230 grain FMJ or Hollow Point. for .45acp

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.45&whiskey

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I know this is a dead beaten horse. I am a firm believer in "ball" ammo for the .45 acp that I don't trust or believe in the Hollow Point for .45. I get that the new HP are made to feed and expand in whatever weapon is used but I think about the extra clothing, bullet proof vests, walls, vehicles, windows, cover period that the HP will expand on before spreading its energy in the target. Yes I know same with the FMJ and over penetration is NOT the big deal because its a .45 big and slow. Just some thoughts from everybody. I've really been trying to like HP but I just can't feel safe with them. Thanks to all who help with advice.
 
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Yes I understand the HP is a FMJ whether it expands or not. What I'm curious about is if the target is behind cover and how much of an effect it will be on the HP when it hits compared to the FMJ when it hits.
 
I suggest that you look at some of the bonded bullets ( win pdx1, hornady critical defense) plus many more that are designed to penetrate "cover", maintain their integrity, expand. That said you do not have to worry about bullet resistant vests ( your handgun round should NOT penetrate it.) As for 1" steel grab a 50 BMG, no handgun or rifle for that matter will penetrate all "cover". Over penetration with a 45 acp IS a big deal with FMJ, it will be less likely to penetrate than a +p+ steel core 9mm, But muscle, fat, bone are variable dependent on angle, distance, "cover". So current 45 ACP premium loads offer a greater chance of going through cover, hitting the bad guy, and not exiting. Look at penetration tests with ball to JHP, remember a JHP that does not expand is still .45 just like ball, but you have a greater chance that it will perform as designed. Be Safe,
 
Gold Dots were, and are, to the best of my knowledge the gold standard set by the FBI for penetration and performance. Some guns don't seem to like that huge hole. Enter Hornaday Critical Defense and Critical Duty. Performance wise, these seem to be as close as you are likely to get to the FBI standard, and because of their design, they feed reliably, are undeterred by barriers, and provide the appropriate amount of penetration. I'd run those with no concerns at all, and I do.

At the end of the day though, shoot what you're comfortable with. 230gr ball has been knocking bad guys on their butts for over 100 years, so it works. Whether it will work better on a BG jacked up on crack is the question.

Good Luck and good shooting. :D
 
It's a toss up.

.45 ball served the US Military marvelously from 1911 to 1982. But you have to remember we mere CCW civilians are *not* in a military environment...what I mean is, we are responsible for everything that bullet could possibly hit, whether from poor marksmanship or from that bullet you just launched passing through your assailant. In a military conflict a passing-through bullet that takes out another bad guy could be lovely...in the real world it could get you sued into poverty.

.45 ball may not be as prone to overpenetration as 9mm ball (maybe it is I don't know), but I would recommend leaving the ball for range use and picking up a good HP for defensive use.
 
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If your gun can shoot hollow points with 100% reliability, then I'd use those -- why not? If they expand they are better than ball. If they don't expand they are equivalent to ball. You can't lose IMO.

On the other hand, if you get jams and ftfs with hollow points, better to use ball.
 
Good HP that meet the standard* will not penetrate body armor, and that really is not a criterion that should be applied for most users. That's what failure drill and rifles are for in LE. As for the other intermediate barriers, that stuff is part of the testing protocols for service ammo and a good quality JHP will not have a significant problem with such barriers. None of them are designed to shoot undressed people.

* Testing results from Doctor Roberts: Service Caliber Handgun Duty and Self-Defense Ammo
 
Here is a thought...

If you are carrying a modern 230 grain HP defensive round (I use Speer Gold Dots) it is very likely to expand, even after punching through clothing. If it doesn't expand because the hollow point gets clogged, you still have the equivalent of a FMJ round.

Win-win... No brainer.

Edmo
 
If you will go hog hunting or black bear hunting with rn fmj ammo that will end your obsession with fmj ammo being worthy of carry. When you say new hp designs do you mean speer gd ? Works as well today as decades ago or the hornady XTP or wichesters new version of the old black talon, the SXT . But theres a pile of quality hp bullets made today.

The part I find novel is a rm fmj bullet some what parts tissue make a small temporary cavity under best conditions and a hp under worse conditions becomes a flat point that cause atleast more damage than a rn fmj. Maybe if HP designs slip past you then try a lead swc design. That's what I use for practice now, a 200gr swc.

Now pick several quality hp designs and see if your pistol will cycle them reliably. Look at underwood ammo and Georgia arms for carry ammo. Both use speers bonded jacketed unicor bullet known as a heavier duty gold dot and at +P velocity it expands nicely. My choice is there 200gr but underwood also sells a hornady XTP that proves to be a quality hp and old standard nosler hp that I use in some 357 and 44 hunting loads drive very hot. You can get the Georgia arms load at the next Ashville gun show at the Georgia arms display in OCT. Depending on where you are in the NC mountain you can try some of mine if you wish. I'm in Burnsville
 
Edmo said:
Here is a thought...

If you are carrying a modern 230 grain HP defensive round (I use Speer Gold Dots) it is very likely to expand, even after punching through clothing. If it doesn't expand because the hollow point gets clogged, you still have the equivalent of a FMJ round.

Win-win... No brainer.

Edmo
Click to expand...

Saved me from typing the same thing. I don't feel under gunned with hardball, but I still prefer my 230g Gold Dots.
 
I'm using a new product, called XTREME PENETRATOR, by Lehigh Defense. I've purchased almost everything except the 45 +P. I recommend you at least take a look: 45 ACP +P 200gr Xtreme Penetrator Ammunition

I mean, a 2 inch permanent wound channel - Holy Cow!!!

This may have problems loading into semi autos, I have had some issues with .380 Bodyguard and Glock 42. My tests with .357 S&W 686, FNS .40 and S&W Governor had no glitches...
 
My preference would defiantly be quality hollow point ammunition. The ball ammo just does not have even close to the knock down capabilities of modern self defense hollow point ammunition.

As far as feeling comfortable in using in your defense gun perhaps if you fired successfully a few magazine's full it could sway your apprehension.

The US service did not use hollow point ammo due to some agreement that was never even signed to not use hollow point ammunition.
 
Thanks for all the info gents. I've shot a few different HP in the last couple days. I am really liking them a lot. I. A hard core FMJ guy and I absolutely LOVE wadcutters and semi wadcutters. I use both in my cimarron single action "long colt" revolver. I've been using the Remington golden saber and the Hornandys lately there not cheep but very worth it I'm seeing. Thanks for all the info again. So shooting a hollow point thru a windshield won't expand and lose all energy? It will go right thru it like a FMJ and still keep most energy? Just questions.
 
I have noticed in an abandoned car that the .45 ACP FMJ won't go thru windshield or the doors like the .40 FMJ or even the 115gr 9mm, one test one car only.

I'm I the only one that cuts the beaver tail off, like in the compacts ?
 
I think one thing that you might think about.....

A civy needs stuff that expands---pronto. A civy is more likely to know when he is being attacked and the perp is right in front of them.

Its the police who have more varied and unpredictable situations and have to concern themselves with penetration AND expansion, etc. etc. All this got really going after the Miami Shootout.


If you want bullets that will perform better ---upset---you need bullets designed to do so.

But, you have to shoot alot of several different ones to know that YOUR pistol works with them.
 
We shot ball through windshields in training, and it did ok. As for JHPs that perform on intermediate barriers (window glass, wood panels, arms, etc) - the FBI testing protocols are a decent effort to simulate all the likely scenarios that can impact bullet performance. Doc Roberts' testing, to which I posted a link, will reflect ammo that performs adequately under those circumstances.
 
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