You are on the right track Maddtrapper. I get a kick out of reading theses posts. Lets just say i work for a company that trains LEOs (local to federal) and some military. Our mission is to increase the efficiency (success) rate during actual engagement. We teach both from mental and physical perspectives. LEOs hit 3% of their target at 15 yards, 8% at 7yards, and 13% at 3 yards under stressful conditions. The military is surprisingly only slightly higher ( different type of training). In most civilian encounters you won't have time to draw your weapon...if you're lucky you might be able to throw it at the subject. Our weak minds just don't think that fast. So other means need to be utilized to defend yourself.

I read these posts and get the impression that a few may have police training but most are gun lovers and range hounds who have no idea (but think they do) what it's like to defend your life or the life of others. You talk about calibers and stopping power....really? Until you have real life experience in a combat (civilian or military) situation and are actually trained to deal with these types of situations, please don't comment because your opinions don't matter. It's all 'I read an article and go to the range so I'm now an expert'...really??? are you kidding me? Please don't pretend to know how to handle yourself in a real situation because I can guarantee that 99% of you will fail...I don't care how much range training you have. You just don't understand (and never will) the state of mind of an offender and how they will predominately have the upper hand, especially in a home invasion situation. Your range time won't matter. I can count on one hand the people I would trust to be by my side during an actual encounter and none of them are LEOs...but i deal with people with unusual skill sets. Most people I have dealt with in my career and 49 years of life can't handle (mentally or physically) a real life encounter successfully.

Enough said....enjoy your fantasy posts. And please don't respond to this post unless you are qualified to do so. On second thought, please do. My colleagues and I need a laugh now and then.

I completely agree with what you quoted and said. I have a question. What caliber do you use daily for CCW?

What is the criteria and who desides who the "EXPERTS" are?

Someone has the opinion that a 380 isn't enough fire power to trust your life with and some might think that's snobbery. Others talk about shot placement being the key and being more curcial than caliber.

That's the funny and true thing about life. Everybody has free will and at the same time everybody has different abilities. Toes seem to get stepped on easily and nobody is satisfied until they feel they've done their best to cast their belief upon everyone else. Someone is always going to disagree with someone else.

Everybody knows people like this in their own family and probably hundreds more that post on the internet. Sometimes it's best to let a person have their belief, it works for them, and just move on.

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

😄. The million dollar question and is the question I get asked the most. First, I'm an Illinois resident and can't carry when in Illinois. I am licensed in every other state. When I do carry I personally prefer the 9mm...right now, I train on only two...M&P 9c and the FNX 9. I just received the Shield and will start my training regiment and it will be in my rotation soon. I don't recommend more than two within a rotation but I spend 15 to 20 hours a week training (my personal training) I'm more comfortable , more accurate with the 9. I instruct people to use the caliber they are most comfortable with regarding action, ability to handle, control....then train, train, train. And just don't shoot at targets...create situational objectives..stance...positioning...lighting...stress control...breathing...draw...and on and on. I can talk hours on this topic...and i do

If your carry weapon cannot be thought of as part of your body than you are not ready. (My only issue with handing out ccw permits) I can present my weapon no differently than scratching an itch...i do without a lot of thought...its just instinctive...it's apart of me. I tell people to be, not just proficient, but expert with a weapon and be able to use it effectively and safely is a combination of mind and body...that's what we train to.

You can argue about what is the best caliber...an argument than will have no winner. I work with an individual that can eliminate a threat with a .22 faster than I can blink. Try having the caliber argument with him...I promise you will lose.

Not sure I answered your question. 😊

Yes .. you did answer my question. Oh, I also have a PMR30 that I love! I have had guys argue that it isn't deadly .. lol

What concerns me as so many I know who have CPLs (concealed pistol Licenses) never practice draw from their holsters (most pull their gun out of a box) they just stand at the target and punch holes as tight of a group as possible. IMO, that's OK if you are practicing hand gun fundamentals stroking the trigger etc. But in a real life situation .. you better know how to quickly draw and point shoot effectively. That takes a lot of practice which very few people do.

Depends on what type of experts you are referring to. If you are talking about tactical, both offense and defensive, use of firearms...find out who the LEOs and Military seek out. 9 out of 10 times it will be civilian contractors.

Yup!

Agree 100%!

MDFI is great up here in MI. Steve and crew are great trainers!

I saw that. I really shouldn't be commenting but you read my other posts. Just be careful who you take advise from.

I've heard of them. Great reputation.

I know them too. Steve is a friend and has taught me much .. and I have a loonng ways to go. In fact it was Steve who called me up leaving Schupbacks that they had a PMR in stock .

Worth the trip from any neighboring State for any class, I might add; The "gun community" here in MI are generally good people. If you're interested in a class, there are many people here who would give you a bed for the night or two. Just throwing that out there.

The next class I'm going to take is the YSINTG class. "You suck it's not the gun" Personally, I need that class. I've been working on the fundamentals, the way they teach it. But the class is still needed. The FFL I bought my Shield from, a trainer at MDFI, invited me to the YSINTG class tomorrow, but the funds aren't really there.

There has been training sessions where tactical units come in and want to show off their shooting skills. Most of them are awesome shots at stationary targets. You put them through situational scenarios under STRESSFUL conditions and the story changes. There has been times when officers left after the training questioning their ability to handle situations under stress.

Yes you are correct...it's not about shooting at targets.

I hear you. I have family in MI. With my extensive travels, sometimes taking me out of the country, I haven't been up to visit in years.

Its great you are taking classes. You can't just possess and be expert. I say expert because when it comes to the potential of saving your life of lives others you better damn well be an expert. Some say I'm extreme but I expect that of our LEOs. Ask yourself, would you want your local LEO protecting you? Can you be certain they have the RIGHT mental and physical training? I will tell you this, I have friends that spend more time and money obtaining the appropriate training than most LEOs I've dealt with. That's unsettling to me.

We're on the same wave. My military training is my downfall as far as getting the job done and protecting my family. Re-learning to fight with a knife and hand gun is a whole ball of confusion for me.

Things in MI are getting worse by the day. LEO's are getting cut from the budget non stop.

Pisses me off, my daycare for my 3.5 YO, the daycare lady can't have a gun in the house, due to state law. When I drop him off or pick him up, legally I cannot carry. But some meth head can come in and start blasting the kids away and all they can do is call 911.

One of my SNCOIC's once said "Common sense is an uncommon virtue".

Yep. As they say, gun laws don't affect the criminals, they hinder the law abiding citizens. Good luck!

When did Illinois get CCW? Or are you just opining?

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

My everyday carry is the M&P40c; had a BG380 and sold it, this might just fit that niche the BG380 left open; want to get my hands on one (M&P40 Shield) but like I've been reading they won't be out until the end of the month; must be patient!

Not one gun or one caliber is right for everyone. For me the .40 is a bit too snappy, and IMHO, the 45acp is less than. But I do know a good number of people who swear by it. I'd still really like to shoot a Shield in .40!

No CCW in Illinois...yet. Getting close though. Been hoping for many years.

OK, I didn't think so, so I googled after I post and found an article about a possible loop hole in the law published in a Chicago paper. Then noticed the date of the article was from 2000.....

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

Yeah. Pike county in Illinois passed an ordinance allowing conceal carry but it can't supersede state law. If other counties follow suit it will definitely help. It's a start.