Installed APEX Forward Set & Sear Kit

Biscut · #1 07-24-2013, 08:38 AM

Just installed the APEX Forward Set Sear and Trigger Kit yesterday. It had been over a year since M&P Armorer class so I have to admit this took me a while and some help from my friend who I took the class with.

We got it all in and adjusted pretty well. Took it to our basement range. Put 100 rounds through it and wow what I difference that trigger makes in accuracy. Just as advertised, close to 1911 feel, nice and light with not much travel at all.

I had about 7 fail to feed in 100 rounds. I still need to adjust the "candy cane" a bit. Looks like the travel isn't enough to reliably set the sear. Very close!!! A few minor adjustments and should be perfect.

Biscut · #2 07-24-2013, 08:39 AM

I should add....this is not in any way a SD or carry pistol. Setting it up for target/comp only.

Rastoff · #3 07-24-2013, 05:30 PM

I'm very curious about this install. What "adjustments" did you make before you fired it?

What is this "candy cane" you're talking about?

What isn't traveling far enough to set the sear?

7 failures to feed in just 100 rounds is abysmal. I installed this same kit in my M&P .45. I made no adjustments and have had no failures of any kind. I'm really curious to hear what you did.

Biscut · #4 07-25-2013, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rastoff

I'm very curious about this install. What "adjustments" did you make before you fired it?

What is this "candy cane" you're talking about?

What isn't traveling far enough to set the sear?

7 failures to feed in just 100 rounds is abysmal. I installed this same kit in my M&P .45. I made no adjustments and have had no failures of any kind. I'm really curious to hear what you did.

Video from APEX will answer your questions much better than me.

My take: mine is 2013 Pro series and it is different than the M&P's I took the armorer course on. As soon as I took the slide off I nituced chasis is dfferent.

"Candy cane" is the part off the trigger bar that allows the slide rides through and resets the sear. I just tweaked it (could see no daylight and now there is a hair of daylight). Shot 100 rounds and zero malfunctions.

I will fire a few hundred more rounds to make sure all is good and then take some emory paper to her smooth out any rough spots.

Excellent trigger for sure.

Sansho · #5 07-25-2013, 02:47 PM

After I installed the poly FSS kit, I had some failure to fire's. APEX had me adjust the trigger bar loop, which mentioned above, is shown in their aluminum trigger install video. 100% reliable in ~500 rounds since the adjustment.

SmurfHunter · #6 07-25-2013, 02:53 PM

Was looking to do this mod. Didnt think it needed any tuning.

Rastoff · #7 07-25-2013, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biscut

Video from APEX will answer your questions much better than me.

The FSS installation video from Apex doesn't include any adjustments. At least not the one I saw. The video Sansho posted is for the AEK trigger and I had not seen that before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biscut

"Candy cane" is the part off the trigger bar that allows the slide rides through and resets the sear.

This sentence makes almost no sense. After watching the video Sansho posted I think I understand what you're saying. For the benefit of others who may be reading this, I'll try to explain what I think is going on.

First of all, this adjustment has nothing to do with the slide. The adjustment is to the trigger bar loop. Here's a picture of the trigger bar:

The red arrow is pointing to the trigger bar loop. It's this loop that rides under the sear. As the trigger bar moves back, the loop presses up on the sear. The sear pivots and releases the striker. Here's a vid on how the trigger works:
Smith & Wesson: How the M&P Trigger Works - YouTube

I think it's important to note that the Forward Set Sear kit from Apex shouldn't need any adjustment. It comes with a new trigger and sear. They are made to work together and shouldn't need adjustment. If you test it and it's not releasing the sear, then you might tweak the loop, but I'd sure test it before adjusting anything.

In the unlikely event you over bend or break the trigger bar loop, here's where you can get a replacement for about $13:
http://www.speedshooterspecialties.c...roducts_id=990

Biscut · #8 07-26-2013, 01:26 PM

Go to town buddy. I was merely explaining it as best I could. Made no sense yet you figured it out.....

Guess that's why I said the video is much better at explaining than I!

AwfAxis · #9 07-26-2013, 01:35 PM

About the "loop", I just did the install yesterday (see link below), and I had to increase the gap. Once assembled, the sear did not move enough to release the striker.

I opened the loop a little too much at first, and the trigger would not reset. Found the sweet spot, and now its perfect.

CORE 9L with new APEX Forward Set Trigger

Sansho · #10 07-26-2013, 01:56 PM

Quote:

... I think it's important to note that the Forward Set Sear kit from Apex shouldn't need any adjustment. It comes with a new trigger and sear. They are made to work together and shouldn't need adjustment.

The kit tolerances may not be as tight as you might think. In an email from APEX to me regarding my failure to fires after installing the poly FSS kit, they said "... you most likely will need to adjust the trigger bar loop. The FSS kits require some modification to the trigger bar loop to achieve proper functionality."

Biscut · #11 07-26-2013, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwfAxis

About the "loop", I just did the install yesterday (see link below), and I had to increase the gap. Once assembled, the sear did not move enough to release the striker.

I opened the loop a little too much at first, and the trigger would not reset. Found the sweet spot, and now its perfect.

CORE 9L with new APEX Forward Set Trigger

Mine was opposite...too tight. Minor tweak to daylight and so far my sear sets reliably. BUT that was also only 50 rounds to test it out. Another 100+ and I'm thinking I'm good to go. Using 147gr HP so recoil definitely bouncing the innards around.

Rastoff · #12 07-26-2013, 02:59 PM

OK, I stand corrected. I didn't need any adjustments to mine. Maybe I was just lucky.

This is one area I'd like to see Apex improve. My kit came with no instructions. The video is great, but I'd much rather have some written instructions. I find them easier to refer to as the installation progresses than a video.

Hmmm, maybe I'll write my own set of instructions with pictures. Do any of you think that would be helpful? Here's an example of what I've done in the past: Shotgunworld.com ? View topic - Cynergy- Complete Receiver Tear Down w/Pics

Bkreutz · #13 07-26-2013, 03:10 PM

I didn't have to make any adjustments to mine either. I've probably got 3500 rounds through it since the APEX kit. I think instructions with pictures would be very helpful. The video left out some steps (like keeping track of the takedown lever spring), and assumed a couple of other things. I thought it was kind of "herky jerky" in it's presentation.

Biscut · #14 07-26-2013, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rastoff

OK, I stand corrected. I didn't need any adjustments to mine. Maybe I was just lucky.

This is one area I'd like to see Apex improve. My kit came with no instructions. The video is great, but I'd much rather have some written instructions. I find them easier to refer to as the installation progresses than a video.

Hmmm, maybe I'll write my own set of instructions with pictures. Do any of you think that would be helpful? Here's an example of what I've done in the past: Shotgunworld.com ? View topic - Cynergy- Complete Receiver Tear Down w/Pics

Hell yes! I'm no expert but I have a decent amount of experience and running on the video alone caused me some???????????????????????????????????? I also prefer written, by the numbers explanations as opposed to video(s).

Rgoodwin · #15 07-26-2013, 04:23 PM

Rastoff/ Everything I've seen you do has been spot on! It would be very helpful to lots of folks.

Sansho · #16 07-26-2013, 06:49 PM

The frustration I have with the APEX video's is that they aren't consistent to the application. This thread is a great example .... to know to tweak the trigger bar, you have to watch the aluminum trigger video, which if you are installing the poly FSS kit may not be a logical connection.

obiwankabaldi · #17 07-26-2013, 07:06 PM

I just finished the install today. Had to adjust the loop and it was a piece of cake. Range on Monday will verify but it seem to be working great now. The trigger is really sweet and the reset is very short. Love it.

Biscut · #18 07-26-2013, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obiwankabaldi

I just finished the install today. Had to adjust the loop and it was a piece of cake. Range on Monday will verify but it seem to be working great now. The trigger is really sweet and the reset is very short. Love it.

Good luck bro. Mine was a-ok with manual firing but 147gr shooting 100 rounds revealed I needed to tweak a little more. My install was a little frustrating. Even my friend (much more advanced than me had a few $*&@$&+(@&$ moments).

If you need to adjust after shooting go SHORT tweaks and I do agree it's a damn good trigger once you get it where you want it.

I usually take a glued up emery to a tonsil stick on the innards to smooth it out but I wan't to get a few hundred rounds down her first to make sure I'm all good with the trigger.

THis is the most excitement I've had for a pistol in over a decade...and it's a 9!! Go figure!!! Ha!

Rastoff · #19 07-26-2013, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biscut

Hell yes! I'm no expert but I have a decent amount of experience and running on the video alone caused me some???????????????????????????????????? I also prefer written, by the numbers explanations as opposed to video(s).

OK. I have a broken femur that needs another surgery. Because of this I'm stuck at home mostly sitting on my ***. Today I bought a new flash and I have to practice with it, right?

Maybe I'll take my .45 apart and do the install again while taking pictures. If I get it done I'll let y'all know.

Sometimes I'm lazy. I just needed a little motivation.

robkarrob · #20 07-28-2013, 02:02 PM

The reason for adjustments to the loop is the FSS kit limits the trigger travel, with minimal take-up/free-play. Some may have an issue with either the sear not releasing the striker, or not getting a trigger reset. The adjustment to the loop, corrects this issue. Their other trigger kits, don't remove the pre-travel, and don't usually have the issue with having to make adjustments to the loop. With some guns, the FSS is a parts swap only, with no adjustments needed.

"Candy cane" is not the correct terminology. It is called the following: sear engagement loop, shepherds loop, sear cam loop or lobe, trigger bar loop. Many different names for the same thing. The candy cane reference is because the shape looks like the top end of a candy cane.

Bob

M&P Freak · #21 07-28-2013, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rastoff

OK. I have a broken femur that needs another surgery. Because of this I'm stuck at home mostly sitting on my ***. Today I bought a new flash and I have to practice with it, right?

Maybe I'll take my .45 apart and do the install again while taking pictures. If I get it done I'll let y'all know.

Sometimes I'm lazy. I just needed a little motivation.

Ouch! Sorry to hear that and I hope you feel better soon.

AwfAxis · #22 07-29-2013, 12:32 AM

Now that I've had a trip to the range with my CORE and FSS kit and re-adjusted "trigger bar loop", this thing shoots great.

Caught me off guard a couple of times, but my previous "left and low" groups are dead on. Don't have time to flinch I guess.

Biscut · #23 07-31-2013, 07:03 PM

I have 150 rounds through it now with no malfunctions. Seems it's happy with 147gr HP so far as well. Getting 3-4" offhand groups of 50 at 12 yards.

I want to get 800 or so through it then back it off to 20-25yards and vice it to see what I get for accuracy. I read a lot of lackluster accuracy complaints about the M&P 9 barrels. I'm hopeful mine is a goody. Maybe Smith addressed it in later production runs. I believe mine was run in March or April 2013.

obiwankabaldi · #24 08-01-2013, 07:33 PM

Well got to the range today. The FSS trigger kit and RAM are perfect. Adjusted the loop and tested at home. Today live fire. About 150 rounds and not one hiccup. Damn, now I want to upgrade my other M&P's.

Biscut · #25 08-01-2013, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obiwankabaldi

Well got to the range today. The FSS trigger kit and RAM are perfect. Adjusted the loop and tested at home. Today live fire. About 150 rounds and not one hiccup. Damn, now I want to upgrade my other M&P's.

Once I got mine where I wanted it I was in dream land!!!!! If they could make the same trigger work for a GLock I'm sure they would be rolling in millions of triggers sold....

I'm guessing you did the lower spring weight like I did....someday I'll try the 5lb spring but right now I'm in heaven with mine.

I'm off tomorrow so in between some clays with shotgun I'm going to shoot 100 rounds of Wolf rapid fire and slow fire. It's dirty right now so this should be a good test of the trigger. The Wolf I have is from 2001, is light loads, and fires filthy!