I'm sure i'm not the first to think of this, but it hit me the other day. If a revolver can hold 6-7 rounds like a Glock 43 or shield or XDS 3.3, why don't people stick with revolvers? I haven't done or weight comparison, but I assume it's the same? Aren't revolvers more "reliable" atleast they can't jam and you just keep pulling the trigger right?

I'm just thinking about picking up Buds model 10 38 SPL used by LEO.

Also, in the event I do go with a revolver, why snubnose at 2" and not 3"?

i just found a 3" 64-3. as soon as i can find the right rig, its gonna be carried. would i rather have a 9mm or .357? no compairison. is the k frame harder to conceal? a little. but no one will argue the .357 is not a better option than 9mm. the buds model 10's are hit or miss as far as finish. as with most trade in LEO guns, carried tons, shot little, and internally sound.

I think you will find more people are carrying a revolver than you think. I alternate between my Shield and a J frame 432. The 432pd is perfect for Pocket carry.

Since you haven't tried it, I'll point out some of the challenges with revolvers ( I carry revolvers routinely).
The cylinder on a 6 shot and up are typically wider than a slim semiauto. I don't want a 7 shot revolver IWB.
A 3" revolver is as long as a 4" semi auto (revolver barrels are measured from the front of the cylinder).
Revolvers can jam, it is usually ammo related, and in my experience, likely cannot be fixed quickly. Ever see a squib stuck in the barrel/cylinder gap?
Something simple like powder under the star or a loose ejector rod can tie up a revolver.
One should be proficient with the long double action pull of a revolver to carry it.
A big rubber stock on a revolver is fun to shoot, but a small wood stock won't hang up on clothes.

All carry guns are compromises, IMHO.

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Science plus Art

Revolver or semi-automatic is a tough a question to resolve so I have both and it depends on the weather and where I am going when I leave the house which one I carry...

I have a model 10 2" but I never use it for CCW because of size and weight...I use it riding my quad in the Arizona desert in a Lobe flap holster...

I rotate between wheels and semis .those that practice alot with wheels tend to be very arcuate with them

Because not everyone carries a Glock 43 or a xds.

Both have their draw backs. Revolvers can jam too and like I found out last week they don't always set off the round. I went from having 6 rounds to 2 actual rounds that fired. Of course this can be with a semi auto too. Pulling the trigger too fast can also short stroke it.....where the cylinder doesn't have time to rotate. Sights are not exactly quickly aquired especially in less than ideal lighting. The Glock 43 or xds are ment as compact, light carry guns...almost pockets guns...and for some they are where as the model 10 is a full size revolver weighing around 34oz, same as a Beretta.

Both have their place but it's what you're used to. I carry a small 38spl ONLY when nothing else will work otherwise MY smallest gun is a Glock 19

Thanks for pointing out drawback. As for short stroking, wouldnt that mean the timing is off or something is loose? Is there no night sights for revolvers?

No. It means you are pulling the trigger too fast and not letting it reset.

Model 10 have a black rear U notch and a front black sight.

Short stroking is not letting the trigger reset...I have a Ruger LCR that has a long trigger reset and I have more than once not allowed the trigger to reset...

There are night sights for revolvers, but first you have to have a revolver that you can change the sights in. A model 10 has a fixed rear, and a solid mounted front. Most revolvers have target sights for a rear if not fixed, so generally people will upgrade the front to a tritium sight if it can be easily changed. A revolver will be thicker than a semi-auto, and also harder to conceal under light clothing as they're generally longer than a comparable semi-auto.

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1st smiles,lies.Last,gunfire.

Pick a platform or platforms and ......practice practice practice........

all have pros and cons......IMHO most "civilians" are/can be well served by a 5-6 shot revolver...... most of us carry a firearm for a 1 in 100,000 (or is it 1,000,000) chance of having to defend ourselves or a loved one...... we are not strapping on a gun with the intent of going in harms way!

Or you could compromise... and carry both.

My EDC is almost always my Shield, or if I'm dressed really light for the office I pocket carry a SIG P238. No matter what though, I always have my Airweight J Frame strapped to my ankle as a BUG.

I've read a lot of Mas Ayoob's writings, and he's a strong believer that a revolver will take a lot more dirt/crud/grime and still perform more reliably than a semi-auto ever will. Thinking about the mechanics of each weapon I tend to agree, so the little .38 Special is primarily ankle carry and gets a quick swab out every weekend to keep the bore clean.

I also carry a spare speed strip for the .38 and a spare magazine for the Shield in a SnagMag.

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Too many S&W's to mention...

Many will say a revolver is more reliable, but being the contrarian that I am, I see it differently.

When a semi has an issue, it's usually just going to take a tap/rack.
When a revolver has an issue, it's usually going to take a gunsmith.

Semis are fairly simple designs, generally robust and easy to work with.
Revolvers are more fragile, in my opinion, with many more small, sensitive parts. Hand, crane/yoke, ejector, cylinder stop, lots of fragile bits. Timing issues aren't easily remedied, either.

What's more reliable- something that may malf more frequently but is a quick fix, or something that may malf less frequently but when it does, it's completely out of service?

Other talking points- most if not all people will shoot most semi-auto triggers better than they will a traditional DA revolver trigger. What good is any carry piece if you can't shoot it well? Of course, you should train, but there's more to overcome with shooting a DA revolver well. No cylinder gap to worry about in a semi. Semis are going to have thinner options for concealment.
It's a trivial point but I don't like the 38spl cartridge at all. It's a relic of the smokeless transition and it bugs me that you'd carry a larger cartridge than the 9mm for a slower same-sized bullet.

I grew up with revolvrs , hunted with them and carried a 38sp snubby for 19 years as my CC . When lite weight thin single stack polymer pistols proved reliable in general I bought a kahr cw9 that gave me a 17oz 7+1 shot pistol with a extra 8 rounds mag and a smooth 5lb double action trigger and never looked back to a revolver for CC . Still enjoy shooting revolvers and hunt with them but no more CC duty for them .

I'm in the camp of those who prefers a revolver over a micro auto that doesn't hold any more rounds or only one or two more at most. If I'm carrying a semi-auto, it's strictly for the added capacity.

Some like to point to the faster reload capability of the auto-loader, but considering most civilian encounters are generally reactive, close-quarter and resolved very quickly, I don't see the opportunity for reloads being necessary or even realistically possible. You fight with what's onboard with the scenario being resolved either way with what's in the gun.

A revolver is more reliable IMO. If the majority of civilian encounters are close-quarter, the revolver is more effective in that environment due to it's ability to make muzzle contact shots, function better in a grappling entanglement and is immune to limp-wristing. I have the same perspective on Tap-Rack-Back as I do reloading...there simply won't be time. With a revolver, it's usually simply a matter of pulling the trigger again.

I don't care for 3" snubs nor the model 10. I like pocket carry, the ability to fire from a jacket pocket and the close-quarter and weapon retention advantages of an enclosed hammer snub. A 3" revolver with an exposed hammer loses those advantages for little in return.

I started in LE with revolvers and sometimes still carry a five shot J-frame as a pocket gun or (rarely) a full size six shot 4" .38 sixgun on my belt. These days, it is usually now a .40 Glock, either a issued G23 on duty or my old G22 off the clock. The Glocks are flatter, lighter, hold more rounds, and I now have enough years practicing with them that I now shoot them better than my old Model 10s. I can detail strip and replace any part on the Glocks as well.

The answer to this question is the same as always; which do you shoot more effectively?

We can debate reliability or ease of carry, but it's the very first shot or two that makes all the difference. Can you put those first two shots on target, quickly? If you can't do it quickly, they'll shoot you first. If you're faster, but miss, the shots didn't solve the issue.

So, which do you shoot better? Carry that one.

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Freedom isn't free.

There are people out there in the internet cloud that say they're able to carry some mighty large guns concealed. Obviously (probably), how you dress has a lot to do with what you can conceal successfully. You can hide a lot more under a drover's coat than a tee shirt.

But for most of us, selecting a concealed carry gun is an exercise in compromise. You try to balance power (caliber) and capacity with physical size to find a place in the spectrum where you are comfortable with the potential stopping power and feel that you can successfully conceal the gun and carry it comfortably for long periods. The bigger the gun, the harder it is to successfully conceal, and the heavier and thus more uncomfortable to carry it becomes.

A lightweight, 2" barrel J-frame revolver can be comfortably carried in the front pocket of a lot of men's slacks. A 3" model 60 has the same capacity, but probably won't fit in that pocket and is heavier. A 3" 686 is definitely a holster gun, and would be more uncomfortable than a lot of semi-autos stuck inside the waistband.

For what it's worth, I carried a 642 for some years as my primary EDC before "discovering" the Shield which is now my main EDC, but the 642 still comes out from time to time.

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Jim - M&P Pro 40L/Shield 40

It is all up to you.
What feels good, what hits good and is there enough power to do the job?
If 5 rounds are insufficient you it off more than you can chew.
I love my J frames and sometimes feel the need to step it up a notch depending on where I may go. First choice is avoid bad places.
On long trips in strange areas I may take my J in an ankle rig 158gr FBI Loads. and 27 Glock IWB and Glock 22 in a Miami Classic. Over kill yes but I did say long trip in unknown areas. My wife would have her 642 and ammo as always.

J in ankle rig is easy to reach when in a car. Big plus for me.
Think out the scenario and plan accordingly.

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Have a blessed day ,
Bull

I agree to a point, but think we must also consider the vast majority of civilian encounters occur at extremely close distances(usually 3 yards or under). I just can't see there being much of a difference in putting a couple of rounds on target quickly at those distances for most people. And a gunfight is not the only situation that needs to be addressed. I think it perhaps more likely the armed civilian will have to defend against assailants not armed with firearms, but with knives, makeshift impact weapons, multiple unarmed attackers etc. and in those scenarios and with ECQ in general, I think a revolver has certain strengths, especially in terms of getting off that critical first shot.

A 7-shot L-Comp. Have carried autos and revolvers both, but as I get older (and maybe a bit wiser) I gravitate more and more towards wheel guns for carry. The K-Comp and the 357 Carry Gun are when minimal profile is called for.





And this one allows me to practice ( a lot) with lead 38 Specials and save the comp guns for a small diet of jacketed.



Revolver work, and here I'm talking only double action, takes work and constant practice. It is a perishable skill.

Keith

He never stated a distance? But also I think it goes to fundamentals. If you can put rounds on a target further away than what you expect, you should be able to do it closer. I think rastoff was saying that its important to find the gun where you can hit where youre aiming.

But why do you think a revolver is better at getting critical first shots off?

If you like them and shoot them well, carry what you're comfortable with.

At one point my wheel guns were sold as I had little use for them and I could shoot the autos better and with less effort. One day out of the blue I found I could shoot a snubby pretty well with little effort. The autos I carry have eight round capacities so having a bunch of bullets on hand is not a priority.

The autos are fine when dressed for it but for discreet carry/backup use its always going to be a revolver.

Sir,

If it helps at all, my EDC is one of those Buds Ex-Australian, 4" round-butt model 10s. I practice regularly (easy to practice when its a fun thing to do), and feel very confident with it.

Many people that have the view of armed self-defense in the context of shooting at the range, usually because that is the only training they have ever done with a firearm. They more often than not have an exception that there will be a certain degree of distance or separation, but stats show that is usually not case in civilian encounters and in ECQ/extreme close-quarter situations, the slide of the semi-auto will often be fouled(pushed out if battery) or the gun will jam and a second shot will not be possible. Clearing a jam is usually not a realistic possibility when you're in a clinch or ground entanglement, especially if the assailant is armed with any type of weapon.

I totally disagree when you say the slide will often be fouled. There have been many people that have defended themselves with autos. I'm not saying it's not a consideration, I'm saying it appears to me you are overstating facts. Like it happens regularly. I'm really skeptical about it. And I've actually never read an account of it happening in a self defense situation.

With that said, I carry a 442 every day. But I do not have a problem with someone who carries an auto. All of my autos are full sized at present and I only carry them when I have the right clothes to do it. I think both platforms have their upsides and downsides.

I have also wondered why anyone would choose a 6 + 1 autoloader over a revolver. The big thing for me is that a snubby revolver is what I would want in a CQB situation. It has no slide to impinge or push out of battery, no magazine release to accidently activate, no ejection port to foul, and retention is about as good as it gets. If a threat does manage to get his hand on a revolver tight enough to bind the cylinder, all the defender has to do is rotate the gun sharply clockwise (on an S&W) while pressing the trigger, and the cylinder will turn. A shrouded or concealed-hammer snub-nose revolver is about the ultimate in tamper-proof CQB guns. Of course, your priorities and resultant strategies may be different.

Yup. Many people use the range as their indicator. I sure do, I mean I dontcare to go through every single possibility (yea judge me people). But as for slide being pushed out of battery, how would this happen? I imagine a struggle on thr ground, you pull out your gun and shoot at the guy.

It's grabbed or simply makes contact with you or the assailants body. Grappling entanglements and ground encounters can be very chaotic and messy. It's relatively easy to foul the first shot or for the gun to jam after it. I think it perhaps hard to understand unless you've participated in contact force on force training. People generally underestimate how quickly someone can close in on them as well as overestimate the effects their shots will have. Look at the video footage of the petite female news reporter shot several times at point blank range. She was still able to run away. Now imagine an enraged 200 lb knife-wielding assailant closing on you on from 5 feet. Will you be able to draw, shoot and stop him? What about even if you get off the X/incorporate movement? These scenarios are not improbable, they are the norm.

Here's some FoF ECQ training to get the idea. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nxJMFVBMFwc

Well the 200lb knife wielding guy point is moot. Revolver or semi you cant draw in time.

Ive never participated in contact force on force but I feel like the gun being unable to fire is more like a thing out of the movies where someone uses their hand to stop a sword from stabbing them.

I saw a youtube video where someone shot a glock wrapped in rubberbands. I dont think someone could keep the slide from firing. I could see the follow up shot being jammed if that did happen. Which would require a rerack that may or may not be possible which i see how the revolver would shine

What do you mean by makes contact with assailants body? Like what type of contact?

You never know what will happen. You could brush by someone on a busy street and have all hell brake loose on YOU . How you handle it may depend on how you handle a real deal fight growing up . If your lucky you can step aside and sweep a BG aside using your weak hand and arm and step back a half step with your strong side leg so you could draw and shoot with your pistol close to your body . And if a BG gets his hands on you handgun be it a pistol or revolver and grabs it the revolver guy has ZERO chance to fire it if the cylinder is grabbed . With a pistol you may be able to shot once if not out of battery so not sure why you why a revolver is any better??!! So snubby guys could be poo out of luck too .

All you can do is practice and hope if ever needed to draw your handgun AND use it and get it all right and survive !

Finding a place to practice is not something many private ranges allow unless its part of a scheduled training class , $$$ . So you ether do it at home or at a friends property or at a uncontrolled public ranges like a forestry range .

But if that's not practical for you buy an airsoft and practice at home .

I'm lucky I can shoot at home .

But if some guy jumps me out of the clear blue and I don't pick upon it and find my self in a up close and personal physical disagreement I'm not going to be worry'n about a handgun as I could shoot myself or some one near by but its possible that my knife will be coming into action . Its been known to calm down tense and stressful moment in years gone by and I'm to darn old and broken down to roll around on the ground with some one .

Nothings sure fire and if you have never been a a good ole hand to hand before to know how you can handle your self and ended up rolled around in a parking lot with some one who knows what will happen to a hand to hand cherry . Probably end up in the hospital .

The video I provided shows how these things can happen in a ground scenario. A semi-auto will fire once if you hold onto the slide(in a relatively controlled manner) and prevent it from cycling. However, it will not fire out of battery such as if you pushed the muzzle into the assailant body or he simply came down on it(such as from a mounted position) or he simply crashes his body into you as you try to draw. It is also likely if the assailant has ahold of the muzzle or you are otherwise struggling for control over the weapon that it will be forced out of battery. If you are firing from retention during a CQ struggle, it's also possible for the slide to make contact with part of your body during it's rearward movement and cause it to jam. These are not some hypothetical or far fetched movie ideas. Just about every reputable CQ instructor will cover this materiel. It's really pretty standard stuff.

It's quite easy to keep the slide from cycling. All you need is a thumb. We did this in the academy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r4XpFYCaIo

As far as types of contacts, there's a video of officer struggling with suspect, suspect gets gun away from officer. When K9 attempts to apprehend suspect, he pistol whips the dog. Muzzle of the gun hits the ground with just enough force to knock it out of battery. Saved the cops life and allowed him to draw secondary.


Another thing to consider with semi autos is the mag being released, whether in a struggle, or while in a pocket.

I believe that happened to George Zimmerman. But I haven't been able to find the source where I read that.

I had a buddy at work get into a fight with a suspect. They ended up on the ground, and suspect began to flee. We caught him. Upon returning to the vehicle, I found a Glock mag on the ground. We search suspect again thinking we might have missed the gun. Nothing. Went back and retraced his steps to see where he ditched the gun. Nothing.

Turns out, when my partner fell, his holster flexed from his weight and the mag released was pushed in and his mag fell out.

I do carry a semi auto at times. But I prefer my revolvers.

And grab the cylinder of a revolver and it won't fire a single shot if it can't rotate .

Cylinders are round, metal, and rather slick. Maybe if you're going to try that aikido business, maybe go for blocking the hammer

That's true, but it's extremely difficult to maintain such a grip on a snub revolver for any duration in an all out struggle over the weapon. The semi-auto will often fire even if barrel is grabbed providing it's not pushed out of battery(although it will return to being in battery once it's freed up), but then you're jammed. With the snub, there's no such issue.

I think we all love this debate. The corollary to the above is if you press an automatic's barrel against someone it won't cycle. A revolver will fire every time.

More importantly, if someone grab your revolver's cylinder you made some tactical errors from the outset. That's a whole other discussion.

The key is concealment. A little J-frame disappears in your pocket. Not too many pistols in what we call "defensive" calibers can match that but there are some, such as SIG's P238, P938, and a couple of others. Beretta's currently out of production, tip-up barreled pistols in "mouse calibers" can make the same pocket disappearance claim. If the Kahrs can do that, or the S&W Shields, I don't know because I haven't handled them - yet.

If you have a tucked in shirt whilst wearing shorts, slacks, or jeans you either carry a gun in your pocket or get one of those "tuckable" holsters - I never have tried one of those. But pocket carry is where it's at when dressed casually like that. It all changes when vets, coats, and sweaters are worn.

There are other considerations as well. Long, safe, double action trigger pulls are preferable to some folks versus single action pistols or modern, Glock-style "tricky" triggers. Traditional double action pistols are another choice but not as commonly founds as they used to be.

Skill with your weapon of choice is also a serious consideration but even variable skills are largely offset by the fact that most of the time you're up close and personal when you need your defensive handgun.

It's all a compromise. Handguns are, and always have been, a compromise. If you knew you were going to a gunfight, I mean KNEW, you might not even take a handgun, or you'd take it as backup.

Of course you have... George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin. I'm basing my comments on the stats I'm aware of for civilian encounters(primarily distances involved) although there is no national database keeping records of such things and discussing and working on these issues with PD's and LEO's I've trained for the past 3 decades. They of course are involved in a lot of actual incidents themselves as well as responding to and investigating ones involving private citizens and we spend a lot of time analyzing and ways to better prepare. There are countless caught on camera videos on youtube of armed encounters that quickly closed to grappling entanglements and ground battles over control of a firearm. Am I overstating? If so, it would only be because it's a vital area of self-defense that so many "gun guys" completely ignore.

The answer is always... it depends.
What do you shoot well? What firearm are you confident with? What kind of clothing are you going to wear? Cold weather? Hot weather? Are you willing to change your wardrobe to carry the one weapon you choose? Do you have the rig (holster and at least one reload) to support the firearm comfortably for hours on end? Can you sit, stand, bend and do normal functions without printing your firearm? Is concealment more important than big bore?
I carry whatever seems appropriate for the purpose. I have multiple choices of calibers and platforms (revolver or semi) and am proficient with both.
If traveling through a known danger zone I might dress for concealing something bigger bore and carry something with higher capacity. If traveling to the desert and sweating, I might opt for a stainless firearm that is small and can be carried concealed under a T-shirt.
It depends... be proficient with the firearm you choose and learn to carry it in a rig that best suits your circumstances.
There is an old saying... beware of the man with one gun... he is probably very proficient with it.

Most people will shoot an auto a little better. Especially newbies. That said, I carry snubs 99% of the time. I find grabbing the grip of a revo just feels more natural to me in a stressful situation.

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

In all my years, I've never experienced a short stroke failure while rapid firing revolvers. Perhaps Jerry Miculek might be able to clarify the subject for us. IMO, short stroking is an operator error, not a mechanical error, and I've observed something similar happen with students using semi-autos who fail to release the trigger far enough to reset before resuming trigger pull for a follow up shot that never happens.

Just my personal opinion, but all things being equal regarding firearm quality, proper maintenance, and use of standard manufactured ammo, I agree with Daniel W. that the revolver has fewer issues than semi-autos in a close quarters encounters. It's simply a matter of mechanics. I carry both. My 8-shot 9mm semi auto is DAO, which complements the snubby J Frame I carry for backup. I trust both, but a snubby revolver is a great concealed carry option for either primary or backup duty. The current crop of .38 Special +P HP ammo is more than sufficient for personal SD. If I didn't love my Sig P290RS as much as I do, I'd carry two J Frames.

This is an interesting subject to me as I just traded in my 442 for a Shield. For me, as a woman with small hands, practicing with the 442 was brutal on my hands and I hated shooting it so stopped carrying and going to the range. If I ever had to use it I would probably have a hard time getting back on target after the first shot. With the shield I already shoot much better and enjoy shooting it so will go much more often to practice.

At first I didn't understand what you were getting at, but reading the subsequent posts has clarified it for me.

This falls in to the vast chasm of, "Yeah, but what if..." You may insert any scenario into that statement and any counter will be countered with yet another what if.

For me, if the fight is hands on, I probably won't even present the gun. I'm going to deal with the assailant as best I can, create space, then present the gun.

Back to my previous comment. If you have to shoot, don't you want the gun you shoot best? I do.

As far as slides getting tangled up etc., yeah, it can happen. Cylinders can get tangled too. However, I refer you to the afore mentioned George Zimmerman. He was engaged in hand to hand combat, was on the ground and the assailant was on to of him slamming his head into the ground. He was able to present his semi-auto and dispatch his assailant.

Yes, there are scenarios where each gun has its strengths and weaknesses. You've made some valid points. However, they are not relevant to how well you shoot a particular gun.

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Freedom isn't free.

Over time I've shifted from carrying small (and medium) semi-auto's to snubbies. I can shoot snubbies fairly well and have confidence in them when loaded with .38+P or .357 Mag. Revolvers have been more reliable in my experience (zero malfunctions with revolvers, not true with multiple semi-auto's.). I don't see the need for more firepower or faster reloads, so a snubbie fits my "needs" well.

Sounds more like a school yards full of children arguing about how There BLANK is better there your BLANK . fill in the BLANK!!

Heck I wonder how many here have really had a serious fight with any to even know how you ill react or if you react ..

It does not matter if you have a semi-auto or a revolver as both can be stopped from functioning at least momentarily and even turned on you . Nothing here is to be proven .

Sounds like a cranky curmudgeon woke from his nap. "You kids get off my lawn!"

I carry a revolver. My 2.5" m19 was lost to an evidence locker after a CCW engagement so now I carry a Taurus 605 because it is easily replaceable. It has fixed sights that tritium tubes were inserted into with 5 minutes on my drill press $5.00 for the tubes from eBay and a couple dabs of epoxy it has nice larger wooden grips and a trigger job. I practice religiously and don't feel under gunned with its 5 rounds.
As for the comment about .38 special being a holdover from the black powder/smokeless transition and being weaker than a 9mm; while 9mm is a fine cartrige I get somewhere around 400 ft/lbs from my 38 special chronographed from a 2" barrell with stellar performance on hogs and swimming pools. Aside from selected buffalo bore loadings I've never seen a 9mm perform anywhere close to that even out of my high power. A revolver saved my hide once and will be in my hand when they scrape my mortal remains into a bag should it fail me.

Of course, the other side of that coin is that every day people successfully defend themselves with pistols made by High Point, Jennings, and Raven to name a few. Some prevail having only their wits and a strong command voice available to them. But regardless of how instructive and ultimately useful it may be, there is no "Command Voice Forum" because, well, it just wouldn't be that entertaining. I can only speak for myself, but I doubt that anyone has been truly upset by this thread. I posted because there are people on this forum whom I respect, and I am interested in their opinions. They have doubtless considered things I have not.

In addition to the above, it's really just a form of bench racing. True, it ultimately serves no practical purpose, but if the people participating are interesting enough, it can be a lot of fun!

In 1974 I was in a gun battle with three bad guys who just held up a liquor store. As a plain clothes detective my service weapon was a Colt DS and I emptied it twice before coming out on top, but this was luck as much as skill. Until this past Feb. I carried a J frame but recently switched to an M&P .380 b/c it's just easier to carry, at least for me (I pocket carry in a holster). The gun has been 100% w/everything at the range so I have confidence in it. My daily travels are pretty safe, I no longer go to bad areas knowingly and I don't "engage" anyone. As has been said carry what you shoot best and hope you never have to employ this skill set but practice regularly.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)