Project Appleseed has just initiated a ban/suspension, until further notice, on the use of M&P 15/22 rifles at their shoots.

It seems that there have been some incidents, including one that caused an injury (blessedly not serious, but requiring medical attention). There have been "out of battery" discharges, and "fire on trigger reset" incidents. Probably involving admittedly dirty rifles, but on a 400+ round weekend shoot, rifles will get dirty. Might they have already been somewhat dirty before that started? Sure thing.

But in any case, the Appleseed powers-that-be have made the decision, pending resolution of the problem.

No brickbats thrown at anyone. Contacts with the factory are underway. I have one of these myself and like it, but have had problems. Stay tuned for developments.

Is this with the new sport 15-22 the latest model? Because i have the old version and have never had any issues, such as OOB or trigger issues?

No notes of it being any particular model. Mine is an older one, plain vanilla, not Performance Center or any other special model. And I've experienced occasional misfires (attempting to fire out of battery?) and doubling (firing on trigger reset?).
The problems don't seem to affect every rifle, but are apparently common enough that Appleseed has gotten several reports and has connected enough dots to take this (hopefully!) temporary action.

It would be nice to know if it is new or old model, since I have shot the old models suppressed, fast and dirty and have never had a problem. I have only cleaned one and that was after 1000+ rounds. Thank You for the info and warning. Be Safe,

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I BACK OUR BLUE

Hopefully it won't be a permanent suspension and the problems get resolved. My M&P 15-22 has never had the problems they are talking about so I guess I'm lucky.

99 percent of all such incidents are directly attributable to operator error. Dirty firearms, improper trigger adjustment and such are not the fault of the rifle or its design.

Any such ban is an insult to the 15-22.

My problems might have been from a somewhat dirty rifle, but not super-grungy, and were not due to any modification. Point taken as appropriate.

But this is a TEMPORARY step taken by Appleseed, no insults intended to any rifle or any person.

Let's just let this work out, and keep our cool. It is fervently to be hoped that a resolution will come quickly.

I really LIKE my 15/22. It's a great understudy gun, as well as fun to shoot in its own right. And the adjustable stock makes it a great piece for (supervised as appropriate for their age and experience) youngsters.

BREAKING: M&P 15/22s Banned At Appleseed Events After Out Of Battery and “Run Away” Discharges – Bearing Arms

To: All Appleseed Instructors

Subject: TEMPORARY BAN ON SMITH & WESSON M&P 15/22 USE AT APPLESEED

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, THE USE OF SMITH AND WESSON M&P 15/22’S AT AN APPLESEED IS HEREBY BANNED UNTIL SMITH & WESSON FORMALLY INVESTIGATES THE PROBLEM AND ISSUES AN OFFICIAL CORRECTIVE ACTION. THE AOC WILL NOTIFY THE CADRE WHEN THIS BAN IS LIFTED.

The AOC has received a rash of reports regarding safety issues with the Smith & Wesson M&P 15/22, including a shooter getting injured as a result of an out-of-battery discharge (see reports below).

As responsible Instructors, we have a duty to maintain safety at our events. If we know a rifle to be potentially unsafe, we shouldn’t allow it on the line at all.

At this time the least risk course of action would be to exclude the Smith & Wesson M&P 15/22 from future events until Smith & Wesson formally investigates the problem and issues an official corrective action.

REPORTS TO BE AWARE OF:

Bowie, MD: A shooter (RHS) firing a M&P 15/22 with Remington 22 Thunderbolt Ammo had an out of battery discharge. A Metal Fragment hit the arm of a shooter next to her (LHS) in her right arm. She, did not realize that she had been hit with fragments at first and continued to fire until blood begin to pool (time est. 11:10am) feeling only a warm sting. Instructors rendered first aid applying a compression type bandage to stop the bleeding. Shoot boss suggested that she go to local hospital or emergency clinic. She was able to drive herself to the hospital. They took x-rays of the area and found a fragment deep in her arm. Hospital suggested that she see an Orthopedic surgeon or her Doctor on Monday to have the object removed but surgery should not be required.

Casper, WY: This past weekend we had a student show up with a 15/22. She had been using it pretty regular, since she had also attended our recent boot camp. After about 8 sets of squares, she began to notice the malfunction. Upon careful observation, it was noticed that as she reset the sear the rifle would discharge. We called cease fire and immediately removed this rifle from the line, and replaced it with a loaner.

Once off line, it was field stripped and upon inspection, found that not only was it firing at reset, but also when the safety was engaged. Further inspection found that the trigger pin and the hammer pin were both loose. They both had moved about 1/16th of an inch to the right. Just enough to be loose on the left side of the receiver. The pins were gently hammered back in and function checks performed. After about 3 sets, the hammer pin slid out again.

The rifle was reassembled and tagged out, student was told that 1) the rifle needed to be seen by her gunsmith; or 2) (my recommendation) sent back to the manufacturer for repair/replacement.

Michigan Senior Instructor: The SI wanted to shoot an AQT with his 15/22, but he needed to verify the zero. Another instructor volunteered to take the rifle over to another range, put it on a bench, and confirm zero. While shooting the first string, after pulling the trigger, the extractor shot out the ejection port along with the case and the extractor spring. The case was retrieved and it was observed to be split down the side, indicating that the rifle fired out of battery. Fortunately, the instructor was alone on the range, and no one was injured. The rifle was sent back to S&W, and it was repaired and returned. A copy of one page of the manual was enclosed, highlighting the need to keep the rifle clean and only use certain types of ammunition, insinuating that the problem was operator error, not a design flaw. The Senior Instructor sold the rifle shortly thereafter.

Michigan Instructor: “Back before I was more familiar with this model, we had a malfunction of the Extractor during an event – it simply fell apart during a course of fire. I took it to Williams and they said it needed to go back to S&W. To save time I just bought a new extractor, springs and dowel pins and replaced them myself. Tested it and it worked fine, that’s until it malfunctioned again after several hundred rounds down range.

As the old saying goes “two is one and one is none” – I had purchased several extractors, springs and dowel pins – replaced it a second time and it worked fine all up until I had a “Run-Away…” Luckily I had the muzzle pointed down range as it spit out the balance of 30 rounds down range without the need to have a finger on the trigger….
I contacted S&W and they sent me a repair tag and shipped it back to them. Upon its return I noticed that they replaced the hammer, sear and all the springs were replaced with “Blue” springs. The rifle performed well the after that but I never brought it back to an Appleseed. It now sits in the vault as an expensive club.”

Montpelier, VA: I’ve witnessed out-of-battery firing and squib from M&P 15/22’s twice but never from a 10/22.

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Fred
S&WCA 3238

I bought one of the early 15-22s with no flash hider and shot the heck out of it. I bought a new one later on. I checked my old one and it is DIRTY but never a problem.

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Bob.
SWCA 1821

None with mine, but I don't shoot 400 rounds without cleaning it either.

Interesting. I have a few thousand rounds through mine. (15-22 Sport - newer model). I've never had an issue, thankfully. Matter of fact, last time out was an outing at a friends cabin. Probably put 1500 rounds through it with no cleaning, and zero issues. Maybe 1 FTE that whole time. Love this thing and hoping this is a very limited issue.

Mine often goes 400+ without a clean.

How many non issue 15-22s have been used? I get pulling guns from the line for malfunctions, done it before myself but you pull the offending gun and trouble shoot it you don't ban everything. If that was the case there would be no 1911s, no Glocks, no AR15s and no AKs at any of our shoots.

Would like to know if there is more to this story, individual reports on each rifle.

Glad everyone is ok though.

Regardless of not cleaned enough or whatever, this is not
good news for S&W or it's reputation for them to take
this action on a singular particular model.
Let's hope Smith and Wesson reviews this and then we'll see what
they have to say.
BTW... I don't own one so i don't have a dog in this fight.


Chuck

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They hold no Quarter

They HAVE to find out what the problem is. Zillions of these are in use and not caused problems. Nobody is blaming the rifle yet.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Reading the report, sounds like a couple of OOB, and a couple of fire control issues.

For the fire control issues, it sounds like pins walked or one or more springs were damaged. What is NOT known is whether the owner replaced the pins and/or fire control parts with different parts. Walking pins HAVE been known to occur, however, except in the case of worn out pin holes, I don't see how that is a S&W issue - if the j-connector spring or disconnector spring are worn/lost/whatever, then pins will walk because there is nothing to hold them in - it's not magic!

I understand Appleseed using an ounce of prevention in this case.

My $0.02.

I have owned 2 of the "standard" models. The first was a very early model. Never had an issue with it. Sold it because my 10/22 carbine was much more accurate. Fast forward about 2 years, bought another of the same model and added a suppressor. Once again, no issues except for poor accuracy. Neither of these were cleaned on a regular schedule, just when I could not remember the last time it was cleaned.

As much as I love my 15-22s and have never had a single problem with them, except for a trigger issue when using a Timney, I have read of many issues with this gun. Seems many have had to ship the gun back for repair and like stated, seems the pins walking are not unusual.

Can't recall any of my other guns having this many complaints. Granted, this is the least expensive gun I own however that should not be an excuse. I have no doubt some if not many of the issues have been caused by the owner, but obviously not all. Most of the issues I've read about dealt with failures to eject properly & sure don't recall any conversations here about the stock trigger wanting to shoot full auto. I also thought S&W fixed the OOB issue long ago but I do know folks here have complained a lot about the extractor coming off.

So in light of discussions here plus now what the Applessed folks have experienced, seems to me to be a good idea to have S&W address their concerns prior to allowing this gun in their events. Better safe than sorry.

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FIDELITAS ET FORTITUDO

I was so happy, just grabbed one of these and thought nothing but good things about this purchase and now to read this is disappointing. Before I bought it I saw nothing but great things about the 15-22. I purchased it new but the older model because I liked it more than the new one. Now I'm feeling blah about something that was highly raved about everywhere.

No Bueno

Why feel blah if you have no problem? The VAST majority of us have had no issues. Consider also that folks generally don't post unless they have had an issue. Also keep in mind this is a plinker for most and not your home defense or duty gun.

Also, a bunch of us don't shoot the gun as bought. We like to customize. Many of us have replaced the parts these folks are having issues with, such as the trigger group, the ejector and the trigger/hammer pins. But even then, I never had issues with the stock rifle.

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FIDELITAS ET FORTITUDO

I wonder if S&W has made modifications (improvements) to these rifles over the years. I don't know the answer. I have the newest model with the M-Lok handguard and have had some extraction issues, but nothing like what is described in the Appleseed stories above. If they have improved them, I wonder if they were only having issues with the early models at the Appleseed events. It does not specify that.

I also wonder if the trigger issues were due to modifications like replacing the screw that holds the grip on with a special screw designed to prevent over-travel of the trigger, or clipping one leg of the hammer spring, or just removing and installing the pins enough times to loosen the holes in the receiver. Many questions I have.

Mike

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NRA Certified Pistol Inst.

Likewise. I too recently purchased a 15-22 based in part on rave reviews. I hope S&W jumps all over this soon so that any problems are identified and resolved and 15-22 owners don't have this cloud of uncertainty hanging over their heads.

Doesn't it make since if the stock trigger was causing any issue, such as deciding to go auto or shoot on reset, that we would be hearing about it here? Since competition shooters are looking for a competitive edge, doesn't it make sense that maybe these guns causing these problems have been modified?

Why wouldn't Appleseed first verify these issues were caused by a stock gun, as opposed to one that has had trigger work done on it? At least to me, that would be where I would start.

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FIDELITAS ET FORTITUDO

I knowof hundreds of thousands of rounds fired through these things with no issues.

I have seen Glocks double. I've seen 1911s run away. I've seen AR and AKs fire on reset. I've seen Galils run away. I'll admit I haven't seen any OOBs in other calibers but my .22LR pistol has had an OOB.

I do wonder if the OOBs are pre blue spring or possibly worn blue spring guns?

I'd like to know what qualifies Appleseeds instructors to be instructors. From the interactions I've had I suspect the answer is "not much"...

Let's play nice, please. I'm an Appleseed instructor. I can't tell you how many hours it takes to qualify, but it's several tests, and many hours of teaching, coaching and running a line under the supervision of more senior instructors. As well as instructing shooting positions and techniques. As well as some unrelated things, such as Revolutionary War history. Are some sharper than others? If course. How could it be otherwise? But that's a lot harder and more rigorous certification than to be an NRA instructor, in my experience and NSHO.

In the case of my personal 15/22, it is an older model, and it is absolutely box-stock except for having mounted a low-power scope on it.

Anybody can do what they want, believe what they want, and say what they want. I'll be leaving mine in the safe until I hear what S&W says, and throwing no rocks at anyone in the meantime.

you know what I love about this forum, the changes in the wind.

Over the past 2 years or so we have heard of the odd problem here or there with an OOB, or some walking pins, or a dodgy trigger.....

More often than not traced back to a dirty rifle, a faulty pin, a worn hole for the walking pin, a weak spring / heavy spring on the hammer, a tricked out bobbed and polished hammer etc etc etc

And of course the follow up advice, get cleaning, replace pins with Anti Walk, change up / down trigger springs or whatever seems to help fix the problem.

THEN....

A couple or three similar problems occur at an APPLESEED and BOOM!!!!! the 15-22 is the anti Christ of shooting.

Just like that people doubt their choices, think of ditching their beloved plinkers and think about all the negative aspects of what COULD go wrong.

These type of things happen, Period.

Semi Auto going full auto, happens more then people like to admit.

Full auto going run away, again nothing new.

OOB, happens.

usually a result of all types of things like,
Dirty weapon
worn parts
dodgy ammo
freak, never before seen group of unfortunate circumstances
Old weapon
wrong type of ammo
the list is endless really, but let us not forget one thing, this time it was a comp gun type setting so I would hazard a guess that they had been tweaked at some point.

The above list of things that can go wrong I have seen and experienced on issue weapons from single shot, semi and full auto rifles and belt fed machine guns, if you shoot, you will likely have one or more of this at some point.

But lets not forget the one constant in all of these faults...the user.... no doubt there will also be a decision to use said weapon with said ammo on said event with the possibility of one or more of ANY of the listed factors coming in to play.

keep it clean, use what you know is good and use appropriate eye/ears and enjoy... don't run away from it, enjoy it.

It may never happen to you, if it does, stop check safe, pack up and go home or fix, reload and carry on.

my tuppence

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Utrinque Paratus

What I've quoted below was posted as an apparent rationalization of banning 15-22s.

15-22s use a standard AR-15 trigger group. It's a well proven, reliable, trigger group. That said there are many stupid things people do to them.

But, in the below example it seems an extractor failed, or fell out. I've seen plenty of 10-22s and Ruger semi-auto pistols do this. Inconvenient but not a big deal. THEN an "INSTRUCTOR" works on the gun and AFTER HE "WORKS" ON THE GUN it goes full auto. Not good.

Reading the posting, it appears to me, the more logical course of action would be for your "INSTRUCTOR" to keep his hands off the equipment. The 15-22 didn't have a "RUN-AWAY" 'til AFTER he "worked" on it...

The Appleseed "Instructor" though he was qualified to work on it but isn't confident in S&Ws' repairs? He says the rifle "performed well" after S&Ws' repairs but he won't bring it back to an Appleseed match? My greatest fear would be that he'd work on it again.

As to OOB ignition, this certainly isn't limited to 15-22s. I've bled when a shooter I was ROing had an OOB with his 10-22. A friend took the offending piece of brass out of my arm with a pair of needle nose pliers. It was in a spot I couldn't reach well enough to do it myself. It happens.

As an Appleseed instructor, can you find out if these 15-22s that had issues were box-stock, like yours? Seems to me that is the first question before banning a gun? No doubt the first question S&W will ask, so surely you folks know the answer.

Only time I've heard of the safety not working properly is when someone has changed out the trigger or grip, and not replaced the safety spring and/or detent properly. Easy to find discussion here where others have done just that. So do you know if this was questioned or verified? Had that gun been customized?

Once again, to me basic questions that have to be asked before completely banning a rifle. My assumption is y'all have asked these questions & verified these were stock guns... otherwise get your lawyers ready.

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FIDELITAS ET FORTITUDO

At least some of the problems were with unmodified rifles with fairly low round counts on them.

I haven't seen where anybody in the Appleseed organization has called that model of rifle an "Antichrist," or anything similar. They're just erring on the side of safety, until we ALL can get a handle on how widespread the problem is. They did have another shooter on the line (next to the apparently malfunctioning rifle) injured, blessedly not seriously, and they have liability concerns. Is that so awful?

Remember - this is a TEMPORARY ban.

The problem is that the damage you've done isn't TEMPORARY and will be very long lasting regardless of the outcome.

Have owned my 15-22 for 2 1/2 years and have never had a problem. I clean it after every range visit. .22lr ammo can be pretty dirty.

If I recall correctly the owners manual specifically states not to use Remington Thunderbolt ammo in the M&P 15-22. There is a list of reccomended ammo in the owners manual.

Appleseed is has unique safety concerns. Often they're dealing with a lot of people with no experience all at once. People who don't have the experience to recognize a malfunction or it's cause when it happens. Smith and Wesson isn't going to be damaged by a short pause while the problem is sorted out. You can bet your bippy that working with Appleseed will give them a promotional boost when they truthfully say the M&P 15-22 is "Appleseed Approved."

Ran approximately 300 rounds through my 15-22 at a steel match a week or so ago, not one single issue. Gun has close to 1,000 rounds through it.

My 15-22 probably has a few thousand rounds through it between cleanings, never had an issue. Same for my 10/22, all my Ruger MK pistols, and my S&W 22 Victory. One on the shooters that had an issue was shooting Thunderbolts, those **** rounds should be banned. Problems happen with .22s, they're a dirty round. This irks me as I'm going to an Appleseed in a month and though my 10/22 is going to be my main rifle, I was going to take the 15-22.

Appleseed - How our Instructors Compare

Sorry genius, your in the no jackass zone

So let me get this correct, you are more worried about S&W than you are about safety? Hmmm.

I would hope this not adversely effect Smith and Wesson, as Appleseed is just trying to make them aware of a potential safety issue. They are not trying to hurt S&W in any way, but to ensure the safety of the shooters on their lines.

Appleseed is not trying to ruin anyone's business. Their goal is to let folks know the rifle is temporarily disallowed at Appleseed Events due to a potential safety issue until Smith & Wesson formally investigates the problem and issues an official corrective action if necessary.

There is a potential safety issue here reported by multiple persons in multiple states. Until the S&W investigates and adjudicates the issue, let's all be aware of it and be careful. Simple. What are there, a bunch of Smith and Wesson stock holders on the forum? Or is it just a confederacy of dunces?

*you're.

Let me get this straight, we are to set aside our own experience of ample rounds, trouble free, through our guns on the word of a handful of problems experienced by some shooters of unknown quality?

This is akin to banning a type of car because some people had crashes in them, despite the hundreds of thousands of miles driven by those who didn't.

If there is a safety issue Smith will do something about, even if for no other reason than they are the ones who will be sued if someone does get injured.

Comparing the number or reported instances to the number of 15-22s in use, you're probably more likely to get hit by lightning than to have it happen to you.

Any Smith and Wesson stockholders want the issue dealt with swiftly. The downside of ignoring potential problems until they get to the national media and huge lawsuit stage is huge. Ask Remington about that one.

This sounds all nice but how is S&W supposed to formally investigate these issues if they didn't either confiscate those specific guns for testing or take detailed statements from the gun owner regarding if the gun had been customized?

We all know the AR platform is the most highly customized weapon out there. It is designed for idiots like me to swap out parts, even something like the trigger. I personally simply changed out the entire trigger group & put in a CMC module, but all you have to do is read here about all sorts of folks cutting & replacing trigger & hammer springs. Some folks grind & adjust the metal trigger parts.

So some 15-22 decides to go full auto at an Appleseed event. You seriously going to trust the statement from the owner that he didn't make adjustments to the trigger or do you think he might possibly lie to protect his own arse? My simple point is, Appleseed can't simply say these guns are dangerous without proper investigation. If the gun owner is allowed to take their gun home, how can S&W know what happened?

And by the way, if you are going to come on here & insult folks by calling names & questioning other's intelligence, you might want to go back to elementary school & retake your grammar class.

This is a classic:

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FIDELITAS ET FORTITUDO

It would be interesting to know how many other 15-22's shot at Appleseed events, possibly even the same events that these incidents happened at, that did not malfunction or cause safety concerns. Appleseed should have rightly banned the individual rifles that the accidents occurred with and noted the ammo used, the modifications that the user had made to the rifles and published these in the 'message'. Maybe they should also take their own form of responsibility in regards to safety,like separate shooting booths with a divider in between or ample distance between each shooter to help counteract such potential problems, which lets face can and will happen with any rifle.

I am just a little upset that my barrel is off getting the chop, otherwise i would have gone down the range post haste and enjoyed shooting with my 15-22 which i have done twice weekly for the past 2+ years, the only thing that annoys me about my 15-22 is when I am range officer and i have to put it down to clear stovepipes and FTE's with the 10/22 club guns.

I agree.

One thing is clear from Appleseeds release: the rifle went full auto only after one of Appleseeds "highly qualified" instuctors worked on it.

"...I had purchased several extractors, springs and dowel pins – replaced it a second time and it worked fine all up until I had a “Run-Away…”

So, an "instructor" works on a gun and only after his working on it does it have a "Run-Away" and it's the guns' fault???

As to another shooter getting a piece of brass in their arm from an OOB, first thing I'd want to know is how close together they had the shooters? Too close? Unlike bolt actions semi-autos spit hot brass There are common sense things that should be observed... like distance between shooters.

No, but nice try. What I am against is knee jerk reactions based on iffy, isolated, poorly researched/documented incidents.

It appears determining what actually happened if there is an incident is not part of the "instructor" training curriculum. Apparently gunsmithing is also not part of the curriculum when a rifle goes full auto after an "instructor" works on it. Blame the gun?

Seems this could have been handled in a much better more competent way.

Appleseed is just playing it smart.If someone is injured at one of their events,they will be sued along with S&W.

This does kinda reek of lawyers and covering their rear by throwing S&W under the bus...

After over 65 years of shooting 22's I have had two rounds detonate when I pulled the trigger. Lots of smoke, very loud, extractor blown out of the action, one barrel damaged, one bolt broken. Neither could have been a fired 'out of battery' problem.

One was with CCI Blazer, one with Federal Target. CCI and Federal both claimed it was because the firearms fired out of battery, blaming the firearm. My gunsmith and I both agree, the rounds were overcharged, probably with priming compound.

What we need is an independent lab where we can have problems like this resolved.

I want to add that in all my dealings with Smith & Wesson customer service they have been totally honest, concerned and treated me right!

One thing I learned is that I will not stand to the right of someone firing a rifle or pistol that ejects to the right. One extractor from my Win. Mod 61 traveled over 15 feet, could very easily injured anyone on my right.

I have found a big difference between Remington customer service and Federal - CCI customer service. Remington will likely say, wow, we are sorry, was any one hurt? Then work you.

The other two CCI & Federal were on the defense immediately and it did not get any better.

The fact stands that if any of the users of these suspect rifles DID anything with the triggers, springs or extractors, then S&W are not at fault, neither is the 15-22. Any user repairs or modifications would void any responsibility S&W have for any accident or injury occurring from...it does seem to be a glaring omission from the Appleseed condemnation, as to whether the rifles were using 'correct ammunition' or had modified their rifles in any way...and as was stated by Jim, would they come clean to polishing here or snipping a spring there, well S&W would probably be able to tell, but seeing as though no rifle was confiscated or sent to them...they will not get the chance to investigate. Seems to be a bit of a pig circus to me. A deflection from bad practice by people providing the end user a place to test their wares. If i had a full auto on a 15-22 and i was 100% positive that i had not modded the rifle in anyway or done work on it myself...then i would be suing S&W myself...the fact that no one is bringing an immediate lawsuit suggests that someone knows something they are not telling.

Actually it's worse than that. From Appleseeds' release:

"EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, THE USE OF SMITH AND WESSON M&P 15/22’S AT AN APPLESEED IS HEREBY BANNED UNTIL SMITH & WESSON FORMALLY INVESTIGATES THE PROBLEM AND ISSUES AN OFFICIAL CORRECTIVE ACTION. THE AOC WILL NOTIFY THE CADRE WHEN THIS BAN IS LIFTED."

Appleseed certainly appears to be washing their hands of this and dumping on S&W.

Gotta agree with GhostMutt that there's more to this we're not hearing.

I just hope this issue is not just a fabrication, in an attempt to keep the "black rifles" out of the hands of our youth.

I actually know some pro-gun people with that attitude. They tell me they serve no purpose, and are not "sportsman like".

A couple of things to consider about Appleseed's (temporary) ban:

It has not yet been determined how many of the 15/22's that have had troubles are stock, and how many have had aftermarket or reworked parts installed. This is undoubtedly a work in progress. In any case, it's probably impractical to demand that instructors/RSO's inspect and determine which is which, on the line, on into the future. Or to test-fire every rifle before the instruction starts. Or teach every novice how to clean the rifle, including the action and fire control parts.

The same goes with allowed/disallowed ammo types, if it is determined that only some types cause the problem. Of course it's better if all shooters everywhere adhere to factory recommendations - but that would be really hard to enforce, especially on novice shooters and considering that there are still .22 shortages and spotty supplies nationwide.
And how would you strictly control shooters "borrowing" ammo from each other? Would you turn away an attendee because he picked up a brick of non-recommended ammo on the way to the shoot?

These are real and practical considerations, especially with novice shooters, where the "rubber meets the road," on the line on a Saturday morning.

Nobody is disputing that many, probably a majority, of 15/22 users have put hundreds or thousands of rounds through their rifles, with or without a strict cleaning regimen, with no troubles at all. And of course, there have been incidents with other models. But there clearly DOES SEEM to be a pattern of problems with 15/22's, that begs for investigation and resolution. That's what's going on now. Sorry, it just isn't possible to give immediate, definitive answers to all the very legitimate questions and objections that this decision has raised. I am confident that this investigative process is under way.

That's undoubtedly why Appleseed leaders took the interim steps they did, until this can get sorted out. Just my assumptions, because I am a line instructor and not at the program leadership level. Of course, no course of action will please everybody or be the perfect solution to every situation.

I DO trust the good faith of the Appleseed leadership, and am giving them the room and time they need to arrive at a long-term solution.

Your ASSUMPTIONS are clearly at odds with what Appleseed has stated:

"EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, THE USE OF SMITH AND WESSON M&P 15/22’S AT AN APPLESEED IS HEREBY BANNED UNTIL SMITH & WESSON FORMALLY INVESTIGATES THE PROBLEM AND ISSUES AN OFFICIAL CORRECTIVE ACTION. THE AOC WILL NOTIFY THE CADRE WHEN THIS BAN IS LIFTED."

Note where Appleseed says: "...UNTIL SMITH & WESSON FORMALLY INVESTIGATES THE PROBLEM AND ISSUES AN OFFICIAL CORRECTIVE ACTION..."

SOP is to remove the firearm in question until what's wrong has been corrected. It seems in this instance Appleseed chose to tar all 15-22s with the same brush.

What has been reported can, and does happen with other semi-auto rimfires. I particularly like blaming the rifle for going full auto AFTER YOUR "QUALIFIED INSTRUCTOR" WORKED ON IT.

Your "assumptions" seem to be contradicted by what Appleseed has said...