Hi,
I'm new to AR-15s and newer on the M&P Sport Forum. This is my first post here. Since you don't know me, I wanted to give you background and context for my question, which otherwise might be mis-perceived as off-putting.
I'm looking for guns for home defense, indoors and ideally barricated until (or if?) the cops come. Based on the way my house is set up, home defense encounters would be between 2-7 yards. Right now, my primary is a Glock 17, thanks in part to the 30 day wait law between gun purchases here. I've perused the other forum and talked to several people who know more than me. My assessment is to have an AR-15 as a primary weapon, the Glock as back up.
I'm in California, where .22LR pistols, all ammo, and most guns are in short supply. Plus, we can only buy ammo from stores, i.e. no on-line shipments of ammo. I'm limited to 10 round mags, too.
I'm excited that I just bought, and am sitting out, the Kalifornia background check on my Sport ii, due for pick up on 9/14/21 (due to having to wait 30 days after the Glock purchase).
Ammo prices are crazy and, paradoxically, I can get .223/5.56 easier than .22LR. However, the .22LR is 50-80% cheaper than the .223, depending on what little is available.
I was hoping to work on certain skills economically by buying a 15-22 and setting it up exactly as my Sport ii, eg quick release sling. I've researched and took delivery of accessories, eg sling, bore sight, front iron site adjustment tool, and M-Lok freefloating handguards. All I need is the rifle
However, I can't find the 15-22 in stores and one store, appointment only, won't even return my messages! My LGS said that the 15-22 is actually banned and is otherwise lacking my enthusiasm about S&W M&Ps (though they reluctantly sold me the Sport ii, trying to upsell me to a 2x more expensive JP Enterprises).
They have an HK 416 in .22LR (made by Umarex), proprietary and hard to find mags (not as bad as the 15-22s) and has only a 1 year warranty for $429. For $595, they have a Tippmann M4-22 Elite, which has a lifetime warranty, really nice features (eg 5150 barrel), and proprietary mags. Today, I held both guns and they felt comfortable (collapsible/adjusting stocks are legal on .22LR ARs, but not the Sport ii, and I have long arms).
I like the idea of lifetime warranties (most of my power and hand tools and aftermarket car parts are and manufacturers probably have my photo on their targets, LOL), and that was a significant reason I bought the Sport ii.
Both the HK and Tippman have good on-line reviews.
Of course, they have the venerable Ruger 10/22, for about $300, but that would be a different set-up from the AR-15 that I'm trying to emulate.
The other option is to do the CMMG .22LR conversion kit. They offer a lifetime warranty, have good on-line reviews, and would cost about $250, including mags. That set up would almost perfectly emulate my Sport ii, sans the recoil and easier clean up. However, that rig seems fussy about ammo, at least anecdotally. The on-line owner's manual just says to avoid sub-sonic rounds.
Any thoughts on the HK and Tippmann .22LRs?
I'm also apprehensive about the .22LR, because I've read about how dirty they make the guns and squibs. I just read the ammo section of the 15-22's on-line owner manual, which wasn't really helpful (in the past, they apparently made specific ammo recommendations). I use only store-bought ammo compatible with my guns (e.g. buying 55-62 grain for my 1:9" twist Sport ii) when I owned guns in a prior life, cleaned them after every outing to the range. I also read on other forums lots of defects with CCIs last year, which I can't find here for the life of me.
I bought a Hoppe Bore Snake and have a cleaning kit and gun cleaner in hand.
Over the past few weeks, the only .22LR that I could find, and which I quickly bought are: Federal Champion (blue box), 40 grain, lead, round nose, 1,200 FPS; and Norma TAC-22, 40 grain, 1,100 fps.
Can you help address the cleaning and ammo quality issues, possibly recommending what might be good?
Finally, a police acquaintance in a different part of Kalifornia suggested that I use a Ruger Mini-14 for home defense, because that would look less aggressive than an AR-15 to a jury or district attorney. By the way, where I live, the Castle Doctrine and stand your ground apply.
I'm new to AR-15s and newer on the M&P Sport Forum. This is my first post here. Since you don't know me, I wanted to give you background and context for my question, which otherwise might be mis-perceived as off-putting.
I'm looking for guns for home defense, indoors and ideally barricated until (or if?) the cops come. Based on the way my house is set up, home defense encounters would be between 2-7 yards. Right now, my primary is a Glock 17, thanks in part to the 30 day wait law between gun purchases here. I've perused the other forum and talked to several people who know more than me. My assessment is to have an AR-15 as a primary weapon, the Glock as back up.
I'm in California, where .22LR pistols, all ammo, and most guns are in short supply. Plus, we can only buy ammo from stores, i.e. no on-line shipments of ammo. I'm limited to 10 round mags, too.
I'm excited that I just bought, and am sitting out, the Kalifornia background check on my Sport ii, due for pick up on 9/14/21 (due to having to wait 30 days after the Glock purchase).
Ammo prices are crazy and, paradoxically, I can get .223/5.56 easier than .22LR. However, the .22LR is 50-80% cheaper than the .223, depending on what little is available.
I was hoping to work on certain skills economically by buying a 15-22 and setting it up exactly as my Sport ii, eg quick release sling. I've researched and took delivery of accessories, eg sling, bore sight, front iron site adjustment tool, and M-Lok freefloating handguards. All I need is the rifle
However, I can't find the 15-22 in stores and one store, appointment only, won't even return my messages! My LGS said that the 15-22 is actually banned and is otherwise lacking my enthusiasm about S&W M&Ps (though they reluctantly sold me the Sport ii, trying to upsell me to a 2x more expensive JP Enterprises).
They have an HK 416 in .22LR (made by Umarex), proprietary and hard to find mags (not as bad as the 15-22s) and has only a 1 year warranty for $429. For $595, they have a Tippmann M4-22 Elite, which has a lifetime warranty, really nice features (eg 5150 barrel), and proprietary mags. Today, I held both guns and they felt comfortable (collapsible/adjusting stocks are legal on .22LR ARs, but not the Sport ii, and I have long arms).
I like the idea of lifetime warranties (most of my power and hand tools and aftermarket car parts are and manufacturers probably have my photo on their targets, LOL), and that was a significant reason I bought the Sport ii.
Both the HK and Tippman have good on-line reviews.
Of course, they have the venerable Ruger 10/22, for about $300, but that would be a different set-up from the AR-15 that I'm trying to emulate.
The other option is to do the CMMG .22LR conversion kit. They offer a lifetime warranty, have good on-line reviews, and would cost about $250, including mags. That set up would almost perfectly emulate my Sport ii, sans the recoil and easier clean up. However, that rig seems fussy about ammo, at least anecdotally. The on-line owner's manual just says to avoid sub-sonic rounds.
Any thoughts on the HK and Tippmann .22LRs?
I'm also apprehensive about the .22LR, because I've read about how dirty they make the guns and squibs. I just read the ammo section of the 15-22's on-line owner manual, which wasn't really helpful (in the past, they apparently made specific ammo recommendations). I use only store-bought ammo compatible with my guns (e.g. buying 55-62 grain for my 1:9" twist Sport ii) when I owned guns in a prior life, cleaned them after every outing to the range. I also read on other forums lots of defects with CCIs last year, which I can't find here for the life of me.
I bought a Hoppe Bore Snake and have a cleaning kit and gun cleaner in hand.
Over the past few weeks, the only .22LR that I could find, and which I quickly bought are: Federal Champion (blue box), 40 grain, lead, round nose, 1,200 FPS; and Norma TAC-22, 40 grain, 1,100 fps.
Can you help address the cleaning and ammo quality issues, possibly recommending what might be good?
Finally, a police acquaintance in a different part of Kalifornia suggested that I use a Ruger Mini-14 for home defense, because that would look less aggressive than an AR-15 to a jury or district attorney. By the way, where I live, the Castle Doctrine and stand your ground apply.
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