I can understand what you are saying. I can't afford to spend a fortune myself. I am just hoping that I can tolerate the sight picture. If not I don't know what I'll do. And considering that I'm not going to shoot past 75-100 yards I don't think I need anything too expensive. Like I said, I'm hoping my sight picture won't be too bad and tolerable.

Put a bushnell trs-25 on it, you won't be disappointed. They are under $100 and are ideal for the 15-22, small and light. IMO it makes no sense to put a high dollar optic on a 22 rifle. If you need a scope the bug buster scope works well also. It fits the tactical look of the rifle and gets good reviews. Save your money for more ammo

Completely understood. The only concern is my stupid eyes and how my astigmatism will affect the sight.

The car analogy works the other way too... you wouldn't buy a Toyota Corolla and put wheels and tires on it that cost more than the car, yet do nothing to enhance the performance.

I appreciate quality optics, but an Aimpoint, Trijicon, or any other high end red dot is overkill on a M&P 15-22. Yes, I get the trainer idea blah blah blah, but if you were going that route, go with a dedicated upper that goes on your AR 15 lower, so that now you have same weight, same trigger, easier to add the same accessories, etc.

If you have the coin and just want to put these type of things on your plastic plinker, then go for it... but as you said, "the optic should match the rifle, and rifles' duty".

while some might view this rifle as just a "plastic plinker" - i personally view it as just another rifle in the collection.
YES i know it only shoots a small .22lr, slowly.
BUT this rifle can be quickly handed to family member who is unable(or unwilling) to sustain a normal .223/556 rifles weight & recoil = and that family member is now more combat effective with this plastic-plinker, than if they had a 'normal' ar in their hands. this is why i treat this rifle as i would any other. it gets the same care, attention, and accessories as any other weapon. i would rather wait and save, than buy cheap accessories that will stifle my precision.

(end rant. just food for thought)

I have the same issue which forces me to shoot left handed. The same condition makes it hard for me to use magnified scopes. I just sometimes struggle to get a good sight picture.

However, with a red dot, I have no issues... besides still needing to shoot left handed. I have no problem quickly acquiring the target. I have removed my backup folding sights as I just never use them. My old eyes don't sight thru them well & they just take up rail space. For me and my eyes, a red dot is the best option & when I need magnification, I add on my flip to side 3x Primary Arms magnifier.

I suggest starting with a TRS-25. It is a great optic at a great price. Then if you later find a little more jingle in your pocket, then you can add something like the Aimpoint Pro that I use... and love.

I have a TRS-25 sitting around & if you wish, I can send it to you to try out, assuming you don't have access to one locally. Send me a PM if you want to do so.

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I am planning to look at optics this Saturday. Probably won't buy any but at least get to look at them and handle them a bit. My two possibilities right now are the TRS-25 and the Primary Arms MicroDot but I'm not sure. I am also thinking about buying a set of Magpul flip up sights to co-witness but not sure about that as well. BTW, I shoot left handed as well so not sure how that is going to affect the optic.

So, you have a family member who uses this rifle for home defense... How does the Aimpoint, or Trijicon, or anything other high dollar optic increase their "combat effectiveness" over a TRS-25 or a Primary Arms red dot at across the room distances?

The optic could care less which side of the gun you place your face.

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Shoulda figured that out myself! What is the difference between a TRS-25 and PA MicroDot anyway? Can't seem to understand I guess.

Just different brands... Take Jim up on his offer. Mount the TRS-25 up and go shoot it.

Really nice of you to make that offer Jim!

About the same difference as between Pepsi & Coke. Different brands of an almost identical product. I will state I haven't used the PA.

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Mounted on a 15-22... the difference between a $600 Aimpoint H1 and a $99 PA MicroDot for fair weather range purposes is about zero.

The differences would become apparent when you began to thrash the equipment. Dropping the rifle optic first on a rock or smacking up against a tree, inclement weather or dunking it in sea water getting on boat...

Now once you get into magnified optics the clarity, precision adjustment and sheer pleasure of the view with high-end optics for range use can be significant over that of dime store scopes. 1x red dot... not so much.

Actual cost difference? That's debatable. Aimpoint and EOTech retain much of their value. Dime store optics aren't worth hardly anything used. So the real cost difference is negligible.



PA on my 15-22. H1 on my AR.

Thanks for the offer but I don't know when I'll be able to get out to the range. The weather has been nothing but a pain lately and it's been too cold to go out to the range. Usually it's in the 50's to maybe 60's now and it's only in the 40's to maybe 50's.

Ha! In the 70s here with lots of sun. Will be nice for the baby chicks coming tomorrow.

Offer is good if you ever need to see it.

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Best thing you can do. There's alot of well meaning help here but it's not the same as looking at optics hands on...

It's hard to spend money on expensive (good) optics but worth doing. Good stuff you keep even if you don't keep the gun. I call them "forever" parts. They stay around, the cheap stuff just accumulates in drawers or boxes and gets sold off for whatever you can get for it.

Red dots or optics are the salvation of "old eyes". The better stuff has better optics and gives a better sight picture. Important with "old eyes". Younger eyes are much more tolerant of poorer optics...

When you do go looking through various optics make sure you look through some of the higher value ones as well to see if their is any and how much difference between the clarity of the dot.
I have a Burris Fastfire 3 which is by no means inexpensive, but I still get the scrambled eggs effect when looking through it.
I also have the Trijicon Tripower with the red chevron which is very crisp and a Docter RDS which is also a very crisp 7 MOA dot.
Not sure exactly why the Fastfire is not as clear as the others, perhaps the dot size, technology or just the quality in general.

Would a larger dot be better with astigmatisms? If a larger dot would be better would that mean getting a higher quality sight or are there any medium-quality sights that have larger dots?

Heresy!!!!!

Wash your fingers and keyboard with lye soap!!!!

Forget the notion that a high-dollar dot will look better. It won't.

This is a dime store Primary Arms MicroDot. I got this pic by putting the camera lens right up against the optic glass and capped the other side. The dot is perfectly round. But just because the dot is round does not mean that you will see it as such. While looking through the optic you may see a slightly irregular shape, comet with a tail, cluster of grapes or wheel with spokes. Nothing is going to substitute your eyes telling you the truth.

A larger 5moa dot may be better for you, maybe not. An EOTech 1moa dot may be better for you, maybe not. A 3moa dot may be the worst of the worst, maybe not. See above underlined words... read it a few times.. then go back and read it again. . I will say this... I've never heard of a bullseye pistol shooter complaining about an irregular shaped 8moa. But that's a bit large for a rifle shooter and they are holding the dot quite a bit further away too.

The club I shoot with has a bunch of "old eyes" including mine. We pass around guns with red dots on them pretty regularly getting opinions on which ones have, and don't have, crisp dots.

The two consistent "winners" are C-mores and UltraDot Matchdots.

C-More Railway Reflex Sight 8 MOA Red Dot Integral Picatinny Mount

UltraDot Matchdot II Red Dot Sight 30mm Tube 1x 2 4 6 8 MOA Dot

I have 2 15-22s. They're for NSSF (Ruger) Rimfire Challenge. Ones a back-up. They both have C-mores with dots that are crisp appearing to my "old eyes".

just because my weapons are going to be deployed within room distances, doesnt mean they dont see the outside world. i bring my equipment to outdoor ranges all the time; once a month usually. and i also take classes.

In the real world, equipment gets dropped/banged around/falls/bumped/hit/etc. If an $75 optic cant hold up to basic abuse, and still maintain an effective zero = its going to make a good shooter, into a horrible one.
Are cheaper red dots good looking, useful, and practical out of the box? HELL YA. but how is that optic going to perform 6-24 months from now? what if you drop it/hit it = $100 down the toilet. now you go and spend another $100 to replace the optic you just broke(and liked). Well now you are at roughly 50% of an Aimpoint PRO(patrol rifle optic). (laruetactical: $416)

plus: something like an aimpoint also has a 10 year warranty on all of its products (if used for personal use).

i know 1 rule: a rifle is only as good as its zero(and operator). i just cant trust my rifles' zero to just any low-brand optic. id rather just use dependable/trusty irons at that point(and save for a quality optic).

My son has had the Bushnell TRS-25 on his rifle for over three years, since he was 11. It goes to the range, gets thrown in the back of the pickup, thrown in the rack on the jeep, thrown on the four wheeler... bumping around on dirt roads and across pastures at the lease in all of the above vehicles and it still works. Not saying you can't break one, but they are pretty stout and stand up to use and has held zero. His is still working fine. I wouldn't say that we abuse our firearms, but we don't baby them either.

I also have a Millet on my AR-15. I purchased that one on clearance with the expectation that I would try it out to see if I liked using a red dot, and replace it with something better when it dies. Well, it is still on there, and my AR-15 is my hog hunting rifle. It gets the same use as my son's rifle above, but more. Guess what... that Millet dot is still on there. Hasn't died yet.


I guess we will just have to disagree. I bet most .22lr ARs don't see that much "abuse". From range bag to bench, then back to range bag. You may be the exception, but most are not going to see an advantage.

trust me, i am not here to argue or to poo on the lesser priced sights. i just wanted to throw in my point of view for the OP

hey, you just reminded me: scroll to @2:28 in the video
Fighting Rifle Tactical Response - YouTube

Is that you? That looked like an awesome class.

I've one of those on my 10-22 and it works great as well. The longest I ever shoot is 100 yd, so it's fine. Both it and the TRS have held up fine so far, and both rifles get transported in a double bag in the back of the truck cab. They've always held zero and functioned.

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LE6920 M&P 15-22 M&P 9 10-22TD

If you are still considering the StrikeFire, Primary Arms is selling it with a 3x magnifier and both mounts for a package price of $130.

Vortex StrikeFire Bright Red Dot PA Magnifier Bundle

Ya, I have the bushnell on the 15-22 and a bug buster on a Sig 522. The Sig shoots tighter groups for me at 100 yards and I need some magnification at that range so it works well on that rifle. I did have the bug buster on the 15-22 for a while though. I transport both rifles in a double tactical rifle bag to the range and have never had a problem with either the trs-25 or bug buster losing zero either. I really like both

Sounds like a great offer. My only concern for the Vortex is accidentally turning off and on the power since the buttons, etc are basically a projection. I've seen on youtube that it can be mounted so that you can't accidentally turn off and on the power. Otherwise I've heard nothing but good reviews about this.

You are so over thinking this. Keep an extra battery in your range bag... problem solved.

Besides, it has an auto shut off after 6 hours.

Keep in mind some reviews are written regarding using the product on a service rifle... where how the product functions can be a life or death concern.

If your sight was accidentally turned off on a service rifle during an engagement... that would be bad. Having the sight turn off on a 22 plinker, at the range.. no big deal. Just turn it back on. And yes, I keep a spare battery for my optic in the storage compartment of my grip.

Personally, I don't believe it possible to over think anything. Better to learn on a discussion forum than by buying the wrong (expensive) product. I teach my employees the only dumb question is the one not asked.

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Anyone have any experience with the Vortex? Likes/dislikes besides the one I mentioned?

This has been posted before, but will give you some food for thought.

?Budget? Red Dot Sight Comparison ? Part 1 | The Bang Switch

There is a link to part two at the end of part one that gets more to the point...

Rastoff recently posted a review in the M&P 15 forum.

Vortex SPARC Review- Update= not happy

Buy once.. Buy the best.. ACOG ECOS.

Although I personally own an eotech, aimpoint comp 3, ACOG ECOS and 3 Primary Arms mirco dots..

I love the PA Micros for the money.

Sheesh after all the good info given in 2 pages of this thread, nearly 90 posts, and the other threads on this exact same subject, just pick one of the recommended sight-scopes and put it on your rifle. If you don't like it, return it or sell it and try something else. I too think you are over thinking it, any one should work just fine on your rifle

Don't worry about it. Whatever battery operated optic you choose you're going to forget to turn it off anyway. I buy packs of these from Amazon for cheap. Drop em in each gun bag that has a powered optic. Done.

Even thought I haven't seen it or seen through it yet I've decided to buy it once I see it and if my eyes behave. Planning on getting a set of Magpul sights as well. The gun is going to be a gun to go to the range and enjoy. I don't have enough money to spend more than $100-$150 to use on an optic. I'd rather spend the money on ammo or other mods. The help was much appreciated!

Before you decide on the Magpul sights, try the red dot with an absolute co-witness with your fixed sights. A red dot that looks like grapes for me, looks crisp when looking through the small aperture on my A2 style sight. You already have these on the rifle, so there is not an additional cost...

Good idea. Didn't know there was a difference between what the apertures look like on Magpul sights versus the irons I have on the rifle.

I don't know if the apertures are the same size or not, but the fixed sight will force you to look through it, where with a Magpul, you might think it was too busy and just flip it down out of the way. It takes a little practice to look through the rear sight into the red dot... especially with the small aperture and both eyes open.

I supposed it's going to take a bit more practice for me since my eyes work independently from one another. Basically they don't work together.

Try it both ways. If you have to close an eye, then do it. You still may have a clear picture by looking through an aperture though.

I've got the TRS-25 set up to lower 1/3 co-witness. Before I mounted the site I thought I'd like absolute better, so I ordered both the 1" and .83" mounts just in case. Turns out I like the lower 1/3 MUCH better. I run it w/ the standard iron sights. I was thinking about getting the same Magpul BUIS you want, but at this point I don't think I'll bother changing...the standard sights will work fine for me if the Bushnell ever stops working while I'm shooting.

BTW, this is a ****** iPhone pic of mine w/ the brightness set on about 5, getting ready to blow small holes in my microwave.




But then again, maybe someday...cuz we're never through buying things for our 15-22's!

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LE6920 M&P 15-22 M&P 9 10-22TD

Did you take the back sight off your gun? Couldn't see it in the pic.

It is right there in the pic. He is using lower 1/3 co-witness, so he looks over the top of the rear sight.

Got it now.

And here is absolute co-witness...

Pardon the stupid question but how would you switch between the two? Take the riser off the dot?

Yep, you got it... you would change the riser, or remove it all together, depending on red dot sight. It all depends on the difference in height between the center of the rear sight aperture and the rail, vs. the center of the red dot sight lens and the rail.

Think of lower third like this-- Run a string from the center of the rear sight aperture through the scope tube and to the tip of the front sight post. The string would go through the lower 1/3 of the scope tube body. Absolute would be the string going through the middle of the scope tube.

Primary Arms vid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogX-cIx9hpk