Bought an M&P 45 on Friday from Quantico Tactical. It is what I would call a 'tactical store' which sells firearms, and NOT a gunstore per se. I would say first that it is 'store policy' not to be able to field strip a firearm in the store. Some would say that 'it serves you right' to get smoked - fair, but not necessarily always applicable. I think I got burned a little, but may turn out fine. The following is for education/experience to others near a store or chain like this.

Friday I purchased the firearm, and before the sale, told it came with 3 mags. So... I stupidly didn't check before I took it to the counter. When I got to the car, I noted it had two. I took it right back, and the salesperson would not openly admit he told me that, and gave me the "store policy is no returns on firearms". Bad enough, but when I got home and was finally able to field strip to clean, I noted that: 1. The barrel was very dirty. 2. The rails were pretty worn. 3. There was plenty of brass residue on the slide breech face - more than one would see from a test fire. 4. The date of the fired round was April 2010. Yes, I could have looked into this before I left the store, but NEVER would have thought about it to even look at it.

I called SW, and unless it had had warranty work, they really would not know even if it had been sold on retail before. So, I called the QT Gen Manager, and kindly went through all of the above. After asking him to reconsider the policy, as this weapon has evidence of at least a range session or 2, he fell back into the "store policy" mode.

I only have to get burned once on this. Buyer beware. If you see a smokin deal here, look very carefully, and look at everything in the box, and do not trust what a salesman says. Verify BEFORE checkout.

I posted this ONLY after trying all avenues. I talked to the GENERAL manager of QT, and I don't think his response is adequate.

Is this the resolution to your thread about it being an actual "new" gun?
Thanks for the heads up, I'm not on that side of the state to often but I'll be sure to avoid that one.
It's unfortunate you got stiffed on the price but I hope the gun works out well for you.

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27-2, 66-1, 640 Pro, 10-5

I have seen and been by that store many a times but never going in. That is sad due to that store is basically right in the middle of MCB Quantico, located in what we call "Q Town". Not sure if you are military but that goes to say that he may be ripping military members off and that pisses me off being one. I will pass the word and stay clear of that place. Hell, if the word gets out eneough, he may lose a ton of business from the military members there. Thanks for the heads up.

Let's see some pics

Yes, I hate that too. Unfortunately there are stores/shops all over the states...

I don't know the location, but you might want to check if this shop is on the list of the Off-Limit Areas and Businesses to Military personnel.

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Jorge

No they are not:

They are also listed on S&W as authorized LE dealers:

U.S Law Enforcement Dealers - Smith & Wesson

My purpose is to warn not condemn. I do not have the where with all or time to get into pics, but I've spent 28 years in the Army and I don't lie.

My real problem is that they would not reconsider their policy at all.

The weapon MAY turn out to be a ringer - but if you were at a gun show and someone sold it to you as "like new" - you would balk. Again, light in the store is not that good, and I didn't even think to check if it was 2 years old - never crossed my mind.

My guess is that it sat on the shlf a heck of a long time, and someone took to the range to try it out - its the only thing I can figure. UNLESS it had oil in the barrel and the dust caked up for two years, AND the test firing was pretty extensive at SW.

Again, not aimed at QT in a sense, but this is what happened, and check the packaging before you buy. The MP 45s have a good rep, and this was the only one I've seen at a good price in the 4" realm local.

I'd tell them it is my policy to not pay for something that is misrepresented! You had no option to strip the gun in the store and verify the condition. Tell them you will stop payment on your credit card and see what they say.

Brian,

Don't take my post the wrong way. I'm not saying you are lying. I would just like to see how extensively used this thing looked. What did the barrel hood look like? Some pics would really help....either to confirm your suspicions, or to put your mind at rest.

Ya I would go along with contact your credit card company to stop payment on the gun.. Talk it over with them first about store policy and they will give you the best advice they can.. If you paid for a new gun you shouold have got a new gun! As Far AS THE #3 mag goes you would have to find out if in fact the model you got is one that comes with 3 mags.. If I remember right S&W has or had a deal going for a rebate or a extra mag but you sent away for it.. This may be the case..
I sure hope you paid with a credit card.. If not clean it up and just bite the bullet and try and enjoy the gun and don't deal with them ever again.. my .02 worth.. Best of luck!! George

I'm not a lawyer, nor have I played one on TV, but I'd check with an attorney before stopping payment on the credit card...I've read that it is a felony to stop payment on a check for a firearm purchase, so it may be as well for a credit card purchase. I don't know, and could be wrong...but better safe than sorry. Your credit card company may know (hopefully they would.)

They used to have some smoking deals on M&P magazines at the QTS across from Ft. Campbell. I bought 10 of the 14 round .45 mags there at $25.00 each. They are all full retail now plus about 10% unless you have a "Team " card which gives you a 10% discount. That is pretty much pricing on everything.
Their CS has always been poor and the staff is strange, to put it politely.
Sorry this happened but it sounds about par for the company.

It is strange just how strange the staff is about their firearms. Without boring with details, the staff doesn't seem to know much about firearms, and contradicts themselves, as in the case of the mags on this purchase.

I'll clean and shoot, as the MP 45's seem to be about the best of the line.

Out of curiosity I checked the QT website. Thye have 6 stores, all of which are in cities with heavy military bases. In their return policy they state the firearms can be returned IF the original tags are still intact. Something is very stinky about this situation. I am just trying to figure it out now. Initially I went to their website to send them an email in support of your complaints. A place this large has too much to loose by treating any customers as you were, but they would not be the first.
There are folks on this forum that carry a fair degree of weight pertaining to matters involving our armed forces. Please post photographs of everything except your reciept and your story will generate enough evidence to s*** list these guys for most individuals that read this forum. In short, speaking for myself, I have always found the members on this forum to be fair minded and support ethical behavior. I am just the average guy but I hate to see anyone, particularly men and women of local, state and federal services taken advantage of. I still like to tackle the one jerk that is corrupt and greedy. Give us some pics, good quality close ups and in focus. You do not have to deal with this alone.

Just about any store outside the main gate can be suspected of being a rip off. I am sure that is the same today as was in late 80s when I was stationed at Ft. Campbell.

Was the firearm being sold as "brand new" or "like new"? Two very very different terms. "Brand new" obviously meaning never sold before and shot a minimal amount of times since production (I'd say under 10 rounds for sure). "Like new" is nothing more than a sales pitch or marketing tool. The gun could be 10+ years old and still be "like new". There's no warranty behind that statement. The law requires that there is a specific warranty or specific false claim about an item for it to be misrepresented. For example, if they told you the barrel was just replaced with a new one, then you later find out that it still has the original barrel... that is a specific misrepresentation and, if you could prove it, would enable you to win your case in small claims court.

If the firearm was suppose to be brand new, I'd call the general manager again and give him one last chance to make it right. If he refuses, tell him that you'll be taking him to small claims court. Take pictures of the wear asap and file your claim. The fee is usually ~$75 and if you win, the defendant is forced to refund your court costs. You don't need a lawyer. Small claims court is a simple everyday avenue to resolve petty claims among citizens. Don't be afraid to use the system we have in place. Make sure you bring your phone records to show that you called in and talked to the manager on a couple of occasions. Proving that you made a fuss immediately after purchasing the firearm is going to be key to your case.

It's about principle. They're scumbags. Don't let them rip you off.

Great post firebidude.

This is in no way meant to criticize the OP but I can't ever remember buying any gun I didn't do a pretty careful visual inspection on. It does not require a field strip to look down the barrel or check the face of the slide or see a part of the rails with the slide locked open. Any time I spend several hundred or more dollars, I try to be thorough.

I don't have time for small claims, etc. Too busy.

I NORMALLY check all this stuff out closely. The reason I would not jump on a $400 9mm with 3 mags is because I really cannot check the barrel to slide fit at this shop.

I thought the trigger was good enough and did not even suspect it would look/appear used as ALL their guns are sold new - they have NO used guns. MP 45s have a great rep, so I was not as concerned to closely inspect everything.

Any store or agency showing indifference to customer justice and citing "policy" as their oh-so impenatrable roadblock is off the shopping list. Small indeed.

I feel it necessary to stand up for Quantico Tactical. I've been a customer of theirs for almost 12 years now having shopped mostly in the store in Q-Town, the Woodbridge, VA store, at gunshows and once at the Ft Hood Store when I was passing through. I've never had an issue and always found the people to be helpful and the products to be first rate.

I just picked up two 9mm Shields today and was in the store with about 10 other people doing the same. The clerk was busy as a you know what but he was professional and handled each of us in order, quickly and accurately to the point I was through the paperwork and VA background check without delay.

I'm hope my experience is indicative of many who have shopped at QT and is an indication of why they are expanding at a time of economic hardship.

As I recall, M&Ps come new with two mags. You can hit a sale or promo and get one or two more, but you usually have to send to S&W for them.

I'm also wondering about the price, it's an awfully good deal on any M&P 45.

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USAF Security Forces 1975-2003

I have never done business with QT. As I cited in an earlier post I checked their website and leared about them, including their POLICY that they WILL ACCEPT RETURNS on firearms if the original tags are still attached. As someone else stated, you can examine the barrel rifling, slide rails and breach face without field stripping the weapon. I will not condone the OP's complaint and call for abort on QT without evidence in form of pictures. There are 2 other threads on this forum regarding the same general story. Too busy, no camera etc...does not work. It is a serious charge to slander a company. There may be a reson for the OP's discontent, but I do not believe this story as is. The heart of our protection in this country is innocent until proven guilty, so that no innocent person is punished. As I say, the OP may have reason to want to see QT's salesperson's head on a stick in his yard, but I don't see anything but b.s. mudslinging without tangible evidence.

I checked the OP's profile and this is the first part of another post he has on this forum. "Went to an LGS. Let me say that this is NOT a full service store. They are NEW to have an FFL at this location, and it is primarily a tactical store.

Brought home a 'new' FS/mid barrel (4") MP 45. First even after they told me it would have 3 mags (LE sale), it only had 2. I know this is normal, but they had said 3. But... "all sales final", so I went home with it."
He proceeded to cite the "used" condition.

1. OP's profile list NONE for military or Law enforcement
2. Calls it a Local Gun Store
3. Claims it was a LE sale???

Back in the recent past Q.T. used to do gun shows in Va.It seemed there was allways some one at there tables complaining that they had been treated dirty by them. I guess thats why they quit the show circut in Va. BTW the owner was a real piece of work if he didn't agree with you he'd just treat you like a half-whit under ling.It was really hard for me seeing this to believe he was ever a Marine officer.

QT still does shows, I just saw them last week at Fredericksburg.

ETA - From the QT Website - M&P 45s come with two mags:

http://www.quanticotactical.com/brands/sw/sw.asp

__________________
USAF Security Forces 1975-2003

That's exactly what I'm saying, I want to see pics. If you have time to post and reply on a forum, you have time to post a pic. Still no answer to my inquiry on what the barrel hood looked like. I'm leaning towards the weapon just being dirty from the factory test fire.

To be fair...I don't have anything listed in my profile about being LE/MIL either.

RLTW

Quantico Tactical (QT) sells directly to LEO and military personnel. Civilians are welcomed to buy from them as well.

QT was one of the first guns shops I shopped at when I first got into M&P's. I bought 2 M&P's and a Springfield Armory TRP 1911 from them in the WA location. No issues at all. They were courteous, willing to discuss things and their discounts are very competitive.

As to finding your M&P barrel dirty, I am not sure if it is S&W policy to clean the gun after they test fire it before they ship it out. My understanding is that they do not clean it after test-firing. The original factory oil and the burnt powder may sit in there until the gun lands in your hands.

Regarding 3-mag M&P's, these are the LEO versions and they are not supposed to sell those to you with LEO discounts. If you have bought these with the discounts, consider yourself lucky.

Hello Everyone,

My name is David Hensley, I am the Owner/President/CEO of Quantico Tactical. Several of our customers alerted us to this thread. I have never been to this particular board, and although this is not the ideal way to introduce myself and Quantico Tactical to you guys, I definitely feel the need to address this issue.

First, let me address the OPs issues, then I will move on to address some of the "pile-on" silliness.

To the OP, let me say that I am sorry for what you experienced. It is my desire, and that of my team, that we have unmatched customer service. Obviously there was some mis-communication/mis-understandings plus some of our policies were not fully explained, so let me say the following:

- Number of Magazines in S&W LE/Military Pistols: When we signed up for the S&W LE Program, we were told that all LE/Military Program Guns come with three magazines. Turns out that isn't quite true. All of them come with three magazines with the exception of those that don't. Quite frankly, there is no rhyme or reason to it other than ALL .45ACP M&P pistols only come with two magazines. I am sorry if our team member who helped you said otherwise, but we sell the guns as we get them from S&W.

- Used Weapon: We sell only new, in box firearms. We do not deal in used firearms, nor do we take trades (although that might change in the future). I can absolutely, positively guarantee you that the pistol you received was in the exact same condition as it was received from S&W. Since I have not seen it, I cannot comment further on the condition, other than to say it was sold as received.

- Return Policy on Firearms: It is our policy that firearms are non-returnable. I cannot think of another retailer who accepts returns on firearms. That being said, my managers are empowered to make exceptions and perhaps the store manager in question should have made an exception in this case. Based upon what I read in your post, I probably would have made an exception and then give the next guy a good deal on it. I can tell you that I have been working with my mangers to be more leanient in situations like this.

Okay, on to other things:

Quantico Tactical is - by far - the largest S&W LE/Military Distributor. We do all of the federal government sales which S&W doesn't do direct and we have three states as exclusive state and local territory for Smith and Wesson. At any given time, we have over $750,000 worth of S&W inventory...none of our competitors makes that level of commitment. Further, we sell the LE/Military program guns at the "correct" prices, even as other charge more. We sell the "base" guns (9mm/40, Full Size and Compact with three mags) for $398. We sell our Shields for $329, when other LE/Military Distributors are charging much more.

Notwithstanding a few "haters" in this thread, we enjoy a superb reputation for customer service, selection and only selling high-quality apparel, gear and weapons. Recently, because of our reputation, we were selected (not paid our way in) as the "Official Police Equipment Supplier" to the FBI National Academy. Noone else has had that honor.

Are we perfect? No. But, 99% of our customers are extremely satisified.

As for the mud-slinging charges, I should just ignore them but I will address the obvious bull**** ones:

- "Not sure he was even a Marine" Comment: That is laughable. I enlisted in 1984 and retired in 2004 as a Major.

- "Always someone at there (sic) tables complaining that they had been treated dirty by them". Made by the same "hater" who did the above post. That again, is laughable. We offer the best value, the most professional setup and have the most repeat customers of anyone in ANY of the gunshow circuits we do (CA, WA, TX, KS, MO, KY, TN, NC, SC, GA and VA). The only people who would bitch about us at gunshows are other dealers who can no longer rip off the attendees by charging OVER MSRP for Magpul, Troy, etc.

- Ripping Off Troops: I know that the people who made these comments were refering to their experiences when they were in the military and their recolection of "We Finance E-1 and Up!" type of places. Rest assured, we are NOT that type of companies. Most of the employees in our stores are former military combat vets with some sort of physical disability.

Guys, that is about it. I will say this, I don't hide behind internet handles, etc. Here is my personal contact information:



OP: Please contact me and I will fix this.

Anyone else: Please never hesitate to contact me if you have any questions or concerns about any aspect of Quantico Tactical.

Semper Fi,
Dave Hensley

Well put and I honor such honesty and being so upfront.

Nuff said and said very well. So I will say just three things: First, Thank you Dave for 20 years of service to the USA; Second, Thank you Dave for hiring combat vets with some physical disability; and Third, being selected as the Official Police Equipment Supplier to the FBI National Academy validates your business integrity.

There is always the other side of every story. Nice to see QT address this customer issue on this forum. Thank You.

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44 Garrett Defender Ammo 4 me.

I have no idea about S&W's mag policy or the condition of the gun received by the OP or much of anything else concerning this issue frankly. But I do have to say that it was a stand up move for David to personally reply and not have some lackey do it for him or ignore the whole situation all together which some other companies do.

As a retired military officer myself, I am encouraged by Major Hensley's post. Now is the time for the OP to put up or shut up.

I will still not deal with Quantico Tactical in the feature based on a dealing that is going on right now. I had a revolver listed on GB and the winning bidder chose to use these guys for his FFL. They would not send me a copy of there FFL and wanted my FFL to contact them and send them a copy of his FFL for "verrification" before they would send theres to him. Again stating that it was "store policy", I think its BS and silly, been selling online for over 5 years now and never had an issue until now. I hope the OP gets his issues worked out and post some pics online so we can see his side of the story. It only takes a few minutes to snap a pic and post it.

It is interesting that the OP has been on this board as recently as today and hasn't posted on this threat since the 18th. Beginning to think it was a personal grudge he was carrying out.

Dave may want to read his own return policy.
it does not apear to read has he has stated.
rich

Smee78 & all. That FFL to FFL Fax is becoming the standard, at least where I live. MY FFL used to give me a copy of his license to send to my seller, but no more. I now have to take the sellar's FFL info to him and the two FFLs do their faxing, and the weapon comes in. The transfer fee has gone up from $25.00 to $35.00. The owner, a nice guy and a friend, tells me that after a colonoscopy by ATF agents, he can now only make transfers, according to the procedures that they laid out for him. He is still willing to ship guns for me and packs them for me at the same $35.00 rate, BUT will only ship UPS second day air, a $40.00+ charge. I don't do a lot of buying and selling, but it is comforting to know that I have NEVER had a problem with this FFL in the past 20 years. I will just chalk it up to a sign of the times!

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Doc Garrett
Dead Man's Doctor

Medxan, I dont know about fax but I have gotten alot over e-mail in the last few years. Also telling a FFL he has to send his FFL before you will send yours for "verification" is BS, next someone will want a notary to sign paper work and send it with there FFL to verify that they are who they say the are, where does it stop. I call my FFL and tell him I need him to send his FFL to "insert name here" with the address or e-mail address and its all taken care of, now where is my Staples "That was easy" button.........?

I think you are incorrect, I checked.. It clearly states no returns on firearms

About Quantico Arms & Tactical Supply

I have been in stores before where they did not allow the customer to field strip a weapon but I have asked them to do so for me and they have. Buyer should have checked it out to his satisfaction before he paid for it.

I recommend that you re-read his post.

P.S. Unless you already read it, and think that his website implies that unwashed, unworn firearms, ammunition and knives may be returned. It doesn't, but I can see where a quick reading might be confusing.

Hi Everyone,

Just a quick follow-up:

Return Policy: It appears that we have written the second amendment (damn commas). We tried to make it as brief as possible. I guess it is too brief. It should read: "We do not allow returns of firearms, ammunition or knives" or "clothing that has been....". We should put a period in there to make it more clear.

Transfer Policy: Quantico Tactical is much larger than it appears. As the leader of a large organization, I delegate a lot of authority to my team members. In addition to being a gun guy, our Retail Channel Manager has TONS of retail experience (Store manger for Toys-R-US, Store Manager/District Manager for Best Buy and Firearms Manager for the Marine Corps Exchange. Many of his firearms policies came from his tenure at the MCX. Although he has implemented some policies I would do differently, I find none of the policies he has put into place vis-a-vis transfers to be unreasonable, so I have not felt the need to override them. Specifically, they request a FFL from the SENDING FFL because he requires his store managers to put the sending FFL's license number in the bound book vice their address. It is more clear and it is what the ATF prefers. I guess my question to SMee78 is this: Why is it a big deal for the sending FFL to take 10 seconds of their life and FAX/e-mail a copy of their FFL to us? On a related note, we have a current project of developing a FFL xfer form with clear instructions and an explanation of the process we follow.

OP: The OP called me today, but I missed his phone call. I'll give him a call tomorrow on my way to the airport (I'm going to San Diego to for the IACP conference). I am sure we'll get this worked out.

Dave Hensley

Mr. Hensley:

It is very refreshing to see someone in your position go through the trouble of addressing this issue. You could have easily ignored the thread, or delegated someone else to address it.

I am not familiar with Quantico Tactical, but I do have a good idea how the business is run now that the president himself has stepped up to the plate.

In business there will be troubles and quibbles that come up. Your professional manner of handling the issue at hand is a testament to your commitment to your customers. While written policies and verbal statements may be misconstrued, knowing the company leadership is based on common sense and honesty is very assuring.

I would not hesitate to purchase from your company. Thank you for your time and your service.

Mr.Hensley,

Thank you for your time. You have done yourself and your organization a great service. I have a S&W M&P 40c LE I purchased from my local GS in August. I love the weapon (and, hehehe, so does my wife). I was considering a purchase of another one from you as my local GS is out of stock. I feel much more confident now of your organization.

Thank you again.

Marcus
Major, USAF, ret (1994)

Dear Maj. Hensley let me start out by saying I am not a HATER but I have see you once tell someone he did 'nt know what the BLANK he was talking about and walk a way. Many of my best friends are both serving and retired Marines from Grunts to LT COL's including my own late cousin. The behavior I saw that day, granted between both parties was no way for adults to act Especialy A MARINE OFFICER.A I have said it was no way for an Officer to conduct himself I didn't bash prices,say your firm was taking advantage of others or anything else.I just reported what I saw. TO YOU AND ALL MARINES THANK GOD FOR THE U.S.M.C.

My M&P was a brand new LE model I bought up by Andrews....They wouldn't let me field strip it when I paid, but they let me before I walked out on pickup. I can understand this policy before a card or stack of ones is pulled out, but when buying, it should be all or nothing. Sad the OP hasn't posted, QT, has he contacted you?

Major Hensley: I've not shopped in your store, but after seeing how you stepped up to the plate here I will not hesitate to buy from you. I had the privilidge of serving under officers like you as a corpsman in Nam. Semper Fi!

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

No offense, but without pics it appears to me to be a rant.

Although, I would never purchase a firearm from a place that didn't let me disassemble it (I would gladly pay in advance) or have a "return policy." I add the last one because I bought a 1006 from Cabelas and they wouldn't let me disassemble it, but they said they would take it back if it didn't work. Weird, but ok.

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NRA Certified Instructor

It's my personal preference to buy new guns, that being said I specifically ask if they have the gun I'm looking for in the safe in the back NIB. When they ask why I tell them flat out I am buying the gun as the new gun price and want a brand new gun, not one that has been handled and dry fired and had the action worked countless number of times. Even when they come out of the back with the new gun I insist on opening the box to inspect the piece as they should be doing anyway to verify the s/n when running the paperwork. This is particularly applied to revolvers with turn lines on the cylinder. If they won't do it or if they don't have a "new" gun in stock then I either don't buy or push for a better price. I have walked away from the buy over it already.

The number of mags does seem to be at the descrestion of S&W. I bought a 45c from an LE store in the spring and got two mags. Three months earlier I bought a 9c and got 3 mags. The price was good enough and I wanted the gun so the number of mags did not make a difference.
No comment on the used factor since there are no pictures.

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Ted
Les Baer , Wilson CQB

Major - I'm one of the guys who wrote to QT about this thread and am impressed you took the time to enter the fray - thanks for setting the record straight!

BTW, I stopped by the Woodbridge store again this weekend and picked up some more "stuff" since you were running a 15% off sale. I appreciate your service and thanks for giving back by supporting our troops and first responders.

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USAF Security Forces 1975-2003