I was just looking at some of my older Pre-1970 handguns and how remarkably well they have held up over the years, when it occurred to me that my newer polymer framed S&W M&P's may not look as good in 40 years. About how long is the average life expectancy of a polymer frame? Will there come a time when they eventually become fragile or brittle and too dangerous to shoot? What effect does gun oil and cleaning solutions have on breaking down the polymer?

I dunno about M&Ps, but my 24 Y/O G19 still works as good as new.

There is at least one Glock 17 documented as having 1 million rounds through it and the frame is still fine.

My 21 yr old Glock Model 19 is holding up just fine as well. Has about 5,000 rounds thru it.

I suspect that in the absence of extreme conditions (melting hot, freezing cold plus trauma, extremely caustic chemicals, etc.) the polymer essentially has an infinite life. The metal parts absorb all the stress of firing.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Ive yet to see a plastic that doesn't degrade over a long period of time,especially if its exposed to uv and radiation.

That's what brought me to my initial question. I'm also somewhat concerned as to the effects of oil and cleaning solvents. I wouldn't be surprised if we find out in the future that the polymers aren't impervious to certain gun cleaning related chemicals and new products designed specifically for polymer are developed. I realize that polymer characteristics are different from typical plastic products, but I've also seen how quickly plastic can be degraded with certain chemicals and even limited uv exposure.

I kinda think the engineers had the same worries when they came up with those chunky designs :-D

...and metal rusts. Moral of the story? Any gun improperly treated or stored has a shortened lifespan.

Yet another, let's find a way to criticize and attack polymer guns thread.

How overdone, repetitive, boring, trite, uninspiring, bogus etc etc ad nauseam.

Seriously, this subject and anything near it should be grounds for flogging on here. There has to be at least two similar posts on here a week, just slightly different ways to get there in the different posts.

I don't know if this was the OP's intent, maybe not, but it's easy enough to predict where this thread is going unless some merciful Admin locks it.

Rant over, forgive me, I just get tired of the continual rehashing of the subjects of how bad polymer guns, much less Glocks are on here.

Well that's why I treat my S&W 1911 like a steel gun and my M&P like a polymer.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk

If you've ever had a metal framed handgun in you hand for an extended period of time in very cold weather, you'll love polymer.

Seriously, if you note, the wear parts of the M&P frame are not only metal, but they are replaceable metal parts that lock into a stainless chassis embedded in the polymer frame. This is entirely different from some other products that either have no metal parts or that cast the metal parts into the frame.

It's also different from the conventional/traditional metal frame, where if frame rails or the locking block breaks, you have to scrap the entire frame instead of just replacing the broken bit.

Current replacment cost for an M&P frame is about $200. There were some threads long ago showing what bored puppies can do to a polymer frame. Score one for metal frames.

The poly frame should outlive you unless you set fire to it or run over it with a tank or bulldozer!

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59,M&P9,40,40C,357,(2)45,G26

Remember, guns built 50 years ago were built out of the material they were because they had to. The materials today are so advanced, no one 50 years ago could even imagine them. Its popular to be nostalgic with the old guns with their fit and finish but the good old days are now and today's guns are held to a much higher standard. Its hard to find a genuine ****** gun now days yet only 30 years ago there were plenty to choose from and no one had a internet to broadcast it.

This is not your Grandfather's 'plastic'. I'm not saying that it's indestructable, but don't expect it to fall apart like the vinyl they used to put on car dashboards.

So far its been about 30 years. Time will tell. I doubt that the polymer used in the Glocks and M&Ps of today will degrade under environmental conditions the same way that "plastic" does. However, we only have about 3 decades of data so we'll see.

Wow. Sorry I asked. If you look at the number of posts I've put up, you can see I'm new to this forum and if asking the wrong question is all it takes to get flogged, maybe I came to the wrong place.

I've been buying and selling guns for over 30 years, but I just purchased and have been thoroughly enjoying my first few polymer S&W M&P firearms and didn't know what to expect. It was not an effort to create a controversy over polymer vs metal, but just an honest question looking for someone who might be able to shed some light on my concerns.

Thanks for your friendly welcome and help.

I said it may not have been your intention to start another one of the polymer bashing threads. Meaning, my comments were not specifically aimed at you. I'm sorry if you took it that way.

The flogging thing is obviously rhetoric....it's not like we actually get together in the same room.

Your post just hit on one of about three areas that are done to death subjects on here. Polymer vs Metal, Should I carry one in the Chamber and new S&W bashing, the latter of which the Mods ended.

Don't take it personally, you just stumbled unknowingly into a mine field.

Welcome to the Forum, all in all it's a pretty friendly place. My apologies if you personally felt attacked, it's the continual threads on the subject I was railing against, not you personally.

Have a good evening.

I think plastic, in general, takes a few billion years to biodegrade if buried in the ground. I think you're safe.

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RIP Shipmate

I second the quote.

I think that translates into one lifetime +.

I too have an 'old' heavily use Glock with no issues.

I also have a Wilson KZ45 of some age and use, that appears the same as when produced.

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Incoming fire has right of way

Consider this:

10 years ago I was involved with some expensive equipment that had a number of critical tolerance metal contact areas. The manufacturer, as part of scheduled maintenance, replaced a number of metal contact areas with a special polymer. Reason was that the non-metal surfaces had a longer lifespan under use.

Just saying...

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Incoming fire has right of way

This may be true, but how many of us leave their M&P exposed to constant sunlight? I mean, I guess if you left it out all the time, the polymer might become brittle. In the case of the M&P though, I don't really think this is a problem.

I don't see anyone in this thread "bashing" polymer guns. I simply see a discussion about the longevity of such.

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Freedom isn't free.

That was my whole point in getting out in front of it, saying let's not let this go down the road where these kind of threads seem to inevitably get to......bashing anything not made of 100% metal.

Yes, welcome aboard, and its a great question, we all get a little crotchety, but there are some truly awesome, patriotic heroes and good friends on this "forum", if you look at the upper left hand of the address bar it does say forum. It does not say "guided discussion", although I'm afraid some would much prefer that, thankfully we live in a "republic" and the first amendement is about freedom of speech and second amendment is about the right to keep and bear arms. For what its worth, I am concerned as well, and I have been very impressed with the M&Ps that I have shot, although I tend to favor the 3913 as a carry piece, and 1911s, Browning BPs, as my "cardboard killers". It is the United States of America, while they are working hard to take away our freedoms, here on the S&W forum, a man can still ask an honest question, and get an honest answer, so stick around, and you're bound to learn a lot, and meet some great friends. billymagg

Oh, and as some have expressed concerns about solvents/chemicals, I would suggest very hot soapy water for those deep cleans after several extended range sessions, followed up by a good warm hairdryer and light lube in all the appropriate places.

Thanks guys. Those are exactly the answers I was looking for. My fears of potentially premature deterioration appear to be mostly unfounded. I definitely enjoy the lighter weight of the polymer material for most purposes and will probably be long gone before any appreciable amount of structural integrity is compromised.

Your polymer gun will outlive your car, and probably you.


Some cheerful perspective there

We need to include caliber wars as well as how much gun and spare ammo one should always carry.

Wow, there are some cranky people on here today! I clicked on this subject because I was curious if any studies had been done on the plastic these guns are made out of. I was not expecting a hate thread. For those of you for whom this subject is a "hot button" , instead of reading the thread, just skip it. I am sure your blood pressure will thank you.

Wow, just a few billion years!!!! Maybe I should buy a spare frame.

Just trying to add a bit of humor to the thread.

I doubt that any owner of a polymer gun will out live it.

If you want to experiment with harsh treatment of the Nylon used in pistol frames without sacrificing your gun, use an old toothbrush. Most toothbrush handles are made of Nylon-6.

After months outdoors lying in the sun, the surface will show some effect, mostly from UV exposure. So will stainless steel, and carbon steel will rust severely if left out. Wood grips will be ruined.

So I clean all my guns after use and store them indoors.

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Science plus Art

It's really not hate. Thing is, if you spend much time on gun forums, you see there's a handful of topics that are just beaten bloody. Not so much here as some others, but it happens. Granted, there are new guys joining all the time, are looking for legit answers to their honest question. They've got no idea they're hitting a hot button. But after the 20th post of "Poly vs steel" or "My fill-in-the-blank is better than your M&P" tempers can get a little short.

If the Ghostbuster's proton packs had a 5000 year half life (you know, as long as you didn't cross the streams), seems like a plastic M&P aught to be good for a hundred or so years, no?

Seriously, older generation, much less stable plastics have been used on cars for decades and subjected to Uv, salt and every type weather known to man and in most cases, have survived. I believe my grandkids and likely my great-grandkids will be enjoying my poly guns.

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paws for friendship

In MY humble opinion, the life expectancy of my poly pistol should be about one light year give or take a few months. In any case, i suspect I will be dust before IT is.
This, after extensive scientific study and meetings at my local American Legion post.

Mark

So owning a polymer gun is the the key to eternal life????


Awesome!!!!

There is already a longevity precedence set by Remington with their "Nylon 66" .22 LR rifle made between 1959 - 1989.

The gun's receiver (with a sheet metal cover to make it look more conventional) and the stock was made of Zytel, which is what the M&P frames are made of.

You can still find those Nylon 66's and they stil look pretty darn good.

The Remington XP-100 bolt action pistol were also stocked in Zytel.

I'd say the M&P's are in pretty good company.

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

Tony, welcome to the forum!

Just be thankful you didn't ask if the .380 ACP is an effective caliber!

And this really is the friendliest and most knowledgeable forum around!

Mine is almost always hidden under a shirt, maybe I should rub some SPF .40 (get it) on it once in a while? That might be the new lube for polymer?
I think at my age the gun will out last me...........

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Criminals don't register guns.

Thanks Robert. I am about as diehard a S&W guy as there is and prefer my S&W's to most other firearms I have ever owned. I've resisted the polymer guns for as long as I could, but after firing one at my local range, I was instantly hooked and have bought several M&P's over just the past couple months. I really do enjoy this forum and it's diversified knowledge base was my main reason for joining. I am learning more every day and hope to be able to share some of my experiences with others as well. I totally understand the frustration of the long time members having to read the same questions over and over again. I've only been a member for a few weeks and I'm seeing the repetitive questions already. I just read the ones that interest me and skip the rest.

Anyway, thanks again for the welcome!

Welcome!
Got any other questions?

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Criminals don't register guns.

I'm sure I will, but I want to choose my questions carefully so I don't walk into another minefield!

We do offer the definitive "what should I not ask?" handbook for $7.95, available in the Forum lobby.

If you are concerned about gun cleaning products getting on your polymer, you could always switch to a non-hazardous, non-toxic, "green" gun cleaner/protectant

Sometimes a "minefield" includes only one or two mines.

Stick around, you'll like it here.

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Oh well, what the hell.

Is "FOREVER" too optimistic? It's not on a GLOCK and I suspect not on a S&W either! Steel frame 1911's are KNOWN for going over 100K rounds...but then so too are "plastic" framed Glocks. I suspect that barring some unexpected issue your M&P is good for 100K EASY.

Maybe not in California, but resins, polymers, etc, do "break down, and begin to chemically change, I'm rather certain that most of our concerns are unjustified when talking about our favorite polymer framed weapons, on the other hand one has only to look at newer vehicles, which incorporate large amounts of polymer/plastic material to see that it doesn't take "forever" to notice some deterioration, being around boats, sailplanes, corvettes, carbon fiber bicycles.

That's one of things you need to keep in mind on forums. There's always going to be someone who will rant about your inquire. Rather it's their "intent" or not, you're asked to explain yourself.

Welcome to the forum. Only explain yourself if someone misunderstands you, not if someone doesn't like what you've posted. They can skip it and go to another thread.

Sorry if what I said came off cranky, that wasn't my goal. In real life plastics have been used in guns for a much longer time than in Glocks. It really depends on what kind of plastic you are talking about. The M-16 had a 'plastic' stock and they date to the early 60's. Bakelite components from the 40s are in about the same shape as they were originally. Vinyl siding has been used a long time, too, and that REALLY gets outside exposure.

If modern plastics fail, it is usually due to mechanical failure (ka-booms) rather than deterioration.

Interesting side note: Collectors of Barbie dolls are dismayed because their examples from the late 50's are falling apart.

I have a Glock 20 purchased new in 1992 that is shows no signs of deterioration of any kind. I expect it to outlast me.

Floggings would be in the S&M forum, 10 letters back that'a way. |
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(Though the folks around here have been known to crush a guy's ampersand, now an again.)



Funny, that works pretty good for me, too.

One diagonal datum point to add; of all the parts on my 35-year-old hobby car garaged outside for about 30 years of it's life, the black uv-stabilized nylon parts (including the grille and fanguard) show the least degradation of any components, followed only by the white nylon electrical-connector shells, fan, etc.

White nylon (which is not UV-stabilized) does degrade fairly quickly (talking years, not months) in the sun. But my underhood 'plastic' parts, exposed to high heats, oil, gasoline, antifreeze, and all manner of glup thrown up from the roads, are still in pristine shape when cleaned up.

Tough, but VERY knowledgeable crowd. I would ask away and take my chances. I'd rather take a hit then not find the answer I need. That's just me.......

I am surprised how much I have learned in just over a year.

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Criminals don't register guns.