Fatal Accident with M&P in Detroit

[federali]

By now, you may have heard that a Detroit woman, hugging an off duty police officer from the rear, somehow caused his service M&P to discharge, killing her. There are numerous witnesses and the shooting appears unintentional. Investigators said the gun was in an I-W-B holster and that the officer may have staged the trigger. an IWB holster doesn't account for the lung/heart wound she suffered unless somebody isn't being truthful.

Anyone know about trigger staging with the M&P? I understand S&W has an advisory against it, or it is now part of their safety manual.

[southchatham]

Somethings fishy with this story, possible bad trigger job or the trigger was pulled. I thought it was in a shoulder holster.

[bobnieder]

Check the thread which was already in place -- she was " dancing up behind him on her knees and embraced him".

[George9]

I didn't hear about this. But I don't see how the gun would go off without a trigger pull. if there anything like Glock's striker fired they should be at half cock. any holster should cover the trigger fully so that you can't get to the trigger unless the weapon is at least partly coming out of it's holster. Now if this was a M&P 22 they are hammer fired single action only with out a decocker.So this could be another ball game .. Still very sad and I'm sorry to hear it. I could not imagine what she must be going through.George

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Originally Posted by federali

By now, you may have heard that a Detroit woman, hugging an off duty police officer from the rear, somehow caused his service M&P to discharge, killing her. There are numerous witnesses and the shooting appears unintentional. Investigators said the gun was in an I-W-B holster and that the officer may have staged the trigger. an IWB holster doesn't account for the lung/heart wound she suffered unless somebody isn't being truthful.

Anyone know about trigger staging with the M&P? I understand S&W has an advisory against it, or it is now part of their safety manual.

Staging the trigger? That's something one does with his trigger finger when intending to fire the pistol.

This guy was probably playing with the gun, and the witnesses didn't want him get burnt too bad, because it was obviously an accident. At least that's what I see as far more probable than any other explanation I've heard.

[DWalt]

As earlier stated, there is something more than fishy about this incident. Much of the news information I have read was obviously written by those with little or no gun knowledge, and/or an intent to obfuscate the situation. However, a Detroit party is not a party unless someone gets shot. Now it seems as though the departed was allegedly doing an "Exotic Dance" close to the ground behind the officer's back and this is the reason for the strange bullet entry angle. I have theories, but that's all they are. I wouldn't be at all surprised that there are many product liability and trial lawyers that smell blood in the water and are now preparing lawsuits against S&W and anyone and everyone in the Detroit PD who had anything to do with authorizing the adoption and use of the S&W. By the way, was everyone aware that the Detroit PD has recently dropped the use of the political correctness-motivated Federal .40 EFMJ round?

[Titegroups]

Sound like BS to me, too anxious to declare that there were multiple witnesses. Would have nothing to do with "staging" the trigger. The guns have a striker block built in which makes it very unlikely for one to go off unless dropped or having it's trigger pulled. Lets hear the REAL story, lets hope an internal investigation brings the truth to light.

[George9]

Dropping the weapon should not fire it. It is staged and locked in that point of staging till the trigger continues rearward! Not like a old Raven or Jennings zinc cast striker fired guns. george

[sophie]

How in the world would you stage a trigger without having your finger on it? The reports don't make sense. I thought it might have been a shoulder holster also but not so according to the reports. Nothing in the report makes any sense according to witnesses at the scene. Why do you need your gun at a party anyway. From what I have read they must be withholding a lot of information for right now.

_______
James

[George9]

I may be wrong here but I believe the firing pin is partly staged by cocking the weapon "Putting a round in the chamber with use of the slide"and it stays that way locked till the operation is completed by pulling the trigger. Let me add party staged is kind of half cocked. George

[scattershot]

The original story doesn't add up at all. How could a holstered weapon, pointing down, go off and strike her in the chest?

[Old cop]

Why would you need a gun at a party . . . what kind of dumb question is that? Most all LEO's are required to be armed 24/7 b/c they may be called upon in an emergency. It's not about "needing" a gun in a social situation, it's about being prepared when and if anywhere.

I'm so tired of hearing "why woud he need a gun at" . . .

[spricks]

I wonder if part of the investigation is going to be checking for bite marks!

spricks

[cgt4570]

I could see this happening if he was re-holstering. I have a scar down my leg to proove it's possible to catch a double action trigger shoe inside a holster just the right way to not feel it 'staging' before it goes off (I know better now!). Loudest shot you will ever hear. As for his M&P, I can't imagine it discharging while riding securely in his holster. As others have said, there has to be more to it.

[nipster]

Originally Posted by Old cop

Why would you need a gun at a party . . . what kind of dumb question is that? Most all LEO's are required to be armed 24/7 b/c they may be called upon in an emergency. It's not about "needing" a gun in a social situation, it's about being prepared when and if anywhere.

I'm so tired of hearing "why woud he need a gun at" . . .

I don't know that this makes them exempt to laws that exists in most states prohibiting possession of a firearm in bars or where alcohol is served. At least while off duty. Departmental policy does not trump law.

There have been some incidents locally where off duty cops + guns + fights = trouble and people getting fired.

[CAJUNLAWYER]

And THAT'S why I like my M&P with a thumb safety

[lamrith]

I saw a report that said the holster did not have a trigger guard. That makes no sense to me to have a iwb without trigger guard, but may add to why the ND happened.

[DWalt]

The original story doesn't add up at all. How could a holstered weapon, pointing down, go off and strike her in the chest?

The story is that she was somehow on the ground doing an "exotic dance" whatever that is, so depending upon her position, the bullet could have entered her chest or anywhere else. Maybe she reached up and grabbed something of the officer's she shouldn't have. Might say turning the crank on the family tractor and it backfired. I don't think whatever she was doing could be described as "hugging."

[Gauger]

And if the pants were undone who knows what direction the weapon was pointed in.

[Knightrider03m]

IMO, I think the gun was about to fall and someone tried to catch it.

I also think it was a cheap uncle mikes style of holster.

Once again, IMO, my $100 holster wouldn't be able to do something like this. Moral of the story is that you buy cheap, you get cheap, buy a good holster. I used a cheap uncle mikes holster when I carried my 1911. The almost fell out once and the clip on the holster was so weak that it couldn't hold the weight of the gun. Plus with that holster, you could use the trigger.

[ricklee4570]

It is all speculation until a factual report comes out.

[MIST]

Originally Posted by nipster

I don't know that this makes them exempt to laws that exists in most states prohibiting possession of a firearm in bars or where alcohol is served. At least while off duty. Departmental policy does not trump law.

There have been some incidents locally where off duty cops + guns + fights = trouble and people getting fired.

The State of Florida does indeed exempt off duty law enforcement officers from the restrictions placed upon "Concealed Weapon Or Firearm License" holders. The exemptions may be limited by policies set forth by the officers employing agency. Nothing in Florida State Statute prohibits an off duty law enforcement officer from carrying a concealed firearm anywhere within the State.

[scattershot]

So..... Any followup on this story?

[NUTTBALL763]

I would love to know what actually took place in this situation. The whole thing is really suspicious. As a LEO I don't go anywhere without a firearm. Like Mist said we are exempt from normal CCW rules unless your general orders sets a rule. It all comes down to being responsible in what your doing. To the guys getting into bar fights off duty probably are not responsible enough to have the firearm let alone a badge.

[Wee Hooker]

Originally Posted by cgt4570

I could see this happening if he was re-holstering. I have a scar down my leg to proove it's possible to catch a double action trigger shoe inside a holster just the right way to not feel it 'staging' before it goes off (I know better now!). Loudest shot you will ever hear. As for his M&P, I can't imagine it discharging while riding securely in his holster. As others have said, there has to be more to it.

My carry M&P compact has a mag disconnect safety. I usually pop the mag out a 1/4" before holstering the gun if it's loaded. Once it's firmly seated and the trigger covered, I snap the mag into place. I do it for just this reason.


As for thE rest of the original sketchy story: Somebody has some serious splain'n to do!

[kris7047th]

I have NO manual safeties on my M&P9c, but I do keep it in a good holster that covers the trigger guard until I draw my gun.
The whole thing has huge questions to be answered.