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04-23-2012, 09:49 AM
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I fired an entire magazine of .380's through my M&P 9c
I was at the farm with my oldest daughter and we had a .22, a BG380, a M&P9c and a M&P40fs. I wanted my daughter to try them all and I had all different boxes of ammo out, from Win WB to reloads, FMJ to HP. We were going to shoot about 800 rounds at clay pigeons, reactive targets and old refrigerators.
I remember loading the 9c mag and thinking the last round was weird. It really took a lot of force to get it in the mag, then it didn't seat quite right. I thought maybe I was crushing the spring. I walked onto the range and after the first shot I smiled and thought this 9c has such a light recoil I just LOVE it!
But the next pull of the trigger was a click. I racked the slide and ejected the empty round. It fired and then click. This went on for the entire magazine with me thinking I must have a shell pinched in the bottom of the mag causing the follower to jam or something. Each round had to be hand ejected.
It wasn't until I went back to the bench that I realized I just shot 13 rounds of .380 from my 12 round 9mm magazine....
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04-23-2012, 10:01 AM
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For a minute I thought that this was another review of a BG 380!
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04-23-2012, 10:49 AM
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380
the 9mm headspaces on the case mouth, the 380 was just being caught buy the extractor. i would not do that again.
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04-23-2012, 10:50 AM
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It took you a full mag to notice you had the wrong ammo? And you admit it in public? Stay safe!
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04-23-2012, 10:58 AM
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i almost had this happen on my Taurus millennium once.except when i racked the slide the entire round flew out of the barrel at about 3mph haha didnt even stay in the gun, just plop......right out the front haha
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04-23-2012, 11:37 AM
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Um......wow a malfunctioning gun is never a "safe" gun. logic would dictate that if you experience a malfunction you immediately stop shooting said gun, and check all issues that may be causing your malfunction, not continuing to fire all 13 rounds and continue to do so when each one cause's a malfunction.
I'd say consider yourself extremely lucky you were able to walk home from this and maybe it's time to rethink your safety practice's with firearms.
I'm not trying to be an ***** here but seriously I don't want to hear about a fellow gun lover being injured because of a "simple" mistake.
As for me when I'm firing multiple guns/calibers I always seperate them on the bench and group together to avoid ammo mixup even then as I load I always double check to make absolutely sure that I'm putting the right ammo in the right gun.
Stay safe my friend!
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04-23-2012, 12:30 PM
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Aside from safety, I'm wondering about barrel damage. I know that literally, the German term for .380 is "9mm short". So maybe diameter is not a problem, so to speak. Any thoughts?
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04-23-2012, 12:38 PM
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I would check with a S&W tech before firing that gun again .. to be safe.
Let this be a lesson .. NEVER force a gun to operate after the first failure to fire. Always double check everything. If you can't determine the cause for the 1st failure .. STOP
I also advise that you get your eyes checked. You should have caught visually that you were loading with the wrong ammo BEFORE you loaded all 13 rnds.
Last edited by kris7047th; 04-23-2012 at 12:45 PM.
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04-23-2012, 12:51 PM
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Lost Lake, Thank you. I'm always extra safe. Now I'll be extra, extra safe.
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04-23-2012, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aznav
Aside from safety, I'm wondering about barrel damage. I know that literally, the German term for .380 is "9mm short". So maybe diameter is not a problem, so to speak. Any thoughts?
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The .380 is a true 9mm and the bullet diameter is the same as the 9mm Luger. The barrel is safe.
The piece in danger is the extractor, which can be damaged or blown off by shooting too-short cartridges.
The only reason the .380 fired was being held back by the extractor.
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04-23-2012, 08:59 PM
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Yes the .380 is a 9x17 round if I remember correctly, and a 9mm is a 9x19 round.
I don't know why the .380 shells fired at all. I would think they would have fallen into the barrel and not been touched by the firing pin. But they did work, just didn't have enough blow back to rack the slide all the way.
And why didn't I check the gun? Well I had it in my mind that something was wrong in the magazine. That if I could just get the next round to cycle properly all would be well. Of course hind sight is 20/20 and you all have the advantage of now acting as Monday Morning Quarterbacks.
My point is, the .380 rounds worked in the 9, but didn't have the recoil to operate the slide.
As for damage, perhaps an armorer could chime in to give some thoughts, but if the bullet was being held against the breech face (or what I call the bolt) by the extractor the only place something didn't quite fit right would be the 2mm gap between the casing lip and the end of the chamber.
I can't imagine any damage would be done, but I'll let those who know chime in.
This is the first time in 40 years I have made this mistake, and I won't make it again. I'm letting you know this so maybe you won't make the same mistake. I'm not really looking for someone to tell me I'm an idiot or unsafe or need my eyes checked. I know the difference between a .380 and a 9mm.
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04-23-2012, 09:21 PM
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This happens more often than you think. Used to find severly bulged 380 cases mixed with 9mm in range brass at a commercial shop. Once saw a fellow rack the slide on a 44 Mag Desert Eagle and the round fell
out on the ground. Realized he had a 50 AE barrel on gun, oops
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04-23-2012, 10:54 PM
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A lot like shooting .40 out or a 10mm. You can do it but it isn't the best idea. I am glad everything turned out good for you.
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04-23-2012, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aznav
Aside from safety, I'm wondering about barrel damage.
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I'm thinking the same thing.
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04-24-2012, 01:30 AM
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The barrel will be fine, a .380 is a 9mm. Only difference is bullet weight and case length....id say your fine..
And damn all you lil Mr. Perfects, the guy made a mistake, he knows that, he surely didn't post it to get paddled by the internet. Wow..
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04-24-2012, 03:02 AM
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Wasn't trying to beat you up. I have *old eyes* and I have come close to doing what you did one time. But something didn't seem right so I unloaded the few rnds that I had loaded and did a comparison. Sure enough I caught my mistake early. Some of the 9mm hollow points seem to be close to the size of a .380 too, so I can see how it can happen. But if your gun is acting up after the first 1-2 rnds when it had never done so before, time to stop and check everything out.
Just glad that you were not hurt. This sort of a thing a a good wake up call to remember safety procedures.
And thanks for sharing ..
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04-24-2012, 03:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Lake
Yes the .380 is a 9x17 round if I remember correctly, and a 9mm is a 9x19 round.
I don't know why the .380 shells fired at all. I would think they would have fallen into the barrel and not been touched by the firing pin. But they did work, just didn't have enough blow back to rack the slide all the way.
And why didn't I check the gun? Well I had it in my mind that something was wrong in the magazine. That if I could just get the next round to cycle properly all would be well. Of course hind sight is 20/20 and you all have the advantage of now acting as Monday Morning Quarterbacks.
My point is, the .380 rounds worked in the 9, but didn't have the recoil to operate the slide.
As for damage, perhaps an armorer could chime in to give some thoughts, but if the bullet was being held against the breech face (or what I call the bolt) by the extractor the only place something didn't quite fit right would be the 2mm gap between the casing lip and the end of the chamber.
I can't imagine any damage would be done, but I'll let those who know chime in.
This is the first time in 40 years I have made this mistake, and I won't make it again. I'm letting you know this so maybe you won't make the same mistake. I'm not really looking for someone to tell me I'm an idiot or unsafe or need my eyes checked. I know the difference between a .380 and a 9mm.
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I agree with you. You realized your mistake, and certainly don't need to be scolded like a child.
If anything, all the guys that own .380's & 9MM's should thank you for the heads-up reminder to watch for that.
I defy anybody to honestly say they have NEVER made a mistake or a dumb move with a firearm, be it an accidental discharge, or even pointing it in an unsafe direction, etc.
Let's all just be glad nobody was hurt, and there's a lesson we all can learn.
P.S. Your profile says Army.
Thank you for your service.
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04-24-2012, 05:33 AM
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I did one round through my old M39-2 a year or two ago....
I loaded up a magazine with .380's and fired the thing. Ejection failed. A quick look at the casing after getting it out showed that I'd put the wrong load on the top of the magazine.
A quick check of the magazine showed I'd filled the fool thing ....
What surprised me was that the chamber & such fully contained the round - the case was damaged enough that gas should have gotten out, but nothing happened.
The .380's the same ball, more or less, as the 9mm, and pressures & such are nominally lower, so it shouldn't have hurt the gun any, but gas and case fragments could be an issue. (Particularly, IMHO, with guns with a "loaded chamber indicator" done with a hole in the chamber.)
Not to panic....
The real danger is the availability of some 9mm submachine gun rounds that are kinda +P++ that may still be around, and all kinds of rifle rounds that can be made to fit (often with some effort) into chambers, but are totally wrong for the rifle - excessive pressures, etc.
Regards,
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04-24-2012, 09:38 AM
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'Likes' to those who stuck up for me at my moment of vulnerability.
There was nothing wrong with the .380 cases that came out of the gun, and I don't understand why there should be. The chamber of a .380 is only .020" smaller than a 9mm. Maybe the pressure was so low it didn't stretch the case at all.
I got no powder blow back, no flames, no indication at all that anything was wrong except the light recoil and failure to eject.
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04-24-2012, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Lake
'Likes' to those who stuck up for me at my moment of vulnerability.
There was nothing wrong with the .380 cases that came out of the gun, and I don't understand why there should be. The chamber of a .380 is only .020" smaller than a 9mm. Maybe the pressure was so low it didn't stretch the case at all.
I got no powder blow back, no flames, no indication at all that anything was wrong except the light recoil and failure to eject.
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That would definitely indicate ammo, not the gun.
Again .. thanks for sharing!
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04-25-2012, 08:31 PM
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That is an easy thing to do my friend. I am happy all ended well.
I'm sure that is an error you will likely never ever do again. God Bless.
Vv
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04-25-2012, 09:10 PM
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Yes it is a very easy thing to do. Glad everything went well. The gun should be safe.
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04-28-2012, 10:18 AM
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lostlake
Obviously NO ONE on this forum EVER made a MISTAKE. You had the nads to come forward and expalin a situation that you had. Several people felt the need to systematically bash you for no reason at all. Rather than offering advise (which you prob do not need). I submit to all on this forum who choose to bash lost lake, to google the definition Mistake/Accident, then report back your findings.
That is all
Carry on
1SG
Out
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04-28-2012, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MP1SG
lostlake
Obviously NO ONE on this forum EVER made a MISTAKE. You had the nads to come forward and expalin a situation that you had. Several people felt the need to systematically bash you for no reason at all. Rather than offering advise (which you prob do not need). I submit to all on this forum who choose to bash lost lake, to google the definition Mistake/Accident, then report back your findings.
That is all
Carry on
1SG
Out
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I don't think the people who criticized him really had intentions to BASH to him. It was more of a knee jerk OMG shock and posted. All of us want him to be safe. But, coming on post after post accusing BASHING .. is doing the same thing you are criticizing. It only needed to be pointed out ONE time
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04-28-2012, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kris7047th
I don't think the people who criticized him really had intentions to BASH to him. It was more of a knee jerk OMG shock and posted. All of us want him to be safe. But, coming on post after post accusing BASHING .. is doing the same thing you are criticizing. It only needed to be pointed out ONE time
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Oh Ok, I am glad you cleared that up
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04-28-2012, 02:23 PM
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9mm and .380 are almost the same!
I did exactly the same thing with my Walther PPS 9.
I shoot Sellier & Bellot ammo for practice most of the time. I grabbed a box of ammo that was marked 9mm on the end tab. The first shot was perfect. Second trigger pull nothing but a click. Ran the drill and manually ejected the casing. Loaded again and exactly the same happened again. Time to take a close look at what's going on.
One of my friends asked if I was shooting 380's thru it and I said no. The box is 9mm ammo. I showed him the box and it was marked 9mm all right. He said the box was too small for 50 rounds of 9mm. I turned the box around and the other end tab was marked .380 ACP. I was embarrassed, but I did load 9mm in it, so I just learned a valuable lesson. Double check, double check, then load.
I'm posting photos of the box and end label here to show it.
Regards,
Gearchecker
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04-29-2012, 02:27 AM
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Gearchecker:
Language barrier?
I've seen .380 as "9mm Kurz", but not "court". Czech v.s. German?
I don't think I'd have made the connection. In my case, I didn't even look at a box - just grabbed a handful out of a ziploc, but missed the "short" part.
That case diameter difference, btw, is enough to allow a case to over-expand, IMO.
Probably shouldn't crack, but while these were good quality reloads, the case's history is unknown, and the brass does get brittle. The reloaders are letting us test for absolute quality. If the case comes back, it was good last time .
Regards,
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04-29-2012, 10:33 AM
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Thank you for posting your experience, Lost Lake. Posting your issue might help prevent other shooters from making a similar mistake.
I have heard second or third hand accounts of 9x17 fired mistakenly from a 9x19 chambered pistol. I am willing to bet that it happens more than most folks think. Boxes labeled with 9mm Court, Corto, Kratak, Kratka 9, Kurz & Skurt probably don't help.
As others have mentioned, inspect your pistol and especially the extractor thoroughly before firing again. My guess would be that your M&P suffered no damage. Can you post a follow up?
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04-29-2012, 11:22 AM
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When shooting similar ammo and gun types,care must bhe taken to keep evertyhing distinct.That lesson was imparted to me via loading .40S&W into a Taurus PT92 magazine.Not a good idea,keeping a .40S&W Beretta 90-Two and 9mm handgun in close proximity with nearly identical looking magazines.The only reason I didn't wind up shooting .40 caliber through my 9mm PT92 was my sudden awareness of the mag losing 7 rounds of capacity suddenly.
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04-29-2012, 11:34 AM
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About a year ago my FIL who is in his mid 80's loaded up a mag full of 9mm in his .40 and fired a round. Fortunately it didn't damage him or the gun. He sure didn't fire it a second time.
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04-29-2012, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yeti
Thank you for posting your experience, Lost Lake. Posting your issue might help prevent other shooters from making a similar mistake.
I have heard second or third hand accounts of 9x17 fired mistakenly from a 9x19 chambered pistol. I am willing to bet that it happens more than most folks think. Boxes labeled with 9mm Court, Corto, Kratak, Kratka 9, Kurz & Skurt probably don't help.
As others have mentioned, inspect your pistol and especially the extractor thoroughly before firing again. My guess would be that your M&P suffered no damage. Can you post a follow up?
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Follow up:
I refilled the mag with 9mm and fired another 75 rounds during that session.
I cleaned the gun yesterday and noticed more than the usual residue on the feed ramp and inside the slide. There is no damage and the gun still runs like a Swiss watch.
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04-29-2012, 01:49 PM
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Thanks for sharing that with everyone. It will make all of us a little more aware.
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05-01-2013, 05:48 PM
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Kind of a goofy trick, but you did not likely hurt the gun.
There was one agency that would train its people to deal with malfunctions by putting a .380 somewhere in a Beretta 9mm magazine.
The .380 would feed and fire, but not function the slide, so they had to rack out the empty and get back into action.
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05-01-2013, 05:58 PM
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Why would you put 13 rounds in a 12 round mag? After the first malfunction I would have checked to see what the problem was!
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05-01-2013, 06:50 PM
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DOH! Glad nothin bad happened.
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05-01-2013, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blkpitbull
The barrel will be fine, a .380 is a 9mm. Only difference is bullet weight and case length....id say your fine..
And damn all you lil Mr. Perfects, the guy made a mistake, he knows that, he surely didn't post it to get paddled by the internet. Wow..
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+1
No one is perfect. I had to buy a Kahr CM9 and Beretta Nano before I made the perfect choice in the Shield 9mm.
Russ
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05-01-2013, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Lake
I was at the farm with my oldest daughter and we had a .22, a BG380, a M&P9c and a M&P40fs. I wanted my daughter to try them all and I had all different boxes of ammo out, from Win WB to reloads, FMJ to HP. We were going to shoot about 800 rounds at clay pigeons, reactive targets and old refrigerators.
I remember loading the 9c mag and thinking the last round was weird. It really took a lot of force to get it in the mag, then it didn't seat quite right. I thought maybe I was crushing the spring. I walked onto the range and after the first shot I smiled and thought this 9c has such a light recoil I just LOVE it!
But the next pull of the trigger was a click. I racked the slide and ejected the empty round. It fired and then click. This went on for the entire magazine with me thinking I must have a shell pinched in the bottom of the mag causing the follower to jam or something. Each round had to be hand ejected.
It wasn't until I went back to the bench that I realized I just shot 13 rounds of .380 from my 12 round 9mm magazine....
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Wow. Now we will have a bunch of threads on "converting" your 9mm M&P to .380.
Oh joy.
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05-01-2013, 07:20 PM
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Oops, I'm glad nothing was damaged.
I find it entertaining when the perfect, internet experts feel free to berate others who have the guts to submit a post about making a mistake.
People make mistakes, it's all part of the fun of being human.
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05-01-2013, 08:34 PM
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Funny, I did a virtual double take. I was scanning through the new posts and I read the title of this thread and I skipped by it. Then I ran it though my brain and said, WHAT? Kind of gives a new meaning to "I fed it everything".
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05-01-2013, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson
Kind of a goofy trick, but you did not likely hurt the gun.
There was one agency that would train its people to deal with malfunctions by putting a .380 somewhere in a Beretta 9mm magazine.
The .380 would feed and fire, but not function the slide, so they had to rack out the empty and get back into action.
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Some of our range officers would do the same thing to those of us who carried 9s at the time before we were all issued Glock 21s
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05-01-2013, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snubbyfan
I find it entertaining when the perfect, internet experts feel free to berate others who have the guts to submit a post about making a mistake.
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Especially on a "zombie thread" from a year ago...
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05-02-2013, 12:04 AM
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The .380 will fire in the 9mm chamber since the extractor holds the round against the breech face sufficiently for the firing pin to ignite the primer. Upon firing the case rams against the recoil surface of the slide. It is not a wise move given the current difficulties in finding ammunition. Save the .380 for pistols in that caliber.
Just as an aside, a similar situation have more than once occurred when people were firing M-1 Garand rifles in .30-06 and inadvertently loaded 7.62x51mm/.308 caliber ammo. The rounds feed, fire and eject just fine. POI is usually lower on the target than what is normal using standard M-2 ball. There is usually no problems from this particular error. The casing shoulder is blown forward fire-forming to the chamber. Normally the fired casing ejects and the rifle feeds the next round. But of course it is best to fire any firearm with the correct ammunition.
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05-02-2013, 09:30 AM
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C'mon guys... I was beat up about this LAST year...
Now you have to find this old thread and pick on me again???
.
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05-02-2013, 02:41 PM
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I don't see how any damage could occur at all.
The shell is shorter. So it doesn't go as deep into the barrel. Everything in the back of the shell would be pretty much the same. If the 380 rounds were hot it prob would have even cycled fine.
Where in the world damage would occur or how it would occur shows me some folks are not well endowed in the world of mechanical understanding(s).
You made a mistake. You're only the millionth person to do this. Have a great day and sorry people are so quick to chop you down good sir :-)
Kmac
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05-02-2013, 06:02 PM
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This occurred a year ago & you're still getting scolded. Must be quite an echo here.
I give you credit for originally posting this. It's always better to learn from another's mistakes.
I'd like to say this would never happen to me because now I only use .40 cal. There's a reason for this.
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05-03-2013, 07:00 AM
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Never assume.
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05-03-2013, 09:24 AM
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Solution! Dump th'nines, get a .45!!
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05-03-2013, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Lake
C'mon guys... I was beat up about this LAST year...
Now you have to find this old thread and pick on me again???
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If it is on the www it never dies.
I will basically say the same thing I said back then. It was good of you to post your experience so that others reading this thread (forever ) can be reminded and learn.
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05-03-2013, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kris7047th
I would check with a S&W tech before firing that gun again .. to be safe.
Let this be a lesson .. NEVER force a gun to operate after the first failure to fire. Always double check everything. If you can't determine the cause for the 1st failure .. STOP
I also advise that you get your eyes checked. You should have caught visually that you were loading with the wrong ammo BEFORE you loaded all 13 rnds.
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Seriously!?!
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05-04-2013, 12:19 PM
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All the 380 pistols I used to own functioned with a blow back operation. I doubt the OP was in any serious danger at anytime. The extractor held the round against the breech and when firing pin hit the primer the case pivoted a very slight amount, probably .005" or less until it fired and reseated against the breech. The forward portion of the extractor claw was never in danger and I fail to see how the extractor itself was in any way stressed.
I'm not recommending the practice but I am saying some of the above posts are unnecessarily harsh. I appreciate the OP's attempt to share his experience and hope the knee jerk reactions don't serve to quash other like minded folks.
I once fired a 30/06 round in my 338 Win Mag. Now that was dangerous and my shooting glasses saved my eyes.
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Tags
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380, bg380, commercial, extractor, m39, model 39, ppk, smith & wesson, smith and wesson, submachine, taurus, walther |
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