While out at the range Saturday, I was using some 9mm factory reloads that came from Washougal River Cartridge Company and came across a cartridge that just didn't look right. I couldnt quite place it at first glance but then I realized that it was a .380 casing with the bullet barely seated. This was my first outing with my new Shield 9mm.

What would have happened if I hadn't noticed it?

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The gun would have fired and you wouldn't have noticed anything. As long as the overall length is the same as the other rounds, it would have been fine.

The .380 is basically a 9mm short. They are intended for smaller guns and have less recoil because of a lighter charge. The bullet is still the same diameter (.357"). So, a 9mm will fit in the case, just not as deep as the .380 would have been seated.

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Freedom isn't free.

It is about a mm or two shorter than the other 9mm but I don't think its much shorter if at all than my carry rounds.

the cartridge would be held against the breach face by the extractor and most likely would have fired, but this is not a good thing to be doing knowingly. but I have loaded some 115 9mm bullets into 380 cases when I still had a 380 just lighten the load.

Good eye! If I am using any commercial range ammunition, be it remanufactured or first run, I alway examine it closely. There are far too many pictures of wonky Winchester White Box ammo floating around the Net not to.

It's a slippery slope here. If it's shorter than the other rounds from the same box, don't use it. You cannot compare it to rounds from other boxes.

Take the same amount of powder, cram it into a smaller space and you get more pressure. That pressure increases at an exponential rate. In a situation like you have, set back becomes critical. You can't compare it to other rounds because they have different load recipes.

What happened is a .380 case somehow got in the 9mm production line. Because all the dimensions are the same, except case length, it went through without anyone noticing. Because it's shorter, I'll bet the crimp isn't that great. A not as tight crimp would reduce the amount of pressure built, but there's no way to know how much.

Would the round you have been too much pressure in your gun? I have no idea. The only way to tell is to fire it. It probably would have been OK. Since you caught it, why take chances?

I had a similar thing happen to me. I found a .45GAP in a group of .45ACP rounds. It fired fine, but felt a little stronger. I probably should have just disassembled it, but I didn't and nothing happened.

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Freedom isn't free.

If their quality control isn't catching the wrong case I'd be worried about what else they might miss.

An M&P 9MM will chamber and fire a .380.
If I am correct, they are both the same diameter.
You may notice less recoil, and the action won't cycle, but the gun will fire it.

A while back a forum member posted that he had inadvertently fired a bunch of .380's out of his M&P9. It didn't hurt anything but his pride (but not so much that he wouldn't admit his mistake here).

The 380 case is also slightly smaller in the head area. If I miss a 380 case when I'm handloading on my 650 the 380 case will pop out of the shell holder at the priming station. The 9mm case is the same diameter at the case mouth but tapers out toward the head. I remember reading (on this forum) about someone who had loaded a mag with 380's and shot the whole mag through his M&P but I'm a bit dubious. If the round wasn't held in place by the extractor, then it would have gone an extra mm into the chamber and would have a good chance of not firing, and if it did fire, there would be a good chance of not extracting. I had a strange event last week, I was loading a mag during one of my practice sessions and something didn't feel right, I unloaded the mag and found a 38 super comp round (9x23). I figure someone was trying to be nice at my last match last Tuesday night, found it lying on the floor, figured it was one of mine from a "unload and show clear, and dropped it into my ammo bucket. Wouldn't have been a problem since a 4mm longer case would not have allowed the slide into battery but it was long enough to drag on the mag. (initially I thought I had some grit in the mag).

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Minimize the variables

I also remember that thread - that was the one I was referencing in my post above.
If you remember, in the post he said that the action didn't cycle. He had to manually rack the slide each time.


EDIT - Here is the thread in question:
I fired an entire magazine of .380's through my M&P 9c

See I'd be willing to bet it's not a 380 charge but a full 9mm charge in a smaller case. I definitely won't fire it but between that and the first box of ammo I had from them experiencing nearly a 50% failure to fire rate I doubt I'll ever use their ammo again.

I don't blame you. Call the company and ask for a refund. If nothing else it may help them fix their QC issues.

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Freedom isn't free.

I'm glad the OP caught the different round before firing it. I am not certain I would have and this is why I don't shoot reloads.

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Greg

I buy a lot reloads. Guess I better take a closer look when I load them!

Thanks for the lesson.

I am pretty sure it would have went off, after that, best case you wouldn't have know, worste case the head could have ruptured and you might have ended up with some damage.

Several years ago I took a freind shooting. I made the mistake of bringing a 9mm and .40S&W to the range. He was loading magazines and put a 9mm cartridge in the .40 S&W magazine. I was the "lucky" one who ended up firing it in my Glock 23, it went off, cycled the slide and loaded another round. It felt different and sounded funny so I stopped shooting and made safe the pistol until I figured it out. It didn't take long to find the de-formed 9mm shell. There was no damage to anything so I seperated the ammo and we kept shooting. To this day, I never bring 9mm's and 40's to the range on the same day.

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This is what would scare me. Someone else noticed this possibility, too. It is far more likely that the .380 case went through the 9mm line and got loaded with what is probably way too much powder for the shorter case. The results might have been a lot more exciting than you want to know. I think you made the right choice here, and it is a good thing that you were paying attention.

Going cheap on ammo is a losing proposition. Saving a few bucks, then blowing up a gun and maybe being hurt, is not a place to which you want to travel. At best, the ammo won't work as well, giving you a skewed and negative impression of the gun for no good reason.

For the last 10-15 years, I have been saving up to buy ammo, then buying a lot at a time so that I save money by getting volume discounts. Getting good ammo that way is workable, and beats the heck out of a bad experience.

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NHI, 10-8.

I agree that it was probably a .380 case that got in with the 9mm process. Therefore, it was probably a 9mm amount of powder that got in there too. However, Because the case is the same diameter and the bullet was only seated to the same depth it would have been in the 9mm case, the actual volume under the bullet would have been the same. So, I don't think it would have been an over pressure situation.

Still, it's wise to play it safe when it comes to ammo.

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Freedom isn't free.

An indoor range I go to has had nothing but problems with this brand. Low quality ammo that they sell for new prices.

No thanks.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

I emailed them when I originally had the FTF issues but they never replied to me. The last time I checked their site there was no phone number listed. Like I said, I'll not be using their ammo again.

I have never had a problem with their ammo. It's one of the few reloaded ammo I would use, other than ones I had reloaded. It's made somewhere near me in the state. usually pretty good stuff...

**Contacted Brad to help you..he is my local dealer**

Hey guys I was told about this thread by another member. I'm one of Washougal River's largest dealers. I'm sorry to hear that you had problems with the ammo. I can help you with any warranty issues you might have with Washougal ammo. If you ever have any problems, FTF's ect. please send me an email at [email protected] or give me a call 253-350-2944. I can assure you the owner at WRCC does not take QC issues lightly and always wants happy customers. Khurrle, I'll send you a PM with my info. Thanks.

If the OAL was close enough to a 9mm length, it would probably feed into the chamber.

The 380 case is shorter than a 9mm case, and is not tapered like a 9mm. The face of the round is smaller.

If the extractor did not hold it, it would simply headspace off the rim, and the face of the round would be too far from the breech face for the firing pin to make contact with it, and nothing would have happened. It would click. You would eject it, and discover the problem.

However,

If the extractor caught and held it tight enough against the breech face, it probably would fire.

That round likely had the full powder charge crammed into that tiny 380 case. And that 380 case would not be supported adequately inside that 9mm chamber. And it would rupture. It would kaboom. And you would tear your hair and gnash your teeth.

Glad you caught it before this happened.

Out of curiosity I gently pushed from side to side on the bullet and it came right out of the case... Can anyone tell me if this looks like a 9mm or .380 amount of powder?

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KHURRLE did you contact them per their request in Post Number 21?

That doesn't look like much powder, but not knowing what kind of powder it is, that doesn't mean much. If you still have some of that ammo, you might pull another bullet and compare.

Handgunner, I worry about the quality of ALL the manufacturers these days. They're pumping it out as fast as they can in order to meet demand. New employees, faster run times, longer shifts, etc. make it imperative that we examine ALL of our ammunition closely.




And yet another reason I roll my own...

That picture right there could explain a kaboom or two here.

blujax01, I am currently discussing with him...

Thanks

Yup, that was me....

They will feed fine, but not have enough recoil to operate the slide.
If you had a full 9mm charge of powder it would probably be just fine and run just fine. The .380 case is 9mmx17mm and 9mm is 9mmx19mm so yes the extractor holds the shell in place and the .380 case will not bottom out in the chamber.

I don't recommend it, but in reality I can't come up with a scary scenario of exploding barrels or anything....

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Kirk / Spock 2020

Well, if they have a manufacturers license they have the insurance to cover such things. I've receive visibly defective ammo from CCI.

Being a brass scrounger, I've found badly bulged and ruptured 380 cases that were obviously fired from a 9mm chamber. From the looks of these cases, you'd think that the shooter had to notice that something wasn't right.

Is the chamber diameter different for .380 and 9mm?

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Kirk / Spock 2020

Not really. The .380 chamber is 2mm shorter, but the diameter is the same.

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Freedom isn't free.

So badly bulged and ruptured .380 cases would come from firing them in a .40 or a defective gun....

My .380 rounds fit great in a 9mm barrel.

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Kirk / Spock 2020

That is not correct. The ATF does require ammo manufacturers to carry insurance.

Send it to Mythbusters. Those guys will shoot it.

The bullet diameter is the same between the 9mm and the 380, but the chamber diameter is quite different.
The 380 case is 2mm shorter, and the 9mm case is tapered, where the 380 is not. The diameter at the rear of the 9mm round is .394 inch. The diameter at the rear of the 380 round is .374 inch.

Thanks feelinlucky!!!

That's good information to know!!!

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Kirk / Spock 2020

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I dunno either way about that, but I can assure you that no one with a brain would do commercial activity of that sort without appropriate insurance.

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NHI, 10-8.

There are many licensed garage reloaders who go without insurance.

There are also many insured commercial reloaders who turn out a product superior to WWB etc...

What's a "licensed garage reloader"?

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Freedom isn't free.

A guy with a type 6 FFL(they are not hard to get) who has a Dillon in his garage and sells ammo at gun shows, to his buddies, etc. They are quite common.