Preventing Squib Load Accidents

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FederalHST

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I was just reading the thread where a 40mm Shield had a catastrophic explosion that may have been caused by a squib load.. I understand how it happens.. but felt there is always something to be learned from others... My questions are a follows..

Is there any way to detect over/ under charged bullets such as weighing each round to make sure it is not way under or over the correct weight?

Those who have experienced a squib load misfire... What was the chain of events?... I'm assuming you pulled the trigger and it appears there was a successful ignition of the round, but with a failure to eject/ extract... Is a squib recoil noticeably softer? what is the tell tail signs you just had a squib load fired?

After seeing those pictures, I will always check the chamber / barrel after a failure to eject/ extract..It is easy to just assume it was an extraction problem due to some other cause like an operator error.

If this was factory first run - quality ammo... and you had a squib misfire... It would be common sense stop using that batch... but would you then contact the ammo manufacture? Maybe tell the retailers too?
 
My first squib I was totally unaware of,heavy revolver,light loads,good hearing protection,100 rounds into the session.The gun locked up preventing the next shot which would have ringed the barrel.My second,I was very aware of [emoji1]
 
doesnt sound right, recoil feels different, gun will usually fail to eject.
my solution to the problem - dont shoot reloads unless they are your own and you are an experienced loader.
I shoot mine all day everyday but I also trickle weigh every load and am very meticulous with mine. Far more than any factory load could be.
 
I don't reload myself .. but would weighing them allow you to tell a hot load or are the case and bullet weights different enough that you wouldn't be able to tell unless it was well over the expected number of grains of powder ..

the thread on the 40 shield that had a catastrophic failure bothered me in that the brand of remanufactured ammo was never revealed and the writer said he was a long time reloader but was shooting remanufactured ammo which I would think he would be shoot his own reloads ..

I'm very interested in the out come as my daughter is seriously looking at the 40 Shield for her carry pistol when she gets her CC this summer.
 
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Whitwabit said:
I don't reload myself .. but would weighing them allow you to tell a hot load or are the case and bullet weights different enough that you wouldn't be able to tell unless it was well over the expected number of grains of powder ..

the thread on the 40 shield that had a catastrophic failure bothered me in that the brand of remanufactured ammo was never revealed and the writer said he was a long time reloader but was shooting remanufactured ammo which I would think he would be shoot his own reloads ..

I'm very interested in the out come as my daughter is seriously looking at the 40 Shield for her carry pistol when she gets her CC this summer.
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weighing completed rounds probably wouldnt work as the powder loads are very small to begin with. the brass and bullet weight could skew the total weight enough to alter the results and cover up a mistake.

some who load use auto powder dispensers and progressive presses. Ive seen double charges and no charges with singles and progressives.

I load each round measuring each powder load and focus on making the very best round I can. I size and trim every case and pay a lot of attention to oal.

it takes a lot longer but not as long as it would be if you made a mistake and it went boom.

A lot of guys are just trying to turn out rounds as quickly as possible. I prefer to go slow and keep my hands and eyes intact.
 
double charges are more likely to be spotted as opposed to squib loads as the case capacity would be overflowing if not careful and depending on what powder you were using.
 
I've only been reloading for about 2 years, but I weigh every powder drop. I have a whole system with different colored loading blocks and using tricklers to get to the desired weight. While I am not gonna say I will ever make a mistake with reloads, I know I will ever overcharge or undercharge a case.

I have no desire to crank out hundreds of rounds on a progressive press. I load no more than 100 rounds a session, usually 50.

I was present for a squib once. Guy next to me shooting a Beretta 92. We were chatting and I was loading my mags. I heard a very soft report and told him to check that barrel. We field stripped it and saw the squib in ththe barrel.
 
You will have a very hard time determining whether a loaded cartridge is 5 grains lighter or heavier by weighing it fully assembled.

A potential squib is very easy to detect. You pull the trigger and don't feel the recoil of the gun. Either it will be very light in which case the bullet probably left the chamber, or you feel like you just shot a starter's pistol with some noise and no recoil. In any of these cases, you should STOP shooting.

Take out the magazine.

Most likely, the case is still in the chamber. If you pull the slide back, you'll see the case come out. You can then field strip the gun and look into the barrel for any obstruction. If there is none, the bullet exited the barrel and you are OK to resume. If it is blocked, take your range rod out and pound the bullet out of the barrel with multiple light taps (you do carry a range rod and hammer in your range bag, right?). No big deal if you've practiced this before. This is the same technique you use to slug your barrel when preparing to use cast bullets in your gun. Like practicing putting on snow chains on a sunny day at home instead of on the side of the road at night in a storm, you want to learn how to do this before you are forced to do so.

I pull the barrel out of my autoloaders after each session when cleaning and also do this occasionally at the range when checking for leading. You should be able to do this in less than 30 seconds so checking for bore obstructions should be no big deal.
 
I had one a couple years ago firing my G 19 at the outdoor range. Everything was going fine until I fired and the recoil felt funny. Saw a stovepipe, dropped the mag, cleared the jam and inserted mag let the slide go home and it would not go into full battery. Cleared the round that was about 3/4 into the barrel 3 or 4 times and each time i racked it the round went in a litter deeper. Hmmm, ***?
Finally did a field strip at the range and couldn't see day light thru the barrel. A little chill ran thru me thinking about what would of happened it I re racked just 1 more time.
Got home thru the barrel in the freezer for a hour and using a wood dowel and 2 taps of a hammer got the squib out.
 
A squib most likely will not blow a gun up.In a revolver it will ring or bulge the barrel.In a semi auto,it will blow out the mag well and maybe the grips.The gun in the earlier thread probably had a double or triple charge of a fast powder.
 
I've never had a squib load in any load I built. I went from a single stage press to the Dillon some years back & my process was that if a case hung (typically in the sizing die), I pulled the rest of the in-process cases & inspected each one. Once I cleared the machine, I completed the process on each as a single cartridge before I started over.
It is my belief that double loads can come about while fighting with a stuck case, so the foregoing is my way of preventing such an occurance. I'd rather loose a case load of powder (if in doubt) than risk an accident... but frankly, because I stop & pull the other cases, they are fine after inspecting, to put back in & complete after the problem has been dealt with.

I did have a squib load (with dept issued practice reloads) tie up my revolver in a very intense training program. Pretty humilting to say the least.

A buddy of mine was shooting IPSC with a long slide 1911 in 45ACP... with a heavily throated barrel. He was practicing when one of his loads blew up his gun... I was not present but saw the gun & pieces after.
The case failed at the feed ramp, blew the expensive premium magazine out in pieces, live rounds all over, wood grips splintered. He had minor hand injuries & some flash burns to his face. The main parts were undamaged & the gun was rebuilt.
He was using some other brand of progressive loader. We pulled apart every other shell he loaded that day & did not find any doubles or empties. SOooo, He could never say whether it was a double charge (which I suspect) or bullet set back from inadequate crimp & the bullet strinking the feed ramp.

In reloading, I use minimum expander needed to start the base of the bullet in the case & a taper crimp die to turn in the flare in Semi-auto cartridges. Another reloading trick, is to pull your barrel & test that your loads will chamber properly & without being forced into the chamber. Yes, there are guages for that...

I also note the 1911 was a gun built on a forged frame & slide. What might the results have been with polymer frame?
 
flagman1776 said:
I also note the 1911 was a gun built on a forged frame & slide. What might the results have been with polymer frame?
Click to expand...

A cracked frame at least. I've read about a number of blowouts where a steel or alloy framed gun blows out the magazine and maybe cracks the grips, but the rest of the gun stays intact unless the load is so big that the barrel blows up. I've read a few stories of plastic framed guns surviving to the point of a new shooter continuing to shoot and not knowing that he had a near catastrophic situation, but most of the time, the frame is cracked and the gun is ruined.
 
WGSNewnan19 said:
double charges are more likely to be spotted as opposed to squib loads as the case capacity would be overflowing if not careful and depending on what powder you were using.
Click to expand...

I've always tried to build my loads around the slowest powder that gives me the velocity and accuracy I want. Heavier charges are more apt to overflow.

I don't use a progressive press. It's simple enough to use a flashlight and check a 50 round loading block to be certain each case has a similar charge prior to seating bullets.

I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around how a shooter can have a squib load in a semi-auto and have the gun chamber another round without shooter assistance. Anytime I've tried cat sneeze loads in a semi-auto, I usually end up with a manually activated single shot, even if the bullet exits the barrel. I suppose it's human nature to blame a catastrophic failure on anything other than yourself. If it's not a life or death situation, you always have time to examine the gun if it doesn't work properly. Seems like I've heard that at every shooting class I've ever taken.
 
For progressive presses there are separate dies for checking the powder level. They have a plunger that drops down to the powder level that gives a visual as to how much or little powder dropped into the case. Hornady's Powder Cop is one such die and I'll use one when I get my progressive press set up. It adds another pull on the lever but is worth the extra one or two seconds to finish a round.
 
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In the Army, we called them "Pop, no Bang". Of course it was a lot easier to tell with lousy (or no) hearing protection, but "pop, no Recoil" is the same concept. The deal was to hold the weapon pointed downrange for 15 seconds in case it was a slow burn because of faulty primer seating or other ammo or weapon anomaly, then rack the round out, check the chamber, and run a rod down from the muzzle (without looking) to make sure the bore was clear, then re-check the chamber. Usually, it was one bad round out of thousands.
 
MichiganScott said:
I've always tried to build my loads around the slowest powder that gives me the velocity and accuracy I want. Heavier charges are more apt to overflow.

I don't use a progressive press. It's simple enough to use a flashlight and check a 50 round loading block to be certain each case has a similar charge prior to seating bullets.

I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around how a shooter can have a squib load in a semi-auto and have the gun chamber another round without shooter assistance. Anytime I've tried cat sneeze loads in a semi-auto, I usually end up with a manually activated single shot, even if the bullet exits the barrel. I suppose it's human nature to blame a catastrophic failure on anything other than yourself. If it's not a life or death situation, you always have time to examine the gun if it doesn't work properly. Seems like I've heard that at every shooting class I've ever taken.
Click to expand...
its simple.
squib load, failure to eject, shooter performs the ol Tap,Rack, Bang maneuver without inspecting his weapon for a squib.
All he knows is there was a jam, he cleared it, chambered a new round - and bang!
 
lots of pics from different makers if you google "squib load kaboom".
 
I had a squib load on my 9c using Freedom Munitions. Pressed the trigger and just heard a very distict pop with a small puff of smoke out of the chamber area. The gun did not cycle and I knew something was up. i dropped the magazine and ejected the round. Sure enough there was no bullet. Disassembled the gun and popped the stuck bullet out with a cleaning rod.
 
In the last 100k+ I have had two squibs. Neither cycled the action. Both were immediately obvious as an issue (felt recoil/noise etc) and both were stuck in the barrel (primer no powder likely culprit in both)
I stopped shooting immediately and always check the barrel.

I have also stopped with about 30 rounds that felt "off" for one reason or another that were not squibs but better safe than sorry.
 
Some use check or lock out dies on their progressive press. There is nothing short of a visual inspection of each case for powder before the bullet is seated that is better. The lock out die is probably best suited for the Dillion since the cartridge is charged away from the the operator. On the Hornady LNL and Lee Load master that powder charge is up front for the operator to easily see.

Another technique is use a powder that takes more than half the volume of the case. If there is no charge in the case its very easy to see, if there is a double charge it spills over the case or is so full a bullet can not be seated.

Bottom line use a lock out die, or visually inspect. A check die for small powder charges may not be reliable and you still need to look at it, better to look at the actual charge in the case before the bullet is seated as opposed to looking for the flag on the check die. YMMV.

A simple primer can in some cases drive the bullet far enough to allow a second round to chamber. It will not cycle the action on a semi auto.

I had a squib on a rifle load, one of my own reloads. No powder just primer. I have not had squib on many 10's of thousands of pistol loads but I have had head separation which can be messy at best.

When RO'ing at the range at least once a month during practice or matches someone has a pop no cycle so it happens and it happens frequently.

Stop drop the mag clear the pistol verify the bore is clear is the only safe thing to do.

Good luck
 
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