Legality of aftermarket trigger parts

Not to be a wet blanket but I have a question regarding aftermarket trigger parts. Anyone know the legality of them if they are used for self defense? I have not seen much on this topic. It may just increase one's lawyer costs in court if you were using a non-stock trigger.

BTW, this is coming from a man with over a dozen revolvers and pistols that have triggers from Votquartzen, Powder River, S&W Performance Center, Clark, Ed Brown, and Ahlman's, so I am just asking, not criticizing. My only stock triggers are my carry guns. Kahr PM9, Shield, Sig 226 and a 340PD.

gnystrom said:

Not to be a wet blanket but I have a question regarding aftermarket trigger parts. Anyone know the legality of them if they are used for self defense? I have not seen much on this topic. It may just increase one's lawyer costs in court if you were using a non-stock trigger.

BTW, this is coming from a man with over a dozen revolvers and pistols that have triggers from Votquartzen, Powder River, S&W Performance Center, Clark, Ed Brown, and Ahlman's, so I am just asking, not criticizing. My only stock triggers are my carry guns. Kahr PM9, Shield, Sig 226 and a 340PD.

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Depends on where you live and the politics of your local DA. Would not mean a tinkers dam if you shot an unwanted visitor in the middle of the night in your home here in Texas even with a 12 gauge. All my hand guns have lighter than stock triggers. The secret is to keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire.

In a nanny state like NY it probably would result in a 1st degree murder charge even the perp was raping your wife while holding you at knife point. Criminals have rights too is the left wing mantra. DA would probably say you and your wife should have fled your house and you are a ultra right wing gun crazed lunatic. I lived in NY for 50 years and got out s soon as I could.

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I'm no lawyer nor do I know each and every state's law, but I think aftermarket trigger parts that alter the pull weight would only get you into trouble if it was an AD that shot someone in the process. If you're deliberately pulling the trigger in self defense and state it as so, I don't see how it makes a difference. The reason why ultra light combat triggers on defensive pistols are frowned upon is because of what could happen in my first sentence.

I have done a little tuning, but just on my competition guns.

The experts (Masaad Ayoob,Clint Smith,etc.) would tell that you should not pull the hammer back on a revolver switching it to single action in a SD situation. The lighter trigger pull could be used against you with an attorney claiming you didn't really mean to pull the trigger and had an AD and killed the guy. Same could be said for modifying the trigger on a semi-auto. There are some lawyers out there with an agenda who will use the lighter trigger pull against you if they feel somehow it was a questionable shooting.

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I understand all the above posts. I am not worried about ME shooting in self defense, I am worried how the prosecutor in the case views it.

Lawyers love altered parts in cars and guns because it can create a case for negligence on the part of the shooter/driver because of the "unnecessary" alteration.

This one topic baffles me on how people alter/ modify CCW pistols and not worry about the legal ramifications. My opinion, the less that the lawyers need to use against me in a self defense situation the better. I would never alter or modify any pistols I carry CCW and I would suggest that to anyone that does.

If you want to modify/alter / bling bling your competition pistols or range pistols, that's one thing, but a CCW firearms to protect your life and family I would never touch or alter the trigger. Just leave it stock. That's why pistols like DAO or with safeties are made so you don't get into a " Ooops!!!" situation.

Just my thoughts.

It seems we are giving far too much credit to attorneys here...

I know here in Montana the first thing the DA is going to do is strip the gun down and see if any after market parts are in the gun...............


(and then order a set for themselves)

Randy

Much will depend on where legal proceedings are held and what the specific circumstances of the incident are. For instance, what would be making headlines if George Zimmerman had an aftermarket "hair" trigger"? He is already on very questionable legal ground and I am betting that anything they could use against him would be brought up and paraded before the court/media.

Honestly, the stock M&P has a nice combat trigger system. If you want a great trigger in a stock carry gun, go to the 1911.

This question has been posted many times on many different forums. I think I've seen one response that may have had some sort of evidence that it might have been a factor in a case. But that's it.

Until someone posts a confirmed case where a conviction has been obtained because after market parts were used and just not because it was a bad shoot, I'm skeptical.

If you meant to pull the trigger and it was is deemed a good shoot then I remain doubtful that any criminal action would be taken. Civil action is a different matter entirely and the mother of the little angel that never did a bad thing in their life but was caught breaking into your home in the middle of the night and wound up shot could bring a wrongful death suit.

IANAL so take all this for what it's worth.

There may even be another angle to this issue. I wonder how the average juror would view the DIY gunsmithing that goes on with many trigger upgrades. Let's face it, modern guns like the M&P are so simple that many folks are quite capable of working on them, but that doesn't change how it could be spun to the average "soccer mom" juror that probably has never shot a firearm in her life...

One would think that if a professional gunsmith did the work, a case could be made that safe functioning was assured.

Rotty37 said:

This one topic baffles me on how people alter/ modify CCW pistols and not worry about the legal ramifications. My opinion, the less that the lawyers need to use against me in a self defense situation the better. I would never alter or modify any pistols I carry CCW and I would suggest that to anyone that does.

If you want to modify/alter / bling bling your competition pistols or range pistols, that's one thing, but a CCW firearms to protect your life and family I would never touch or alter the trigger. Just leave it stock. That's why pistols like DAO or with safeties are made so you don't get into a " Ooops!!!" situation.

Just my thoughts.

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The adrenaline rush caused by the life or death situation will completely over-ride any potential advantage that the altered parts would give you anyway. My self defense guns are box stock and my ammunition is factory, but that's another topic all together. My competition guns are altered as much as the rules allow.

There is a reason that Glock developed the "New York Trigger".

MichiganScott said:

There is a reason that Glock developed the "New York Trigger".

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Yeah, they're called New York Liberals.

I have a stock M&P9 and I was looking to get a Apex DCAEK and RAM install. Now, I guess not!

All I can add to this is if I'm in a situation where I have to defend my self or my family you can bet Your life Ill grab the first gun I can get my hands no matter what has been done to it. Besides where I live most of the Law Enforcement officers have work done to there carry pistols also and I wouldn't have a problem pointing that out in court just my 2 cents.

The issue here is not "legality". There is nothing in the law, as far as I know, that says you have to have a certain trigger pull weight. The issue is, can opposing counsel accuse you of having a too-light trigger pull, and claim you unintentionally shot someone? This can come up in a criminal trial, and the shooter can be made to look irresponsible for modifying their gun. It is much more likely in a civil trial. Opposing counsel make you look like somebody who unwisely made your gun have a "hair trigger". This makes you look irresponsible, and of course is the reason you ACCIDENTALLY shot their client. If it was an accident, they can go after your homeowners insurance, which probably has deeper pockets than you.
This happens, folks, which is why my carry guns have stock triggers. I can shoot them just fine that way.
Jim

Rotty37 said:

This one topic baffles me on how people alter/ modify CCW pistols and not worry about the legal ramifications. My opinion, the less that the lawyers need to use against me in a self defense situation the better. I would never alter or modify any pistols I carry CCW and I would suggest that to anyone that does.

If you want to modify/alter / bling bling your competition pistols or range pistols, that's one thing, but a CCW firearms to protect your life and family I would never touch or alter the trigger. Just leave it stock. That's why pistols like DAO or with safeties are made so you don't get into a " Ooops!!!" situation.

Just my thoughts.

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Rotty37 sums it up perfectly. Do any of us really need a target hair trigger in a carry gun? Leave that for the target guns. Years ago my Dad did alot work on a 1911 that was only for target use. I remember him telling me to NEVER use that gun as a carry weapon, as it had a hair trigger, & the grip safety was bypassed. Well he sure was right. Awesome target gun, but I'd never carry it. A lawyer would have a field day with that gun if it was involved in a shooting. GARY N4KVE

Armed Babysitter said:

Yeah, they're called New York Liberals.

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That, and the fact that their poorly trained officers were shooting themselves with 7 1/2lb trigger pulls on Kahrs so they took them off the approved list. Their Glocks have 12lb trigger pulls which I guess is enough for them. Maybe they should carry Nagant revolvers since even getting off a first DA shot would be a task.

NYPD brass to cops: Stop using Kahr K-9 pistol - New York Daily News

The only thing I see being an issue is if you put something in your gun that is made for competition. If it's something to make the reset shorter, smooth out the pull or take any slack out, it's not a "hair trigger". I still have yet to read a case about a gun's parts being brought up in a trial.

Considering there are factory trigger pulls and factory installed parts to make a pull lighter, what is the difference? I did read where a store clerk shot someone trying to rob his store with a .22lr target pistol. The shoot was found to be justified and that was that. Now we know target guns have lighter triggers on them so was it okay because it was a justified shoot and was the gun stock or modified? Does it matter if a gun comes stock with a 4.5-5lb pull or that someone brought a 7-8lb trigger down to 4.5-5lbs by dropping in a sear or polishing a part? The hard sear from Apex claims a 4.5 trigger pull which is just about right. I'd rather have a nice 4.5-5lb trigger pull to make accurate shots/0 misses than fight a 12lb NY Glock pull any day.

Think about it. Does it matter if I defended my self with a bone stock cocked and locked 1911 or a bone stock DAO P89? I could find stock firearms with a 3# pull or less all the way up to a 20# pull or more.

It's really all speculation until it happens but like I said, if you're defending your life and deliberately pull the trigger and state it as so, the mods to your gun are the least of your worries.

I have the APEX "DUTY/CARRY" PACKAGE

The END RESULT is a smooth 5 1/2 pound pull (Lyman digital gauge) that IS NOT a HAIR TRIGGER. My original factory pull on the Shield averaged 7.5 to 8 pounds, S&W advertises a 6 1/2 pound pull. The APEX Kit is a DROP-IN STRAIGHT SWAP-OUT OF PARTS (hardened sear, ultimate striker block, trigger spring), WITH NO PARTS ALTERATIONS OR GUNSMITH TYPE WORK NEED AT ALL.

i wouldnt worry about it. a justifiable shot is just that no matter what the pull weight of your trigger is. Just like using reloads for defensive ammo. Some people say thats a NO NO but, I trust my handloads alot more than factory ammo.