Starline Brass and the Shield

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I am just getting into reloading and was checking out Starline brass. Imagine my surprise when I started looking at 9mm brass for my Shield and I find this description and a special disclaimer.
9mm brass, 9 Luger brass, 9mm Luger brass, 9mm Para brass, 9x19 brass, 9x19 Luger brass, 9mm Parabellum brass, 9mm Glisenti brass, 9mm pistol brass
0.748 - 0.754 O.A.L.
9mm brass: also known as 9mm Parabellum, 9mm Luger and 9x19mm. This cartridge is now one of the most popular pistol cartridges in the world. **NOT RECOMMENDED FOR USE IN S&W SHIELD PISTOLS WITH NEAR-MAX OR +P LOADS, DUE TO POORLY SUPPORTED CHAMBER CONDITION**

Box Size: 500 ($74.00) • 1000 ($130.50)

Poorly supported chamber condition? Are they calling the Shield weak? What are your thoughts?
 
That's a new one on me. I guess that means no Underwood ammo if true. I haven't shot anything but standard pressure in mine tho.
 
No other brass supplier has a caution like that. 'Least, not that I can find. I can't comment about Starline in 9mm. Haven't used it. But, their .45 ACP is quite good. Been using that for years.
 
I would expect that none of the other brass suppliers have even looked at a Shield. Remington and Winchester are notable for pumping out product for generations without an observable change except for a recent decline in quality. Starline on the other hand actually seems to USE their product and keep up with what is going on in shooting today.

That said you need to remember that Starline supply's the Reloading Market and they warranty their cases for a minimum of 5 reloads. So, it's not a surprize to see a warning to NOT "Glock" the brass because that will shorten the case life.

As for the lack of chamber support in a Shield, that is to be expected with any semi auto with a locked breech design based on the Browning High Power. One unfortunate aspect of this particular design is that the recoil spring is carried under the barrel and when you shorten the barrel you shorten how far the slide can move. Once a barrel is made short enough the manufacturer has no choice but to cut the feed ramp deeper into the chamber than ideal because the pistol wont feed if this isn't done. The end result is a chamber with less support than ideal from a reloading standpoint. So, if you want to reload your cases, then you need to limit the pressure so that the brass doesn't bulge in the area of the feed ramp.

So, what can happen if you ignore this. First couple of times I don't expect that you have any issues. However, if you keep "bulge busting" your cases cycle after cycle you will eventually experience a case blowout. When that happens your magazine will get blown partially out of the grip, the grip frame of your pistol will be split, and you'll suffer some minor hand injuries. And, it will be all your fault. Because you ignored Starline's warning to NOT "Glock" your brass and you ignored the manufacturers warning to not shoot reloads.

So, how to make sure you are staying safe. First, you need a case gage to check if you've bulged your cases. Forget about using a barrel for a "plunk test", that case may go plunk just fine if its rotated to fit the feed ramp. Second, I would limit reloads for non bulged brass with the Shield to just 8 reloads. Yeah, it's conservative but a case rupture is not something that is enjoyable to experience.
 
Some handgun makers chambers are simply not make to support hotter loads. Federal has a old leo load that's a 115gr +P+ you probably don't want to shoot ether. If you decide you want to shoot maxed out 9mm loads in a small pistol buy a kahr before shooting them.

From a old tread here
Bad chamber support - http://smith-wessonforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103237&d=1361334576

Good chamber support- http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/a...-fully-supported-chamber-chamber-pics-007.jpg

+P brass from a unsupported chamber - http://smith-wessonforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98501&d=1358429500

scooter 123 has some very good advise too.
 
I just talked with Underwood ammo last week about their hot 40S&W loads. They said it's fine in the Shield and Glock barrels. I tested my own hand loads up to max load and started to get case bulging in the unsupported part of the case by the feed ramp. I wasn't using Starline brass though.
 
I just talked with Underwood ammo last week about their hot 40S&W loads. They said it's fine in the Shield and Glock barrels. I tested my own hand loads up to max load and started to get case bulging in the unsupported part of the case by the feed ramp. I wasn't using Starline brass though.

40, 357 Sig, and 10mm barrels should all be fully supported due to high chamber pressures.

9mm and 45 acp chamber support can vary depending on maker and model.
 
I have found some kinda misshapen Starline casings from my Shield. I am using Titegroup which is a pretty hot powder, although I am well below the maximum load and I'm using 115 grn bullets. I suspect that if I were to approach +P pressure, I would see something like the GLock bulge. I've also seen some changes in shape with Aquila casings and with some of the older Win casings. I've seen nothing that even began to look like it maight be approaching a catastrophic failure. I suspect that the only real difficulty is that some really hot loads might cause some ejection difficulties.

Of the stuff I've used, Starline brass seems to be the highest quality.
 
Buffalo Bore uses Starline brass and they produce some of the hottest commercial loads out there. I've put quite a few through my .40 shield and never had any bulging of the case.
 
Correcting a couple of mis statements in prior posts. Because for some reason some folks seem to think the 40 caliber uses "high" pressures and older calibers don't.

Per SAAMI. The maximum operating pressure for the 45 ACP is 21,000 PSI. The maximum operating pressure for the 9mm Parabellum is 35,001 PSI. The maximum operating pressure for the 40 S&W is 35,000 PSI. The maximum operating pressure for the 10mm is 37,500 PSI. The maximum operating pressure for the 357 Magnum is 35,000 psi. The maximum operating pressure for the 357 SIG is 40,000 PSI.

Conclusions. First, among the most popular semi auto calibers the only one that operates at a "low" pressure is the 45 ACP. The 357 Magnum wasn't the first high pressure pistol caliber as some believe, the first pistol caliber in wide use that operated at a "high" pressure was the 9mm Parabellum at 35,001 PSI and that was derived from the 7.65 Parabellum at 34,000 PSI. IMO the 357 Magnum likely was in part a result of the 9mm Parabellum demonstrating that brass pistol cases could safely withstand these operating pressures. It's also worth noting that the 9mm, the 40 caliber, and the 357 Magnum all operate at the same maximum pressure and it's not that "high". If you want "high" pressures today you can start with the 10mm @ 37,500, move up to the 357 SIG @ 40,000, and then go on from there to the 500 Magnum which features a maximum pressure of 60,000 psi.

Now, what happens when you "Glock" your brass. First, you get a bulge in the area of the feed ramp intrusion into the chamber. Since this bulge won't permit a reloaded round to chamber that bulge has to be sized back down, what is typically called "bulge busting". Every time you do this you work harden that area of the case and sooner or later that work hardening can produce unseen micro cracks in the wall of the case. Folks, Cracks aren't very strong, in fact a Full Depth Crack has no strength whatsoever under tension. Fire a case that has been badly compromised by microcracks and if that area isn't well supported it will blow out. If it's bad enough, even a well supported case will have a case head seperation.

BTW, Feed Ramp Blowouts are fairly benign, they usually just destroy the frame on a polymer pistol or blow the grip panels off a 1911 and badly bruise the shooter. Triple charges of a fast powder such as Titegroup can cause Death, so anyone who reloads needs to take steps to insure they won't ever produce a double or triple charge. I would also suggest taking steps to reduce the chance of a feed ramp blowout because by every report I've seen they really do sting and you usually total your pistol.

BTW, a simple test for case support is to pull the barrel, chamber a case or round, and look at the the case exposure in the area of the feed ramp. If you can see any casing above the edge of the extractor groove chamfer you may have some partial support. Because with a semi auto the "floor" of the case head commonly stops at the edge of that chamfer or at most 1/16 inch above that edge. How much lack of support exists is determined by how much of the side wall of the casing is exposed. Note, the radius between the chamber and feed ramp doesn't provide any support so you need to include that in your evaluation. If you want to get really exacting you could use Prussian Blue paste to butter the chamber wall and then insert and remove a clean case to determine the "fingerprint" of the support. BTW, use a long wood dowel down the barrel to "roll" the case a bit for this and to poke the case free. Note, Prussian Blue paste can be found at NAPA and Repair Shop level Auto Parts stores because it's perfect for checking the seal of a freshly lapped Valve Seat on a cylinder head.
 
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