Safe carry of a M&P Compact

[jimgansett]

Hi,
Not long ago, I won a S&W M&P Compact in 9mm with a laser sight and tactical(?) light mounted on a rail at a Friends of the NRA function. Having been a wheel gun guy all my shooting life, I never owned this kind of firearm before.

Checking it out at home, it appears there is no external manual safety. The only safety appears to be the magazine safety which stops the gun from being fired when no magazine is attached.

So, I guess my question is: Is the only safe way to carry this particular firearm with no round in the chamber? That would appear to be a problem if one ever had to use the firearm quickly.

[Arik]

You can carry it chambered without a problem. A lot of police agencies issue the full size MP9. Same gun, different size.

99% of modern handguns can be safely carried chambered without any safeties. They will not go off unless you pull the trigger

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

[Jyezahn]

Yes, safe with a round in the chamber. If you carry, just make sure the trigger is covered and you'll be good to go. It won't even fire if you drop it.

[jimgansett]

Thanks for the replies, I have always felt safe with my carry revolver. I guess never having a semi-auto I haven't had time to build up a trust. I do worry about jamming in a real life situation. With the revolver, if I pull the trigger and the round is a dud, just pull it again. This of course assumes the round is a real dud, not a spud... you know, the kind that lodges in the barrel instead of exiting.
In any event, I plan to take it out and use it and start to build up some trust in it.

Thanks again...

[Ksimons]

Nice win, you will love it. This is coming from someone that always thought my 686 was the way to go. Now the M&P 40 is my new close friend.

[danysw]

Congrats for you win. It's perfectly safe to carry your M&P9c with one in the chamber. You are not a newbie about guns. The best safety the M&P has is the same as your revolvers: keep your finger out of the trigger until you are ready to destroy something….. or someone.

[accessbob]

With a good holster there should be no problem. Just make sure to take your time re-holstering. Don't get in a hurry.

Sent from my LG Optimus Elite using Tapatalk 2

[Rastoff]

OK, you got your answer, but let me add some info.

The M&P is safe to carry with a round in the chamber because it has three passive safety systems in the gun. It's really two, but one serves two functions.

The first is a trigger block. That little hinged part on the trigger must be rotated back to allow the trigger to move. Of course, anything that gets in the trigger guard will do that.

The other two are a striker block and drop safety. Both are accomplished by the Striker Block. The Striker Block stops the striker from moving forward unless the trigger is held to the rear. So, even if the sear fails to hold the striker back, the striker block will keep it from hitting the primer of a chambered round.

The striker block also acts as a drop safety. If the M&P is dropped on the muzzle, there is a tiny chance the action could cause the momentum of the striker to hit the primer of the chambered round. However, with the striker block in place, the striker is prevented from moving forward and thus will not strike the primer.

All three safeties are automatically defeated when the trigger is pressed.

The short version; the M&P cannot fire without the trigger being pressed. So, it is completely safe to carry with a round in the chamber.

[ColumbusJBR]

A quick field strip should show you the internal safties in case you don't want to take our word for it. Notice that the trigger bar will not move rearward unless the trigger is depressed, aka the trigger safety or split trigger. The other safety is the firing pin block, which is the small metal plunger in the slide near the striker. The firing pin cannot move forward unless that plunger is depressed, which is done by that hump on the trigger bar, which only engages when you pull the trigger. This ensures that if somehow the sear were to disengage unintentionally (possibly by dropping the pistol), the firing pin is blocked from moving forward and the round won't fire.

So feel free to carry chambered, just make sure the trigger is covered

[ColumbusJBR]

Oops got beat to the punch

[WR Moore]

While what's been said above is true, add the following:
1. The weapon MUST be carried in a holster that covers the trigger area.

2. When about to holster/unholster, the area MUST be clear of shirt tails, clothing adjustment tabs/strings or any other item that might enter the trigger guard and operate the trigger while holstering/unholstering.

[jimgansett]

Thanks again to all, its been a real education for me regarding the M&P Compact. I feel a lot better about it. I've used firearms for 40 years, both long guns and wheel guns, so this is a first. Looking forward to practicing with it.

Thanks again

[Maddmax]

Originally Posted by jimgansett

Thanks again to all, its been a real education for me regarding the M&P Compact. I feel a lot better about it. I've used firearms for 40 years, both long guns and wheel guns, so this is a first. Looking forward to practicing with it.

Thanks again

Welcome to the 21st Century. I did a ton of research before I jumped in too. Never looked back since.

[checkmyswag]

I prefer thumb safeties plus a good holster but so long as you keep it in a good holster and watch what you're doing reholstering you should be good to go.

From what I understand that's how a lot of the "I don't need a safety its in my head" shoot themselves, while reholstering. If your holster collapses or is otherwise floppy or you catch you shirt while reholstering then you have a good chance of an undesired discharge. Really though, so long as you mitigate the risks and TRAIN properly, you should be fine.

Now that mag disconnect...I won't go there.

[Rastoff]

The mag disconnect has no benefit beyond frustrating the owner.

[Justin69]

Originally Posted by jimgansett

Thanks for the replies, I have always felt safe with my carry revolver. I guess never having a semi-auto I haven't had time to build up a trust. I do worry about jamming in a real life situation. With the revolver, if I pull the trigger and the round is a dud, just pull it again. This of course assumes the round is a real dud, not a spud... you know, the kind that lodges in the barrel instead of exiting.
In any event, I plan to take it out and use it and start to build up some trust in it.

Thanks again...

When I got my first semi-auto pistol, several people I know said the same thing. "Dont you worry about it jammimg?" M&P's are awesome guns! I have a few thousands rounds through my fs 9mm without any problems. Like anything else, just keep it clean & lubed

[shawn mccarver]

Originally Posted by jimgansett

Hi,
Not long ago, I won a S&W M&P Compact in 9mm with a laser sight and tactical(?) light mounted on a rail at a Friends of the NRA function. Having been a wheel gun guy all my shooting life, I never owned this kind of firearm before.

Checking it out at home, it appears there is no external manual safety. The only safety appears to be the magazine safety which stops the gun from being fired when no magazine is attached.

So, I guess my question is: Is the only safe way to carry this particular firearm with no round in the chamber? That would appear to be a problem if one ever had to use the firearm quickly.

Actually, carrying this pistol with no round in the chamber is very dangerous. If you need it, you may fumble the hurried slide action required to get the pistol into action and you may get killed.

This pistol is safe, assuming it is in proper condition, to carry with a round in the chamber. Like a revolver, it will not discharge if dropped due to an automatic internal firing pin block. Also like a revolver, if you or anything else pulls the trigger, the weapon WILL discharge.

[accessbob]

Originally Posted by Rastoff

The mag disconnect has no benefit beyond frustrating the owner.

Well, it COULD have benefit IF someone managed to try to wrestle the gun from you. If you can drop the mag, at least they can't shoot you with the chambered round.

[Delos]

I was debating the magazine disconnect with 2 friends, at various times, back in the 1970’s perhaps.

Back then non of my friends had gun safes, and many had small children. They did not want to totally unload the pistol, preferring a very high shelf and magazine out and hidden elsewhere. Times change.

Chambering a round day after day can loosen up the bullet head rather quick in some makes of pistol. I have read that bullets can get pushed back and eventually create over pressure situations. I rotate top cartridges in the magazine so no one is chambered more than three or four times. Every several months.

My only kid accident was one day falling asleep on the couch. My pocket knife fell out of pocket onto the floor. Older kid (4?) opened it and the (3?) year old grabbed it by the blade (every kid wants what the other has).

Hard to be careful enough around kids. If Jesse James had such a pistol he could have removed his magazine before laying it down in front of the bounty hunter. (Don't you hate all the if's)

I got rid of one, in 9 mm years ago and have regretted it since. Never sell any handgun, particularly not that one.

[Rastoff]

Originally Posted by accessbob

Well, it COULD have benefit IF someone managed to try to wrestle the gun from you. If you can drop the mag, at least they can't shoot you with the chambered round.

Two things. First, if the guy is close enough to attempt to wrestle the gun away, you allowed him to get to close in the first place. Second, if you're in a wrestling match, are you really gonna be able to drop the mag? I'm sure your concentration will be on surviving more than dropping the mag.

Besides, if the guy is focused on the gun, you have ample opportunity to do a lot of damage to him with all the other tools you have at your disposal.

[Delos]

If someone wants to wrestle for your gun, the rules are out the window. Being a less trained civilian (not law enforcement) has some advantages. If at all in position a forehead smash (head butt) to his nose is sometimes appropriate. Knees should find a target or two.

When I was young and wife full of spunk I tried a jujitsu hold on her from a book. I gently pulled her left arm across my chest with my left arm, with her elbow reversed against my chest and my right arm over her upper arm and my fist behind her elbow. Just like it showed on the cover. Then I made the mistake of asking if she could get out of it. She bit my upper arm very firmly and happily and the class was over.

If someone grabs your gun, first think “what would a woman do”. Next after that visual think “what would an outlaw biker chick do”.

[Delos]

Originally Posted by jimgansett

Hi,
Not long ago, I won a S&W M&P Compact in 9mm with a laser sight and tactical(?) light mounted on a rail at a Friends of the NRA function. Having been a wheel gun guy all my shooting life, I never owned this kind of firearm before.

Checking it out at home, it appears there is no external manual safety. The only safety appears to be the magazine safety which stops the gun from being fired when no magazine is attached.

So, I guess my question is: Is the only safe way to carry this particular firearm with no round in the chamber? That would appear to be a problem if one ever had to use the firearm quickly.

In case this has not been covered in the correct language? Carrying one of these is really similar to carrying a revolver. In a revolver the hammer is fully down. In most of these polymer pistols the hammer (Striker) is half cocked and "must" be cocked the rest of the way by use of the trigger.
My original Glock 17 (apparently they now call it a generation one) has a trigger pull of about 3.5 lbs (three and one half pounds). Really nice but really scary if a person was to consider jaming one of these under belt without a holster.
The New York police department required 9 pound springs on theirs. I believe Glock slowly increase trigger poundage on all models. I have read that my Glock 22 in 40 cal has a 6.5 lb trigger. I have read that others go 8 pounds and higher.
Anyway scanning the internet I see most say your trigger is 6.5pounds. So in ours the triggers are half what a double action revolver shooting double action usually is. For most of us that have done a little shooting that is a good place to be.

I will be buying one like yours, in 9mm, when my wife relaxes a little after my last three pistol purchases that I seldom shoot.

Now I will wait and hope someone who owns one like yours corrects me anywhere.

[SMMAssociates]

Delos:

The M&P striker basically doesn't move (actually, the sear causes some minute movement) when the trigger is depressed. Some Tupperguns draw the striker back first. (I had an XD9SC that did that.)

Overall, though, it's pretty much the same as a revolver in terms of an accidental discharge, and it will take too long to chamber a round unless you have a good deal of notice.

This is usually called "Israeli Carry", because allegedly the Israeli's were passing out whatever guns they could get their hands on, and it was just simpler to teach the recipients to leave all the safeties off.

It also was assumed that some notice might be had - terrorists jumping on a school bus, perhaps - rather than an individual feeling out a robbery by asking for change or cigarettes. It was also assumed that the action likely would result in more than one "good guy" making ready, and somebody would get successful....

As to the mag safety, IMHO, you probably wouldn't be able to drop the magazine in such a situation. It has happened, and has apparently been useful, but unless you train the heck out of it, it's more of a nuisance.

Backing off just a hair, it's probably NOT a good idea for an LEO to remove a manufacturer-supplied safety device. Liability issues all over the place. The rest of us won't have the potential "big pockets", and may not be a nearly as much risk, and I have to add, "if anybody notices".... In the case of the M&P series, S&W can supply the necessary spring to replace the pair that the mag safety requires, but you can fudge that, too, if you want. What you get stuck with, though, is the wording on the side of the gun and a mag safety that's no longer present. YMMV, unfortunately.

Feel comfortable with the thing - you don't have the hammer coming back or the cylinder rotation of a wheelgun, but the overall feel is quite similar. As long as the trigger is enclosed, and you keep clothing & such out of it, it's not going to discharge. I've seen more than a few revolvers that basically need the same warning. The biggest difference is that you're putting what amounts to a cocked revolver into your holster, which would be scary, but with essentially the full DA trigger action that the revolver would need if uncocked. I won't say that you can't accidentally discharge it, but you have to be both seriously unlucky and work at it, too....

Regards,

[checkmyswag]

I think if you are mentally looking to drop the mag you have psychologically given up your gun already. Instead your devotion should be to retain the weapon and create distance between you and the attacker.

[Arik]

I dont like mag safeties but you guys are looking at it very one dimensionally.

Originally Posted by Rastoff

Two things. First, if the guy is close enough to attempt to wrestle the gun away, you allowed him to get to close in the first place.

You assume that the threat was visible from far away. What if that guy is the guy behind you in line, a the bus stop, train station, sitting next to you at the movie theater. Have you seen the video from NYC where some guy pushes another man of the platform and onto the tracks of an oncoming train? It was on the news about 2 months ago. I know we cant foresee every situation but we let people close every day and none of them have "Im a bad guy" written on their forehead.

Originally Posted by checkmyswag

I think if you are mentally looking to drop the mag you have psychologically given up your gun already. .

Could be your gun has been taken already, all you have is one finger one it and its no longer in your control. There was a video (Ill try to find it) where a cop got jumped by an attacker who was younger, faster and stronger. Beat the cop pretty good and grabbed his gun. In the struggle for the gun the cop managed to hit the mag release. Perp tried shooting but was unsuccessful.

Now I dont like the mag safety .....or the thumb safety or any of them but there are times when they do come in handy. There is a bad dude out there who is stronger, faster, more aggressive then you, possibly on drugs, who you might one day run into. Its good to have as many bases covered as possible.

[Maddmax]

Originally Posted by Rastoff

Two things. First, if the guy is close enough to attempt to wrestle the gun away, you allowed him to get to close in the first place.

You never should let them get that close in the first place.And a moments hesitation is you worst enemy.

[Maddmax]

Originally Posted by checkmyswag

I think if you are mentally looking to drop the mag you have psychologically given up your gun already. Instead your devotion should be to retain the weapon and create distance between you and the attacker.

It also shows the lack of proper training. They need to take a more advanced class. Some people stop "learning" after their first safety class,but need to take more advanced classes to get up to snuff. If they are going to carry for protection,they need to know how and when to use it or leave it at home.

[Rastoff]

Originally Posted by Arik

You assume that the threat was visible from far away.

Not at all. If the threat wasn't visible from far away, you didn't have the gun out in the first place. The gun isn't even in play at that moment. So, dropping the mag to make the gun safe is a moot point in your argument here.

Originally Posted by Arik

Could be your gun has been taken already, all you have is one finger one it and its no longer in your control.

If the gun is taken already, how are you going to drop the mag? Again, this argument holds no water.


Look, I'm sure you'll be able to find several situations where someone was able to drop the mag and thus prevent the bad guy from shooting. Those will always be the exception. The point is, using this type of thinking in favor of having a mag disconnect is not valuable to self defense training.

Further, it makes more sense to be able to have the gun fire that last round even though the mag is out. It's much more common for the mag to accidentally drop. Thus I want the ability to at least shoot the one round before I have to insert another mag rather than having an inert gun.

I could go on, but his is way off topic here. The M&P is a safe gun to carry with a round in the chamber. If we want to talk about details like the mag disconnect, we should start a new thread.

[Delos]

Originally Posted by jimgansett

Hi,

So, I guess my question is: Is the only safe way to carry this particular firearm with no round in the chamber? That would appear to be a problem if one ever had to use the firearm quickly.

I like to think of them as if you were carrying a revolver at half cock. A revolver that could not possibly have the hammer drop from half cock - because a safety must be pushed by the trigger being "all the way" to the rear.

There is also doubt that it could ever fire from the low spring tension at half cock, if there were no safeties on the pistol at all, and if the striker could somehow get past the trigger linkage (not possible).

It is rare operator error, but this type of action handguns have fired when a person is quickly jamming the pistol into holster with finger still on the trigger, with finger forced against the holster and trigger. Or with a very soft inside belt holster that had a wrinkle into the trigger guard when holstering. Or when clothing gets bunched up inside the trigger area when holstering. I am not aware of any injuries but one guy with another make (glock perhaps) was holstering his pistol when seated in his car and did burn his leg a little and put a hole in car seat and floor.
Most of the accidents I have read about was first generation glocks with 3.5 pound triggers. No factory pistol has that low a trigger pull, from the factory, anymore, that I am aware of.

You have probably read about all the numerous accidents with revolvers. One security guard years ago was seated in his car getting board one night when he began emptying his revolver and dry firing at his toe. One night he blew off his toe. One should never use any gun as a tool to stay awake. (The list is endless)