Hot on the heels of Ruger’s announcement that it will allow all of its pistols to fall off the California Department Of Justice approved list, ending Ruger’s pistol sales in the Golden State, Smith & Wesson’s taking their M&P pistols off the menu.

BREAKING: Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols to Fall Off CA DOJ Approved List | The Truth About Guns

Hopefully once the guns and ammo are gone we'll see a significant drop in their crime rate.


.............or not!

They need to drop sales to LE agencies there as well. If the firearms industry as a whole could do that, then maybe they would listen. CA is such a disease in this country.

It's getting so bad here... we need support in pushing back... yet again. There is legal action, the second amendment foundation is here and Calguns are always pushing back.

This is the kind of **** we are dealing with:

CA Sen. Kevin DeLeon on Those Spooky 'Ghost Guns' | The Truth About Guns

I watched the entire 20 minute press conference earlier today, and it gets even better, he shows an automatic sniper weapon and claims that the lower receiver is the engine to the AR-15. This guy is so ignorant, and uneducated in firearms, and these are the types of individuals that are passing legislation in states like CA, and are pushing federal legislation. This guy knows nothing about the AR-15. A side note, in the full video, he pulls up the "automatic sniper weapon" and the bipod is mounted backwards. It's funny to see the LE officers behind him roll their eyes as he speaks his nonsense.

Hmmm, denying gun ownership to those who should have them....where have we heard that before?

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Back to back World War Champs.

So when will someone get the guts to put these guys in their place? Could it be the LE officers are Sheeple as well?????

Urban Dictionary: sheeple

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying LE should still be able to purchase whatever they want in CA while citizens continue to be disarmed?

This is all due to Kalifornia's ridiculous firing pin imprint law. ALL of the gun manufacturer's are refusing to put these special firing pins in new pistols, and instead are just selling to the rest of the free (and semi-free) states. The window for purchasing handguns in this Kommunist state is slowly closing.

It is sad. Believe me, the politicians could care less about the crime rate.

If I was younger, I would leave this state. I hope to someday when I retire.

I was going to buy a MP 9C after tax returns get done, guess not! Happy I have my MP 45 and MP 9 though.

Best

Bob

MILLER: Smith & Wesson to stop selling guns in California due to microstamping law - Washington Times

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Randy

From the article: So they're going to micro stamp those guns for CA, but not the other M&Ps? I'm not understanding the point then....

Micro stamping only apply to semi autos, not revolvers or long guns.

The Shield and SDVE guns were probably Listed recently enough that they are allowed for a while without the hypothetical microstamping requirement of newly listed or relisted guns.

Why don't the cops need microstamping?

Law enforcement is not bound by same rule us civilians are. They are allowed to buy handguns not approved for sale to the rest of the population for duty or personnel use. I guess in the eyes of the legislators there special!

The sad thing about the micro stamping requirement or any other such ridiculousness is the ultimate goal of the law.

The ultimate goal isn't to make it easier to track gun usage in a crime, but rather to make it overly complicated or expensive to manufacture and sell a firearm. This will cause manufacturers to give up and now you have the desired effect of the gun banners... A gun ban.

Trigger pull weight, magazine limitations, magazine safeties, guns not on the approved list, etc, etc... These are all attempts to make it harder for the law abiding to purchase and own a gun.

It is time to vote these people out of office and take back your rights. Unfortunately, I think it is too late for some locals.

Edmo

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TRUTH: Don't delete my posts!

Yea, but the Shield and SDVE is still going to be sold there. Does that mean they're going to micro stamp those and not the other M&Ps?

Problem is LEOs are citizens as well. They're not special and most I've seen at the range look like amateurs considering their groups when they reel the targets back in.

I'm glad they are taking this stand on the micro stamping, but I think the actual effect of their action to let their pistols expire is not going to be a significant impact to the non-LEO gun buyers. If you look at the current roster, you'll see something on the order of about 300 models listed, which sounds good. However most of those are revolvers. Of the semiautos, the largest group look like 22's. Of the non 22's, it looks like the next largest percentages are 3rd gen and SW99 models. I don't believe any of the E Series 1911 were ever certified in CA, so most of the SW1911s on the list also aren't catalogued or readily available any more. By the time you take away all the models that are essentially not available any more as new stock and aren't the couple of Shield models made for CA, there are about 8 M&P models that are on the list that will not be renewed. The roster has already been effectively a ban that has built up over time and its limit to accessing S&Ws happened a long time ago.

Sigh, read about New Jersey smart gun law. . .
Smart gun technology could trigger New Jersey law - CNN.com

This came up a few years ago. Several LEO tested this in which the officer had to have a ring/wristband of some sort to have the gun fire properly. Never really heard much about it after that.

The gun manufacturers need to stop selling to LEO Agencies as well. Don't just hurt the civilians out there! If all the manufacturers refused to sell to agencies in these states then it would stop these idiotic laws in their tracks!

I concur. If the LE community is affected maybe they'll voice their concerns to the legislature.

If I had to guess, I'd suspect it's because the Shield and SDVE lines have already been certified and approved to be on the state roster in their current form. If so, they won't be considered "new" models when their certifications expire, and could then be renewed (before expiration) without having to incorporate microstamping technology.

In other words, they won't be needing/receiving the further "performance enhancements" slated for the older M&P models as they reach their expiration dates on the current roster.

If the safety testing rules mean that adding such performance enhancements to the rest of the M&P line makes them "new models", then it wouldn't be surprising that they're going to end up falling under the microstamping requirement for new pistols.

For those of you who weren't keeping up with this law that's been on the books for a few years, here's some info from last year. This is a link to the documents contained in the state DOJ Certification of Microstamping Technology Notice from May last year.
http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/ag...013-BOF-03.pdf

Note the language ... "Semiautomatic pistols already listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale in California will remain on the roster and need not incorporate the microstamping technology ..." and "... a semiautomatic pistol not already listed ..."

Even some news articles I've browsed to recheck include blurbs (toward the end) that this new law won't affect existing pistols on the state roster.

This all may still change as recent legal challenges work their way through the courts (being supported by S&W, among others, it seems), but it still looks like it affects new model pistols being added to the roster, and, it seems, existing models that may have received modifications making them different from when they originally received their certification to be accepted on the list ... and which are going to have their existing certifications expire in the near future (from the end of this month to Aug, if I recall the roster dates last time I looked at them).

Not much choice but to wait and see what happens with the legal challenges.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

I was thinking the same thing. Didn't really want a 40c just yet but I had to pull the trigger early cause after next week I won't be able to get it.... I guess I can still do the 9c conversion..


Regards,

Kenny

I'm just really glad I've picked up 3 new hand guns in the last 3 months!

Just want to say that although this is only happening now in California. The rest of the nation is watching and see how this develops. We could be in some serious legal fights if more states try to adopt these laws. I can see New York and Massachusetts trying to pass these laws next. Then who knows? Don't let your guard down, keep aware and informed if one of your local politicians tries introduce this law in your state.

I'm still trying to understand how this state thinks guns are bad for society yet allows the Kardashians residency.

ARNOLD BABY should have had his firing pin microstamped, so all his illegitimate kids could be identified.
The Hollyweird anti-gun people make me sick, they make their whole career off of killing and special effects because none of them can really act and then they come out all peace love dove ...
Imagine someone commits a shooting with a revolver say .45 acp, then before leaving the scene they throw down about 20-30 .45 casings picked up at the local gun range, microstamped.
There is no way in CA, a jury of 12 would ever agree that none of the 20-30 microstamped gun owners had anything to do with the crime and someone who had nothing to do with the casings found at the scene, actually committed the crime, WHAT A MESS....11 months and counting, TEXAS please!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not so. High crime increases the politicians power and control. Never let a crisis go to waste. Cynical? You bet. A natural byproduct of old age.

I have no problem with a special firing pin. I'm a law abiding citizen. If I ever need to use my gun it will be for self defense.the facts are that while this law wouldn't reduce crime that is true. It would help put more people behind Bars because it would be much easier to identify a weapon that was used In a crime. Now I'm not saying S&W has to fall in line. If they don't want to do it cool with me also. And I'm fine with them not being sold in Cali. I live in FL.

Your really over thinking things. Most criminals aren't that smart. Most legal gun owners would have a solid alibi of some sorts of where they've been. A good lawyer would never allow someone to be found guilty over a couple of shells at the scene. While what your stating isn't impossible I don't think any lawyer worth his weight or an average jury would find someone guilty who has a squeaky clean history suddenly committing crimes.

glad i got mine. these gun laws & micro stamping are ridiculous. they will do nothing to prevent crime.

We voice our concerns to the legislature all the time. They listen to us as much as they do anyone else with whom they don't agree. Problem is, we are vastly outnumbered by the liberals in the metropolitan areas. Our voice means nothing. Believe me, we're (LEOs) in the same boat as the rest, and have the same concerns.

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Dave Frost

It's not that the firing pin is a big deal, other than the technology involved is faulty and easily defeated. This is just another attempt to limit gun rights. As a cop for 37 years, I'll guarantee you this will do little to increase arrests or convictions.

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Dave Frost

hmmm. You know what I thought when I first read about micro-stamping with no bad intent what-so-ever? A criminal could go to a range, collect some used brass and fling it over a crime scene as they fled which would now have an innocent person getting a visit from the law. A person was shot and your micro stamped brass was all over the crime scene....yea, that helps solve a crime.

Not mocking you, but I know some people that don't have a problem with the government monitoring them in every way possible because they're law abiding citizens. I always tell them that's not the point, but they just don't get it.

The problem is that too many people do not vote and those that do vote get their information from a biased news media. Unless the people wise up many other freedoms will be lost also.

No. Both of those guns were tested and added to the roster well over a year ago. We have yet to see the CA version here. These two guns must be coming to CA exactly as they were tested or they would have been dropped as well.
From what I understand, S&W and Ruger (and probably all gun manufactures) were told that if there were any changes (we call them improvements) to any semi auto handguns no matter how small or insignificant, those guns would have to be resubmitted for testing and would need to include micro stamping. This also includes cosmetic changes.
It won't be long before the Shield and SDVE drop of the roster, if we ever see them at all.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore...icroSFinal.pdf

I'm not convinced LE officers should have firearms if the general public is not allowed to have them. The Second Amendment is not about the right to protect ourselves from criminals. That was a given in the 18th century. The Second Amendment exists primarily to safeguard the First Amendment. In other words, the framers gave us the right to keep and bear arms so that we would have the ability to defend ourselves against enemies both foreign and domestic. If our own government turns tyrannical it may become necessary for us to defend ourselves against the police.

If liberals really think the country will be safer without guns then they should disarm the citizens and the police. If criminals didn't have guns the police could enforce the law like the Bobbies used to do in merry old England. With sticks.

Meaning no disrespect but, most of the LE "sheeple" you refer to are the big wigs in the various departments of "city PDs" not usually Sheriffs and definitely not most road cops. At least, not in my experience. Just about every deputy I worked with as a LEO was pro 2nd Amendment. It was the city police chiefs, who fear mayoral or city manager retribution, that are against the public possessing firearms. It's eventually going to be an "all hands on deck" kind of fight in this country I'm afraid in order to protect our Constitution. I'm glad I live in a state that has, so far, resisted this seemingly inevitable tilt to the left and all our sheriffs are on record as being pro 2nd Amendment no ifs, ands, or buts without Kalifornicating everything!

Edmo- Absolutely right about "the ultimate goal of the law" The Brady Bunch (Sarah and her henchmen) stated years ago that her ultimate goal was to make things so hard for the manufacturers that they would not make firearms anymore, period! Rifles, shotguns. whatever. She is an absolutely whacked out ultra leftist who believes that big government has ALL the answers to ALL the problems. Just listen to her interviews with people like Morgan or Maddow.

At this point, if you are a gun, it's embarrassing to find yourself on the "approved list" for CA.

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686/M&P9 Pro/M&P15X/M&P15-22