indoor range does not allow 5.56), it's not the other shooters that we have to worry about. It's the brass rats.
We have one guy who shows up without a firearm and no ear protection, then waits for the shooters to call the line clear to check our targets, then runs in front of the line to grab all the empty shells he can. The last time he was there, we all waited...and waited...and waited some more for him to move back behind the line.
Finally, we called the line hot, everyone confirmed "HOT!", and waited for him to move back. He didn't. So I shouted at him "SIR, line is HOT!". He smiled and waved at me, then kept on picking up brass. I honestly think he expected us to just shoot around him.
I shouted "SIR, you're in front of the line, we're going HOT, you need to move BACK".

To which he replied "Man, F*** you!".

At which point all 20 or so shooters on the line put their hands on their holstered sidearms and stared at him. He quickly got a look of understanding on his face, and grumbling under his breath, moved back behind the line. We commenced shooting, and he got in his truck and left.
The level of complete disregard for his own safety and open angry contempt shown to 20 armed men was absolutely astounding.

Yay public ranges!

I'm afraid that in Mississippi, someone would have shot at the punk. Not to kill but to reset his thinking. I know for a fact my neighbor would.

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FIDELITAS ET FORTITUDO

And in my neck of the woods that would constitute theft.

Just because my brass has fallen on the floor does not make it your brass.

KBK

I have to keep reminding my son not to pick up the brass without first ASKING if they want it. Seems like at our outdoor range, unless they reload, most don't clean up their mess...

Going in front of the line to pick up brass.. Well, the line was hot, you warned him not once but twice. To me, the moment range is declared hot, rounds should be going downrange. A little darwin award wouldn't hurt in that case...

As far as brass falling on the floor... In Nevada, if a chip, money, etc hits the floor, it's the casinos, not yours, and you can be charged with theft if you do pick it up. Just say'in

My range is private, but open to the public on Saturday and Sunday, and the rule is you can only pick up your own brass, unless a shooter says you can pick up theirs. Any brass not picked up is swept up during the Cease Fire and becomes the property of the club.

Since the typical day means 8 hours of shooting in 16 ports, accumulating 10k+ of brass is not uncommon, although this summer has been slower than past years due to ammo availability. Surprisingly, the majority of the shooting is not .22 LR; The majority caliber is .223/5.56. .22 comes in second with 9mm, .45 ACP and .40 S&W combined to come in third.

that was a given

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SaveLivesKeepCiviliansArmed

[QUOTE=Doc Robin;137322673 One shot per second max; no rapid fire.
Bill[/QUOTE]

The Lake City range in Missouri (just down the road from the famous ammo plant) is a state-operated range and has a THREE-SECOND between shot rule! This works well for the fellows practicing for Bullseye competition or the traditionalist with a S&W Model 4 Russian, Colt SAA or Remington Rolling Block but such a deliberate pace nullifies the practical advantages of a (relatively) modern semi-automatic firearm. Even a one-second pause is more than a light-recoiling gun like a 15-22 should need to reacquire the target. No, I don't believe "mag-dumps" should be considered proper range behavior (after participating in a few "mad-minute" events back in another time and place I know how potentially dangerous these can be), but making it impossible to work "double-tap" drills is a frustration that I can do without. I shoot my 15-22 for fun (and nostalgia) but when I work with my carry-guns it's to prepare for serious business that won't be done at the same pace as the Burr/Hamilton duel! I'm just asking for some common sense (though perhaps that is asking too much anymore),

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Vide - Aude - Tace

If someone is shooting a caliber I reload, I always politely ask if they're keeping their brass. Most people don't, and are glad to have me pick it up so they don't have to. For those that are keeping their brass, most times we have a nice chat about what press, powder, primers, they use, which dies they prefer, etc.
Of course, brass pickup ONLY happens when the line is clear, and someone is still downrange at the target stand. When the last shooter starts walking back to his station, my butt is back on the right side of the firing line.
I did have a brass rat get cranky with me one day when she tried picking up 9mm brass around my station, and I politely told her that I was keeping my brass. She looks at me with a hateful glare and said, "Well, it ain't ALL yours!"
"Well, ma'am, since I am the only person shooting on this half of the range today, and there was no pistol brass anywhere when I got here, then yes, actually, it IS all mine."
I don't understand the snotty attitudes these brass rats have towards shooters. It really is like every piece of brass is magically their property once it touches the ground.

I'd hate to see what they'd do if I dropped my wallet or phone.

At my range there is a 6" wide yellow line three feet behind the benches. During a Cease Fire, shooters are not allowed between that line and the shooting benches for any reason, including policing brass. They may, with an RO's permission, reach across with a broom to sweep brass back into the safe area where it can be picked up. They can also pick up brass that is downrange from the benches.

That's what I was talking about, when I pick up brass in front of the firing line. If other shooters are at the range that day, I only do it when the line is clear and at least one person is still downrange at the target stands dickering with their targets. Once the last shooter is finished with their targets and starts walking back to the line, it's time to stop picking up brass. I will not be that guy who makes everyone else wait around, since I'd hate to have to wait on someone else doing the same. It's just common courtesy.
However, some mornings I'll show up at the range and I'll be the only person there, which is nice. I can pick up whatever was left there (which is sometimes a surprising amount) at my leisure.

Our ROs are down range during the CF, and people collecting brass there do it under our supervision. When we tell them the leave down range, the do it immediately. They are allowed one "dragging their feet" warning. A second occurrence gets them ejected from the range. That said, we don't allow non-shooters on the line or down range.

Yeah, we have no non shooters, unless it is the visitors range and they are spectating, even then the numbers are controlled.

All my brass is marked. I reload every caliber. Except 7.62x39mm, it is berdan primed steel case and the cost is low enough that reloading isn't worthwhile.

And .22LR. I don't even swage the cases to form .223 bullets.

But everything else is marked. As an extreme example my .45Colt brass is worth about R3 per case retail. And even more than that realistically because I purchased the last 100 cases available in the country. You touch it and we're gonna have words!

Which would eliminate the issues we have with brass rats at the DNR range. Unfortunately, we don't have ROs there.
But then, we also don't have timed firing restrictions, so you take the good with the bad.