So today I pick up a pro 5 inch that I got from Armslist (local guy), when I meet him I did took the slide of and like he mementioned in is ad it looked almost new. I too it home and started to detail strip when I notice something strange on the edge of the frame where the trigger safety makes contact with the frame (looks like it's been file down), so I tested the trigger safety by pulling the upper part of the trigger rearward and there is not enough material on the frame to fully stopped the trigger tab and stop it from going all the way back . The gun looks new and don't know what could happen to cause this so I called S&W and they are sending me a shipping label, I'm afraid that they will say that the frame was modified (witch I did not) and the frame will have to be replace and will charge me for a replacement. What would be the best to do in this case?

Post pictures. Pictures are always good. Pictures are better than describing the issue.Pictures speak a thousand words.

Regardless of what is wrong, S&W has no obligation to repair it for free. You are not the original owner.

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Freedom isn't free.

Venenoindy:

If material has been removed from the trigger, it's a pretty trivial fix - just replace the trigger. Material removed from the frame, OTOH, and you've got a problem.

If you've figured out how the trigger safety works, the whole thing is pretty much nonsense - if a cover garment, for example, is caught in the trigger guard while holstering, likely the safety wouldn't help anyway - so you could just ignore it. (You should never remove a manufacturer-supplied safety device, IMHO. But in this case, "That's what I got when I bought it." ought to cover you.)

Regards,

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Stu.

This may not be a tough fix. If material was removed from the frame, a few minutes with some tape and some epoxy and anything removed can be replaced.

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Freedom isn't free.

How about installing an apex trigger, for $40 it's probably cheaper than mailing it back to s&w.

That's interesting. I thought the lifetime warranty was transferred from owner to owner. I've never had to produce POP for anything I've returned to them for repair.

I have come across several post about S&W repairing firearms issues even though the person was not the original owner, that is the reason I called and I was up front with them about been used and the person I talked to did not say anything about not honoring the warranty.

I checked into replacing the trigger but the problem is the frame.

I have had polymer frame handguns for many years and don't remember an instance were the trigger safety did it's job, I'm really considering not sending it but at the same time I kind of want to have it looked over for other possible issues. The other thing to consider is if I decide to sell it would not be the right if I sell it without disclosing the issues.

You're absolutely right, send it in to have it checked out.

P.S.
Be aware that if the frame (or anything else) has been modified, and deemed unsafe, you may have a problem getting it back from S&W.

The "trigger safety" won't keep you from accidently or negligently pulling the trigger. It is part of the "drop safety" system to ensure that the only way to fire the gun is to pull the trigger.

I'm very concerned about what S&W will say and also possible cost.

Not to continue repeating a very worn out post. Could you post a pic to help us understand your concern?

I would be forcing a return on the seller.

This is the one with the damage.


20140228_101126.jpg Photo by venenoindy | Photobucket

This is my other M&P (without issues) just to compare.

20140228_101210.jpg Photo by venenoindy | Photobucket

Now I see what you're talking about. The little peg on the back of the trigger that keeps the trigger from going in too far is broken off. I can't help but wonder of that was done on purpose by the first owner for some perverse reason.

S&W has been known to make warranty repairs without asking any questions as to prior ownership. It just needs a new trigger. If S&W doesn't give you satisfaction for a free repair try a local gunsmith. If there's no further damage it would just need a new trigger, a simple job. It can't cost very much (famous last words, lol).

EDIT:

If all else fails a drop of epoxy or JB Weld on the trigger might do the job. You just want to limit the trigger travel.

I just noticed your second pic & after comparing the first one to my own M&Ps I can't see any frame damage other than some scratching. It almost looks like someone really mashed the trigger with a possibly weak stop & broke it off marring the frame.

In any event good luck & keep us updated.

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Former USN, Retired US Army

I just came back from the range and function test it and did not experience and malfunctions after any kind, I only put 150 rds through but at least fires and cycles with no issues.

Here's a little picture help:


It definitely looks like someone filed the frame. The previous owner may have had some trouble getting his finger on the trigger properly. I have heard of that before.

If the trigger safety is not engaging, it could present a safety issue. If the gun is dropped, while loaded, on the back of the slide, it could fire. That is the purpose of the trigger safety. Only you can decide if you want to get this fixed.

You have three options:

1. Ignore it. This could be a safety issue. There are some competitions and schools that will not allow you to use this gun in this condition.
2. Send it in to S&W for repair. They may fix it for free, but it's more likely that they'll want to charge you for a new frame.
3. Fix it yourself. This will require a little time and effort on your part, but it can be done.

As you've seen, it won't affect the way the gun fires. It's just a safety thing in case it's dropped. This is a good reminder to us all to check all the functions of a gun when buying used.

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Freedom isn't free.

S&W's warranty only extends to the original owner of the firearm. They will offer to have it sent in and tested for any issues, but they have no obligation to fix it on their dime. They may have you pay for the diagnostics testing and any repair, or they may cover the repair. Chances are you'll be paying for things out of your pocket though.

That doesn't seem like it was too much filing, but I'm looking from my phone with a lot of glare currently. A little epoxy and a new trigger might be a quicker fix that could be just as effective.

I would not trust a piece of epoxy to fix this, as it could work for awhile and then break off. Unfortunately, I think you need a new frame.

While S&W may extend the warranty to another owner it is a bit much to expect them to replace a frame, that originally was ok, but hacked on by an owner.

I believe you should try and get your money back from the seller. He concealed a known safety defect.

Warranty or not, it looks like a new trigger is all that's needed. The safety on the trigger should hit the frame like it's should. If it doesn't, like already mentioned a drop of epoxy will fix the frame so it will.

This is exactly the reason I don't like to buy used guns. I know lots of people do, but my preference is to buy new...for warranty, and to make sure I'm not the recipient of Bubba's gun smithing experiments. I have bought used guns on occasion (if you want a model that's no longer in production...like a Model 19 or 3913...then that's the only option) but I've always bought them from a gun shop that I trust.

Anyway, I agree with davemercer's comment: ask the seller to refund your money; this gun has been altered or damaged, and it wasn't disclosed. Now, whether he will agree is a different matter. If he refuses, pursuing legal a legal remedy may be more time and trouble than it's worth.

In the future, if you are going to buy a used gun from a local, private party, take it to a gun smith you trust and ask to have it checked out. If the seller won't agree to that, I wouldn't buy it.

I'm pretty new to handguns, but I to, am partial to NIB warrantied, I'm the 1st owner kind of attitude.

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Criminals don't register guns.

Here's a picture of mine (un-modified):



The gap between the back of the trigger and the frame is less than 1mm. The edge on your frame has definitely been rounded off.

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Randy

randyr5:

Just IMHO, but the trigger safety under discussion is of little value in a "dropped gun" situation. The drop safety plunger is going to do all the work.

I suppose one could say that the extra help from the trigger block might prevent a problem, but all it does is keep the trigger from moving the trigger bar, which, in turn, moves the drop safety plunger out of the way, and releases the sear. That generally happens only when you intentionally (or accidentally) depress the trigger, or something gets caught in there during holstering.

It does look like somebody took a file to it, though, but it'd make more sense to modify the trigger (easily replaceable) by filing the little lump off of it.

Guess the big question is whether or not the trigger safety works in the current condition? It's possible that the frame had a lump or some flash (from the molding process) on it, and this was a way of getting the trigger bar to do what it's supposed to do. If the trigger safety works, that's that.... Some finer grit on the frame, and it should buff out. If it doesn't work anymore, then you have to decide whether to leave it alone or get S&W involved.

Regards,

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Stu.

S&W won't replace the frame of a M&P -- the frame is the gun. They will, if the fault is theirs, offer you another gun; if the fault is yours, they might offer you another gun at wholesale. But if this is a case of the former owner deliberately modifying his frame, S&W is under no obligation to spend $400 to unmodify it. If you make a point that you didn't do this, the previous owner did, then you have told them that you are not covered by their warranty (S&W is pretty good about not asking if someone is the original owner). Bottom line: you have a gun that is fine for the range, but one that you don't really want to drop. You can send it to S&W, and see what they do -- they might be able to rebuild that area (they told me once in an email that they have the ability to fix broken and chipped plastic frames).

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S&W Rover

Looks to me like both the trigger and the frame have been altered. It's hard to tell from the angle of the photo, but it looks like the side of the trigger safety tab closest to the frame has been trimmed down (making the 'triangle' shorter), and the frame was relieved a bit too.

A new trigger MIGHT be enough of a fix on it's own; It would take some measurements to see if a new trigger would catch properly on the frame.

Can someone help me understand the issue here? I am lost. I can't see what has been modified nor do I understand how it's failing...

EDIT: Nevermind, after zooming on the images, I can see it...

As stated earlier, warranty is for original owner only. I found this to be true for both Smith and Kimber.

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Incoming fire has right of way

I recommend that people actually read the book that comes with their gun. I know there's a lot of legalistic warnings and notes, but there is good info in there. This includes the warranty which starts with this:

This is often overlooked because S&W usually just fixes the guns that come to them. However, they are not responsible for anything once the gun is transferred to another person.

This caveat is found on most gun warranties. The only company I know of that warranties the gun for life is Ed Brown.

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Freedom isn't free.

I have twice bought used S&W guns that turned out to be broken; both times I called and politely described the situation. Both times they handeled all shipping costs and repaired the guns for free. I think they're great that way. It's why I wouldn't hesitate to buy a used S&W. From my experience, they always make it right.

Ill be a debbie downer here, but my worry is did the original owner know what they were doing and did this alteration with purpose or just guess? If its the latter, did he try other mods with the same shoddy workmanship? A once over by a gunsmith may be useful. I come from working on dirtbikes. i know theres no comparison, but finding one jerry rig tends to lead to others. Be careful and good luck.

New to the forum , But in my humbled opinion, If I were in your situation, I'd determine what else has been altered or changed. Then start by replacing the trigger. (not too expensive) and clean up the frame edge in question. I can't tell from photo if frame has been radically actually altered or if it is just slightly filed (rolled). Anyway, check function with new trigger in place. Then, if needed, modify or bend the trigger bar loop down to alter sear release to be later in trigger pull. Maybe replace the sear also.
I believe that returning it to SW would be far down my list.
get other opinions first from someone that knows the M&P. Preferably having the pistol in front of them. Not a photo.
If you don't have the confidence for parts change (no insult), I would send it to Apex. They have always done things right.
My .02