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Old 06-13-2011, 05:18 PM
Ken NC Ken NC is offline
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Default M&P 45 vs. 1911 Accuracy & reliability

Been thinking about a new 1911, perhaps a Ruger sr1911 or the basic S&W e-series (the one that lists for under 1K). Primarily for range shooting or home defense. But I have been reading good things about the M&P 45, and the price, availability, and warranty are all attractive. I have the M&P 9 compact and think highly of that. If you have an opinion on the accuracy & reliability of the M&P 45 as compared to 1911s in the 700 to 1K price range, I would sure be interested. Thank you!
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Old 06-13-2011, 07:32 PM
Rangel Rangel is offline
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With the 1911, you're holding a piece of history, albiet one that's evolved over the 100 years its been around. It feels great--like a double walled brick house in a windstorm, but in your hand. Its just a very special sidearm--it just screams 'real deal'. They once were not known for accuracy--they were orginally pretty much for close quarters warfare only and if you missed or ran out of ammo, the weight of a 1911 thrown at the head of an enemy was probably gonna kill him just as well. With time and better (closer) build tolerances, they've become very accurate and their considerable weight manages recoil nicely. But, as with most quality guns built to close tolerances, a piece of sand or grit can hang you up. It's not as easy, especially as an M&P for a novice, to break down a 1911. They're both great guns, and it'd be great to have both, but if I only could have one, I'd give the nod to the M&P. Get yourself a Gerber LMF knife to go with it. If you get the 1911, get a Kabar.
You also save a considerable amount of money. In fact with what you save, you could buy an M&P 45, then with the money left over, almost buy a 40, and then interchange 40 and 9mm barrels, giving you three excellent guns for the price of a mid range 1911. All of the above guns are very reliable and accurate although as indicated, the 1911 needs to treated a bit more carefully.
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:10 AM
S. Kelly S. Kelly is offline
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I picked up a used M&P45 to try out. I ran 75, old, turned in, chewed up duty ammo (Gold Dot 230 Gr HP) thru the gun. It chewed them up and spit them out, no problem. I then shot 50 rounds of reloads that looked like they'd been in a fire. Again, the gun didn't choke at all. I was impressed greatly. And all my friends were shocked at it's accuracy. Other than a suck trigger and a terrible finish (lots of factory milling marks and divots that were melonited over), it's a great gun. I'd go M&P45 over a 1911 any day.
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:50 AM
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All else being equal, the 1911 for accuracy; the M&P for reliability.
BUT, (and this is a big BUT) it depends on what kind of shooting you do, your skill, and how you maintain the guns which better serves your purpose.

The difference between a 2 inch gun and a 3 inch gun is NONE in the hands of a 4 inch shooter!
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Old 06-14-2011, 11:51 AM
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I've been a 1911 shooter for 20 years or so and always keep at least one in the work/carry rotation. I got into the M&P thing a couple of months ago, when our range guys had a couple of samples for us to try out. I was immediately impressed with the M&P 45 and went out and got one with the thumb safety. I got the thumb safety model because it was similar in operation to the 1911; safety down to make it go bang, safety up when holstered. To me the M&P seems to lock on target naturally with quick doubles almost easy. The factory night sights are almost perfect with just the right amount of light on each side of the front blade. I haven't put a lot of rounds through it yet, but it seems like a very well made pistol. No malfunctions at all, with several hundred FMJ and HP rounds so far. I got to go to the M&P armorer's course and was impressed with the engineering that went into them. The accuracy between the M&P and a good 1911 are similar. Sometimes you have to tweak a 1911 to make it 100% reliable, depending on brand or era of manufacture. I'm sure a high dollar 1911 can be more accurate. The different grip inserts on the M&P make it easy to fit whatever size hand you have. I think the only thing that would make the M&P 45 better would be a 5" model.
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:39 PM
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Remember you are posting on the M&P forum. Most are here because they like the M&P. I am that way. A lot of people on this forum have 1911s & like them. I am that way. You have a tough choice to make. I would favor the M&P 45.
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Old 06-14-2011, 09:13 PM
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Thank you all for the many helpful insights! I do have a 1911, so I have to say I am now leaning substantially towards the M&P (with thumb safety) for the next purchase
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Old 06-14-2011, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken NC View Post
Thank you all for the many helpful insights! I do have a 1911, so I have to say I am now leaning substantially towards the M&P (with thumb safety) for the next purchase
Wow, if this thread doesn't say it all... with facts.. nothing does. I echo everything said here. I have both, in fact, several different 1911's and PC945.... I would take my M&P45 over all of them without a second thought... I go to the range weekly and tend to shoot what ever the topics I've been reading that week... just a couple weeks ago, lots of 45 cal and 1911 threads... I brought my 3" 945, my 1911SC and my M&P45. They all shot great... but once again... I just shake my head in disbelief when I shoot my M&P... that says it all for me! It is absolutely my favorite 45acp, it does it all.
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Old 06-14-2011, 10:02 PM
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I have paras,kimbers and S&W 1911s,like them a lot.Two months ago got me a M&P 45 with 4.5" barrell,put a fiber optic front sight,crimson trace laser sight and apex 3.5 lb competition trigger.Fell in love with the gun,eats everything I feed her with gusto.very little recoil,no safeties to bother with,as accurate as a kimber,and very low maintenance.like it so much I got me another identical,will sell most of my 1911s.The M&P is a shooter's gun,
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Old 06-14-2011, 11:15 PM
Brass Nuggets Brass Nuggets is offline
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E-Series I also own SA 1911 in 9MM and is sweet...

My M&P is nice as well... but 1911 is in a different space, experience.

So, own both!
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Old 06-15-2011, 12:19 AM
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I traded a Kimber I could not get to perform reliably for a M&P 45. Could not be happier. I still have 2 Kimbers I will not part with, but because of the M&P 45 I now own .40 and 9mm as well. 1911's are in a class unto themselves and when they work they are wonderful. My M&P's have all worked from the start. As Brass Nuggets said, if you can, own both.
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Old 06-15-2011, 04:14 AM
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Everyone should own at least 1 1911 . A fellow instructor has a M&P 45c and I have had several opportunities to shoot it. It is accurate, but his apears to be a "jam-a-matic". I suspect the issues are casued by his reloads. That being said, I would buy one in a heart beat. I like the way it feels in my hand and the way it shoots.
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Old 06-15-2011, 09:32 AM
tstrenuous10 tstrenuous10 is offline
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1911.

The new Rugar is pretty nice looking. $700 around my neighborhood. I'd take the 1911 over the M&P 45 any day and I have an M&P with serial number MPB9xxx in 40.
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Old 06-15-2011, 10:41 AM
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1911.

The new Rugar is pretty nice looking. $700 around my neighborhood. I'd take the 1911 over the M&P 45 any day and I have an M&P with serial number MPB9xxx in 40.
Have you shot or own either gun, the MP45 or the Ruger...
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Old 06-15-2011, 06:58 PM
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I agree that the Ruger looks pretty good and comes in at an attractive price, but with Ruger, as with pretty much all gun manufacturers, I'm hesitant to buy something that hasn't been out a while.

Almost inevitably, they have to fix or at least alter something they didn't catch the first time around.

That and me wondering if they (Ruger) were in a hurry to get in on the 100th anniversary hoopla surrounding the 1911, gives me pause.

Of course the magazines gush over it, but that doesn't impress me much either.
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Old 06-16-2011, 10:35 PM
Mazdajoe Mazdajoe is offline
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I own both the Ruger SR1911 and an M&P .45 with 4.5" barrel and manual safety. The M&P is overall a superior weapon. Everyone should own a 1911 but I'd choose my M&P over any 1911, even a Brown, Baer or Wilson when the SHTF. About the only benefit of an entry level 1911 like the Ruger is the trigger. Step up to a custom or semi-custom 1911 and accuracy becomes another benefit. However, the M&P will keep banging ****** ammo in the dirtiest environments long after a 1911's extractor went limp. The M&P is more reliable, holds more rounds, is lighter, is more corrosion resistant, is safer (with manual safety), is easier to work on, has adjustable ergos with the different grip sizes and points as naturally as a 1911. It's trigger really isn't that bad. The take up is a little gritty as you pull through the firing pin safety but smooths over time and the sear breaks like glass despite being a little heavy. It's also accurate enough for 25 yard head shots off-hand. Get the M&P.
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Old 06-17-2011, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken NC View Post
Been thinking about a new 1911, perhaps a Ruger sr1911 or the basic S&W e-series (the one that lists for under 1K). Primarily for range shooting or home defense. But I have been reading good things about the M&P 45, and the price, availability, and warranty are all attractive. I have the M&P 9 compact and think highly of that. If you have an opinion on the accuracy & reliability of the M&P 45 as compared to 1911s in the 700 to 1K price range, I would sure be interested. Thank you!
I purchased a full size M&P45 and am impressed with it's reliability and accuracy. It feeds 185 gr. LSWC, 185 to 230 gr. JHP and 230 gr FMJ bullets without any feeding issues. My unit provides nice tight 10 shot groups at 50 ft which measure 1 1/4 to 2 inches. Few 1911's will match it's reliability.
The only comparison I can provide with a 1911 in 45 ACP is a Dan Wesson Pointman and SA Trophy Match - both will group at the low end of the M&P45's grouping capability.
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Old 06-18-2011, 11:19 AM
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I've carried a number of .45s over the years to include worn-out Ithica and Remington Rand military issue, personally owned Spingfield and Colt, Glock 21s, and the M&P 45 full sized. For every day carry, I am most happy with the M&P. Its not a great concealed carry gun, but its smaller than a Glock and fits my hand well. Considering that a comparable 1911 that has been proven reliable costs a lot more, I'm happy with the M&P and will probably add a 45C to the collection one of these days to replace my Glock 23. I played with one featuring a thumb safety at a gun store and was not impressed. It just didn't have the solid, positive feel of a 1911 safety, and since the M&P was first designed for safe carry without, I could not see any need for it. My 45 has just over 4K rounds through it - all 230 grain factory - FMJ, Hydra Shok, Golden Saber and has never malfunctioned. I simply keep it lightly lubed, which is a smart thing for any pistol regardless of manufacture. The closest thing to a malfunction was recently when a very dirty magazine in a very dirty pistol failed to lock back after the last round a couple of times. After I wiped it down, it seemed to work again without a hint of problem. In terms of accuracy, its as good as any service grade pistol out there. I've got over 20 years of experience shooting Glocks and know their strengths and shortcomings. I've only got about three with the M&P, but so far I am comfortable with this platform. A well-tuned 1911 is a great pistol, but its not for everyone. Furthermore, consider a pistol used during a lawful self-defense shooting will be confinscated as evidence until the case clears. I'll cry less having to hand over and possibly never seeing my $500 M&P than my $1,200 - up 1911 again.
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Old 06-18-2011, 11:43 AM
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I'm the contrarian here. Have owned and shot many .45s over the years. 3-gun bullseye shooter in the Army.
I bought an M&P 45 on an impulse, after handling it in the shop. It felt great. My normal breakin routine is a couple hundred rounds of WWB.
After that, I compared the M&P to my 1911, Glock 30 and S&W 645. With factory loads and a variety of my handloads, the M&P was the least accurate of the group IN MY HANDS. Not by much, but consistently last place. Put in the Apex kit, which improved it a bit.
Never had a function problem, nor have any of the others, for that matter.
In the end, I swapped the M&P for a nice Model 681.
So, all's well that ends well.

Now, If I could just find a PC Model 845!

My $0.03, YMMV.
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Old 06-19-2011, 10:14 AM
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A well tuned, professionally built 1911 is a thing of beauty and a sublime shooting experience. That said, it usually costs a lot of money. I have one. It is amazing.

However, my M&P 45 shoots right there with it. It is just as accurate. It NEVER fails to shoot or feed or eject. No matter what ammo I run, no matter how I'm holding it. If something breaks on my M&P, I just take the replacement part and drop it in. No fitting, no tuning like you have to do on some 1911 parts (like the extractor).

That said, it will never feel like a 1911. The trigger will never be like a 1911 (Apex's forward set sear and trigger may get you real close), and to me the 1911 trigger is the best in the combat semi-auto handgun world, bar none.

When people are interested in a first .45 and they want a 1911, and they are intending to carry it and use it for HD, I tell them to get an M&P 45 first because I'm pretty sure it will run right out of the box and feed any type of ammo they try to stuff in it. That will get them into the .45 world without a lot of headaches and the potential for getting a gun that has to be sent back to the manufacturer, or a pistolsmith, to get running. Then, after shooting that for a while, if they still want a 1911, I help them choose a 1911
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Old 06-19-2011, 10:35 AM
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What an awsome tribute to a gun... if this doesn't speak volumnes of the quality and accuracy of a gun.... nothing does. It seems pretty unanimus, not to mention overwhelming if you are considering the M&P45.. I haven't CCW my M&P45 in a while, with my new IWB holster for 40c, I tried my M&P45 in it yesterday, fit perfect, carried for the day, other than feeling the extra few oz... it was very comforting knowing I had 10 45acp bullets at my defense...
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Old 06-19-2011, 10:58 AM
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Silly rabbits...

External extractors are for double action 9mm's...

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Old 06-19-2011, 11:16 AM
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Don't know if this will help with your decision making process or not, but I will share an experience from a recent class I put on.

I had a recently widowed 76 year old lady with slightly arthritic hands that did not know which of her recently deceased husbands collection she should use, she simply grabbed 8 boxes of 45ACP ammo which ran the gamut there were 185gr. semi wadcutters, 200 gr semi wadcutters, 230 JHP, 230 FMJ and some I did not recognize.

We instruct the students to have a bunch of loose rounds in their pockets so as to be able to top of their magazines while we are giving them instructions for the upcoming stage.

Well, being the good and dutiful student she was, she dumped ALL of the ammo out in her gym bag and mixed all of the ammo. She was using my M&P 45 Full Size as a loaner.

To my surprise and that of the other instructors as well, the M&P ran everything with no problems at all. Also, the point of aim and point of impact seemed to remain the same with magazines loaded with all kinds of different ammo.

After class she returned my M&P .45ACP she asked me to write down what it was that she just used. I did and asked her why, her response was "I have to go get one of these, this is fun!!"

I am not sure any of my beloved 1911's would do the same with magazines full of mixed ammo.
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Old 06-19-2011, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
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Silly rabbits...

External extractors are for double action 9mm's...

really don't get this one..... but nice looking 1911..
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Old 06-19-2011, 07:17 PM
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My son and I had an opportunity to shoot a guys Kimber (awesome gun) at the range this weekend (you meet the nicest people at the shooting range), and we let him shoot our M&P. I have to say that there is something about shooting a 1911 that just makes you feel like you are using a piece of history. That being said, my son and I agreed that the M&P was a little easier to handle (less muzzle jump on same ammo) than the 1911. What was funny was that the experience made me want to get a 1911 (a S&W E Series perhaps), and our new friend was really grooving on the M&P.
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Old 06-19-2011, 11:12 PM
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I own a M&P.45c and it is my favorite pistol to shoot. I have shot glock, ruger, and many other pistols, the M&P is the nicest pistol out IMO! I suggest a 45c to anyone that plans on concealed carrying. It is compact and shoots like a champ!!!!!
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Old 06-20-2011, 12:06 AM
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The 1911 kind of reminds me of a late 60's, early 70's Corvette/Stingray. They were and still are great cars, just like the 1911's are still great guns, but put the older models up against a new Vette and the oldies might feel great, but in just about every performance parameter, the new Vette is going to put a spanking on those old vintage cars. Sure, you can do some upgrades to the old Vettes and the 1911 has been refined quite a bit in recent years, (especially Kimber, Les Baer) but in most cases, there are still newer models that overall, are equally, or even more reliable. They usually also offer better performance for the amount of money you'll dish out for a prime condition older model versus a new 'version' shooting the same caliber round. But all the same, there's nothing quite like shooting a nice 1911.
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Old 06-20-2011, 02:57 AM
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Similar to Porsche 1911 story..Every once in a while your dash will crack, and your key will not work the lock, but most of the time it is fun. And my Town Car makes me money non-stop day after day, after day, after day..

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Old 06-20-2011, 08:51 AM
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To be fair wouldn't one need to compare a cheap 1911 to the M&P45? Wouldn't that be an apples to apples comparison? When I was in the market for my first 45acp, I looked at the offerings in the range that I had available. OK, most people have more than $550 available when they go 1911 shopping, but I didn't. I looked at the cheap 1911's, but decided that a new Glock 21sf was the gun for me in that price range. The 1911's available were either used & abused or the cheaper manufacturers like Rock Island. I'm sure they are fine guns, but I just felt more comfortable with a 45acp Glock since it was to be a self defense/home defense gun.

Recently I decided to purchase a good range gun that I could shoot tight groups at 25 +Yds. My Glock was the only gun I owned with a barrel over 3 1/2" except for the Sigma, which isn't designed as a target pistol. I again opted for something other than a 1911. I purchased a M&P 40 Pro with a 5" barrel. Again the cost was $550 and the reliability and accuracy has to be better than what I could have found at that price in a 1911. (Granted I jacked the cost up by purchasing a 357sig barrel & a 9mm conversion barrel) That added cost pushed the purchase into the range for a 1911 that would have yielded a pretty nice 1911 gun. I just wouldn't have the versatility of the M&P.

I agree that everyone needs at least one 1911 in their collection. I still don't have one, but I'm sure there is one in my future. Will it be a cheaper one? Probably not. Maybe I'll luck out and find a really good one at a really good price. But until then I will enjoy the accuracy, reliability & versatility my M&P 40 Pro & my Glock 21sf.

Last edited by ET.; 06-20-2011 at 08:53 AM.
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Old 06-20-2011, 09:16 AM
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I have 1911s. They have always worked. I'll stick with them.

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  #31  
Old 06-20-2011, 12:17 PM
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Re:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>Similar to Porsche 1911 story..Every once in a while your dash will crack, and your key will not work the lock, but most of the time it is fun. And my Town Car makes me money non-stop day after day, after day, after day..<<

I like that analogy, but I see comparisons to of the 1911 pistol in both the Porsche 911, which has basically been the same car, continuously updated since the mid 1950's, just as the 1911 has since , well--1911! Then again, pretty much all the 1911's and a lot of different companies have made them, even the Singer Sewing Machine company at one time had a military contract to build 1911s, have made them large, steady and sturdy, much like the Lincoln Towncar.

Shame, the Lincoln Towncar, ladder frame and all, has been discontinued by Ford. Long a mainstay in NYNY, where most of them were known a 'black cars' they are preferred by the rich as they don't stand out too much and in some areas, are actually the most common car in traffic. They take a licking and keep ticking, many going to 400,000+ miles, with repair and after market parts easy to find and cheap at that. All you really needed to stretch them into a limo was a welding torch and some cheap parts, including ready made electrical harnesses. The 1960's Lincoln Continentals are said to be (due to the motor and withstanding rust hopefully) the longest lasting car ever made in the USA-- second worldwide only to the Mercedes 240 diesel.

Yea, you see some great old guns out there--I'm still looking for a Sharps Carbine, but like the Towncar is to autos, there's probably no older pistol more common and fixable than the venerable 1911.

What car would you compare your favorite gun to?
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Old 06-20-2011, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangel View Post
What car would you compare your favorite gun to?
Glock 21sf = Ford Crown Vic

Glock 27 = Jeep Wrangler

M&P 40 Pro = Mercury Grand Marquis

Those are my three favorite guns that I own.
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  #33  
Old 06-22-2011, 02:53 PM
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Wow, this generated a lot of discussion!
I went ahead and got the full size M&P 45 with ambi safety last weekend. Shot it today, liked it alot. Moved the target back, shot it some more, and liked it even more. It is a keeper for sure.

I have an original Colt series 70 and like it alot, but don't shoot it often and didn't want to customize it. Wanted something with decent accuracy and better sights, reliable, lighter and easy to clean. The M&P has definitely fit the bill. Thanks again for all the thoughts & suggestions.
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:55 PM
patrick38b patrick38b is offline
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I'm a new owner of a s&w m&p 45c got the 50$ rebate
I also own a ria 1911 compact and my ria is now for sale
I guess its mainly my preference I have put enough time in each gun that I have realized a few differances
1- the m&p is half the weight which is nicer to carry
2- both guns have high capacity mags so even on that
3- the ria came stock with one mag opposed to the 2 from s&w
4- the m&p has a nicer finish by far
5- the sites on each are stock sites and both work to my liking even there
6- I give the trigger pull to the ria but not by much
7- accuracy I give to the m&p
8- aesthetically the 1911 is nicer but after getting over
The fact that the m&p is gecko45 approved I can't help
But appreciate the fact that the m&p feels better in my hand like the way some ppl like menthols over full flavor, its my opinion.
9- the ria was more picky on ammo
10- m&p is more consealable thinner profile

In my opinion the
m&p was my best
logical choice for a 45 for me I'm curious what do other owners think of their m&p 45s ?
Think I made a good choice?
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:51 PM
catcus-jack catcus-jack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazdajoe View Post
I own both the Ruger SR1911 and an M&P .45 with 4.5" barrel and manual safety. The M&P is overall a superior weapon. Everyone should own a 1911 but I'd choose my M&P over any 1911, even a Brown, Baer or Wilson when the SHTF. About the only benefit of an entry level 1911 like the Ruger is the trigger. Step up to a custom or semi-custom 1911 and accuracy becomes another benefit. However, the M&P will keep banging ****** ammo in the dirtiest environments long after a 1911's extractor went limp. The M&P is more reliable, holds more rounds, is lighter, is more corrosion resistant, is safer (with manual safety), is easier to work on, has adjustable ergos with the different grip sizes and points as naturally as a 1911. It's trigger really isn't that bad. The take up is a little gritty as you pull through the firing pin safety but smooths over time and the sear breaks like glass despite being a little heavy. It's also accurate enough for 25 yard head shots off-hand. Get the M&P.
I have Wilson Combat 1911 and some others.The Wilson has over 100,000 documented rounds through it from 200gr lswc handloads to 230gr full house Cor-Bon hollow points.This pistol has been 99.9% reliable the only problems were with some out of spec reloads.I also have 2 M&P 45s when they reach the round count of the Wilson I will let you know which is more reliable.I don't know where you come up with your corrosion resistant results but there have been many threads about M&P slides rusting,also how do you figure an M&P with a thumb safety is safer than a 1911 which has a thumb safety and a grip safety?I carry both at different times,mostly the M&P if I would have to use it I would prefer the M&P to be laying in a police evidence room.
The choice is ultimately up to the op and since he already has a 1911 buy the M&P.I like mine but they will never replace my 1911s.
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Old 09-16-2012, 12:38 AM
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I have a SS Colt Gold Cup and a M&P45 compact. My Gold Cup is one of the most accurate handguns I've ever shot and the only problems I've had with feeding are reloads that I didn't crimp enough. The trigger pull on the Colt is very light and crisp.

I've had the M&P45 since May. The first thing I did with the M&P was have a trigger job done. The trigger pull was so heavy it affected the accuracy. It was around 9 pounds. A gunsmith took it down to 5 pounds. It is not as accurate as the Gold Cup but for its intended function it doesn't need to be. I've put several hundred rounds through it and so far it ate everything without any problems. My Gold Cup is my paper puncher but the M&P45 is the one that stays loaded and as soon as it gets cool enough to wear a jacket I plan to carry it.
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Old 09-16-2012, 09:17 AM
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I would have to come down on the side of the 1911. The 1911 is exceedingly easy to work on and I've found mine to have accuacy that is excellent. BTW, mine is the Ruger SR1911 of which I now have two. As for why two, it's simple, one will get the Ed Brown Bobtail mainspring housing and grip modification.

As for the accuracy of my Rugers, they are too close to call a difference. One thing I really appreciate is the sights, they are easy to see for even this old fart who normally can't focus on handgun sights anymore. I've shot both Rugers to 1.5 inces at 50 feet so I'm quite happy with their accuracy. About the only real negative with my Rugers are the magazines, they are not nearly as smooth to load as Wilson Combat magazines so I've stocked up on Wilson 47-D's and benched the Ruger Magazines. BTW, the Rugers are Combat Sighted with 230 grain bullets, something that I prefer. When focusing on the sights is difficult having the dot in the front sight correspond to the POI makes it easy to score well. In addition since my Sigs and revolvers are Combat sighted it means I don't have to adjust my sight picture for the Rugers.

Muzzle flip. Really, are we going to bring that up. First, the 4.5 inch M&P weighs in at about 30 ounces and a steel 1911 will run 38-39 ounces. That lighter weight will pretty much negate the advantage of the slightly lower bore axis on the M&P. In addition I think that muzzle flip is way way oversold on both the internet and in gun rags. The plain and simple truth is that only about 1 to 2 percent of handgun shooters come even close to a firing rate where muzzle flip will impact their split times for accurate fire. BTW, I have a CED 7000 that I train with so I know my split times, how many others here use a shot timer?
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  #38  
Old 09-18-2012, 07:51 AM
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Default On Home defense:

At typical home defense distances, often measured in feet, accuracy is not an issue. You don't need a gun that can shoot 1/2" groups at 25 yards. Reliability and your ability to handle the gun competently is everything.

I own both an S&W 1911, the plain vanilla model, and an M&P .45 w/4.5" barrel. Both guns do nightstand duty along with a Glock 19, depending on what I had used that day---easier to put it in the nightstand than to open the safe.

If you keep both guns clean, use quality magazines and factory ammunition, you'll probably not have a problem.
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  #39  
Old 09-18-2012, 07:57 AM
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Ken NC, get both. You won't regret it
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  #40  
Old 09-18-2012, 10:11 AM
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I'm a huge fan of .45ACP pistols. Have owned many nice 1911 variants in the past but own none of them now. In my opinion the M&P45 is the best of the M&P line-up. My personal favorite is the mid-size model, same gun as the compact but with a full-sized grip (0.7-inch longer) and two additional rounds. Concealable, reliable and comfortable to shoot.
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  #41  
Old 09-18-2012, 10:19 AM
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I'd go M&P 45 more reliable. Plus the saved money will get a good amount of extra mags. That is a lot of boom boom.
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  #42  
Old 01-12-2013, 09:13 PM
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Thumbs up Great feedback

This is a very informative thread. Great information for a novis such as myself. I can't wait to get my first M&P 45. Thanks everyone. I look forward to talking with you.
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  #43  
Old 01-07-2016, 09:38 PM
River Walleye Guy River Walleye Guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S. Kelly View Post
I picked up a used M&P45...suck trigger and a terrible finish (lots of factory milling marks and divots that were melonited over)...
My M&P 9 Pro Series has the same factory quality all my SIG Sauers have had (no mill marks, great finish). Shoots 100%.

I've been dabbling in the "should I go 1911" world, too. Thanks for the posts.

Last edited by River Walleye Guy; 01-07-2016 at 09:39 PM.
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  #44  
Old 01-07-2016, 11:44 PM
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I read that per the 1940 War Department field manual, mean radius at 25 yards with muzzle rest was 0.86" with 800 fps GI ball and a 5-6.5 lbs trigger pull.
*I* can't do that!
I do know that all the ones I owned or that were issued to me shot anything fired through them without problem, and I have often gone to the range with our professional military son, taking a 1911 (not an A1), a WWII 1911A1 that appears original to the era, a Series 70, a (modern) Remington, Sig Scorpion Carry, Springfield Champion Operator Lightweight, S&W 1911Sc and PC-RB, and bounced golf balls out to 30 meters or so off-hand with all of them. My Sig 220 can do that, too.

While I have observed what might have been so-called "limp-wristing," I have never experienced it even when holding the gun loosely in my hands.

Armorers told me that magazines are critical to 1911 reliability. I've seen that proven myself. After that, the recoil and firing pin springs are important, and the relief of the chamber mouth is critical to hollow point ammo. Even so, I've fired hollow point ammo (Speer Flying Ashtrays and Federal Gold Dot) in every one except the non-A1 with no feed problems.

People who say cleanliness is critical forget the gun was designed to shoot when full of dirt, and in Vietnam I shot one dry and filthy with dust with no malfunctions. Ones built to tight tolerances will have problems that must be identified and addressed.

Butchersmithing is common, and owner so-called polishing of that chamber relief, or the feed ramp of pistols that have them, is almost a guarantee of trouble.

I have a S&W M&P357 that is utterly reliable with everything I shoot through it. The striker system is true "point and click" simplicity. I recently put the 1,000-th round through it, not including those fired in competition. It gets cleaned when I think about it, greased and oiled at every use, and I've fired it with a heavy light mounted on the rail. It just doesn't stop.

Better? Best? Pointless questions. If it works and you like it, shoot it.
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  #45  
Old 01-08-2016, 09:58 AM
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I have both. For quite a while I carried my S&W 1911 as a duty gun. It's always been reliable and I can shoot it well. That said I was always aware of the weight of the gun and low capacity while strapping on my duty belt.

I have 3 M&P .45s in the safe. My mid size has the Apex DCAEK kit. It's lighter, has more bullets and I shoot it darn near as well as my 1911. After some consideration I made the change to the M&P as my duty gun. No regrets.
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  #46  
Old 01-08-2016, 01:12 PM
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Which gun do more people say is finicky?
The other one is the more reliable one.

Unless I'm bullseye shooting, any modern handgun is accurate enough for social work and nit picking is internet busywork.
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  #47  
Old 01-08-2016, 02:16 PM
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Wow, a 5 year old thread. Meh, this discussion will rage for many decades so, why not?


Quote:
Originally Posted by cb4017 View Post
That said I was always aware of the weight of the gun and low capacity while strapping on my duty belt.
Interesting. You went to an M&P 45 because of the low capacity of the 1911? Do those two more rounds really make you feel that much better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McE View Post
Which gun do more people say is finicky?
The other one is the more reliable one.
Hogwash! I don't care what people say. It's what's really true that I'm interested in.

People "say" that the Glock is super reliable. If that's true, why is it the brand I see malfunction the most?
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  #48  
Old 01-10-2016, 09:50 AM
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I wanted to give a 1911 a try, picked up a new sr1911 cmd. Loved the looks, the history, the way it felt in hand ...but...it was not reliable. Could not get through a box of ammo without ftf,fte. Bought some Wilsonz mags and same problem. Sure could have sent it to ruger to have it worked on but I bought it for hd/ccw and I would never trust it. Sold it for a m&p45c and Havnt looked back. The m&p has been 100% reliable out of the box. Very accurate, softer shooting than my 1911, carries great. Ironically to get the 1911 I sold off a fs m&p 45...what goes around comes around
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  #49  
Old 01-10-2016, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shutupdata113 View Post
I wanted to give a 1911 a try, picked up a new sr1911 cmd. Loved the looks, the history, the way it felt in hand ...but...it was not reliable. Could not get through a box of ammo without ftf,fte. Bought some Wilsonz mags and same problem. Sure could have sent it to ruger to have it worked on but I bought it for hd/ccw and I would never trust it. Sold it for a m&p45c and Havnt looked back. The m&p has been 100% reliable out of the box. Very accurate, softer shooting than my 1911, carries great. Ironically to get the 1911 I sold off a fs m&p 45...what goes around comes around
Interesting. You tried one gun and the whole concept is garbage.

My M&P 45 failed to feed a few times when it was new. I have three 1911s that have never failed. Hmmm, using your logic, the 1911 is the way to go, right?

The answer is no. No gun model or manufacturer is perfect. To declare a type or model garbage based on one gun is ridiculous and ingenuous.
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  #50  
Old 01-10-2016, 01:30 PM
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I know it is an older thread, and the OP has probably made his decision, however it is still interesting.

I have been trying to decide between my Lightweight Commander and my M&P 40FS (not a .45, but I'm not worried about either round).

Both have been reliable, and are of similar size (the M&P being wider). I have trained with both, and have carried both. the M&P has more rounds, it a newer design, and is theoretical more friendly to a lefty like me. I want to like it more, but when it comes to walking out the door, I'll take the 1911 over it most of the time. Can't quite explain it.

YMMV,

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