Accidentally got a MA Compliant Shield

doubleoevan · Mar 31, 2016

So I bought a 9mm Shield at a pawn shop in the state of Washington. When I got it home, I noticed the trigger was pretty heavy, but it wasn't until I went to the range and shot it that I really noticed. I emailed Smith & Wesson thinking I had a defective pistol, but they responded today that I managed to end up with an MA compliant model with the 10+ pound trigger pull.

They won't modify it and claimed if I modified it, it would void the warranty.

Long story short, I'd like to lighten the trigger pull anyway. I am aware of the Apex kit, but I don't want to drop that kind of money, especially since I'd want a gunsmith to install it for me. If my only goal is to lighten the trigger pull a few pounds, what is my cheapest option? What part is most responsible for the weight of the trigger? Can I simply install the Apex sear and accomplish what I'm trying to do? Or would it be possible to buy the factory parts and "convert" it to a regular (non MA compliant) pistol?

The main thing that concerns me about the entire Apex kit and doing it myself is the striker block and removing the rear sight.

Any advice would be appreciated.

CB3 · Mar 31, 2016

Given your requirements, I doubt you could lighten the pull enough without changing springs and parts.

Changing the sear would not help a lot in reducing the pull weight.

I suggest taking it back to the pawn shop and trading it for a regular Shield. If they are good guys and realize they are part of (even more so than you) the mistake, it may be just an exchange. If they want to discount the Mass compliant gun because it is used, that may still be better than jumping through the financial and technical hoops to get the trigger you want and deserve--and thought you were paying for.

If that fails, talk to S&W again and ask if they can exchange it for a regular Shield.

If that fails, sell it through Gunbroker for what it is, at a bit of a discount, then go buy a regular Shield.

While the pawn shop probably did not order in and sell a Mass compliant gun purposely, you also have some responsibility for checking it in the store carefully before you buy it. The model number would indicate it is Mass compliant, and the heavy trigger pull would lead you to ask to compare it to another gun. It is usually worth it to compare two or three of the same gun if available and choose the one that works best.

Yep, it's an expensive lesson to learn ($100-$150?). I made a similar mistake when I bought the only early Shield my local gun store had (not Mass compliant tho). Nothing to compare it to. The trigger sucked and I replaced it with a full Apex parts kit and polished everything. $125. I had a sight mover, and yes, the rear sight was a B to remove, but everything else was pretty straightforward in swapping parts and polishing.

Good luck.

TTSH · Mar 31, 2016

doubleoevan said:
Any advice would be appreciated.

This happens from time to time outside of the People's Republic of Taxachusetts. People are amazed at what we have to put up with for terrible, "moonbat-approved" triggers... and I don't blame them.

Most people just swallow hard, pay the price and do the Apex kit or some partial or gunsmith's own variation thereof. Here, we call it the Massachusetts Apex Tax.

To the best of my knowledge, you can't just order the free state parts from the mothership. They won't sell them to you.

Not all MA-compliant triggers are horribly, insanely bad. Some are just plain bad. There is a lot of unit-to-unit variation in these nasty S&W MA-compliant triggers. It sounds like you got a really bad one.

While both of my own MA-compliant Shields come in at "almost tolerable" (due to my patient and careful selection process), I once shot (or at least tried to shoot) a Shield .40 that had the absolute worst trigger ever possible. It was simply unusable.

So I know how bad they can be and I feel your pain.

Hapworth · Mar 31, 2016

I agree that the first and best option is to see if the pawn shop will take it back or trade.

After that, I'd actually send it to Apex since you're not sure about doing the parts work yourself; it will cost, but you can be certain of the parts and the install.

S&W legally cannot void warranty unless they can prove that the modifications cause whatever issue might require a warranty fix. Everyone should be aware of the Moss-Magnuson Warranty Act...

KSDeputy · Mar 31, 2016

Ask S&W to exchange it for a KS compliant model.

NCW Ray · Mar 31, 2016

Would it not be possible to change out the trigger components to NON-MA parts using FACTORY parts? I'm sure there are many people here who have replaced theirs with APEX and might have the factory ones laying around collecting dust.

Start a thread in the WTB subforum with what you need and see what you come up with.

doubleoevan · Mar 31, 2016

Thanks for the info. The gun was used when I bought it so I don't think Smith & Wesson would be open to any sort of exchange. I might try and return it or exchange it where I got it this weekend, but I'm not really confident that it will go my way. They didn't have a huge selection of handguns so if they don't take it back, then I doubt they'll have something I'd want to trade for without losing money. At that point, I'd just go with the Apex kit.

That's a good idea to post in the WTB section. I'll do that. Maybe someone has the factory parts laying around and would be willing to part with them for a decent price.

Does anyone know what parts are actually different between the MA compliant model and the regular one? If I managed to find the factory parts or end up buying the apex kit, is swapping out the striker block and spring going to make any difference in the trigger pull weight? I'm comfortable swapping out all the other parts and I could always pay a gunsmith later to swap out the striker block if I don't do it now.

doubleoevan · Mar 31, 2016

I posted something in the WTB section. Thanks for the tip.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/wanted...y-shield-trigger-kit-parts.html#post139023467

CB3 · Mar 31, 2016

I am not sure what parts are different in the MA compliant gun, but it may just be the trigger return spring. I believe this has been addressed on the forum previously and could be found with a search.

Changing the trigger return spring would immediately lighten your pull. This is inexpensive and not too difficult. Polishing all mating metal components reduces friction (makes pull smoother) and will reduce pull weight a little. S&W specs call for a 6.5# +/- pull weight. To go from 10# down 3.5# is very doable. These two mods would probably get you a 6# trigger.

Changing the sear, striker block and even the trigger itself will change the length of take up, travel to let off, and over travel, but changing springs has more impact on pull weight.

doubleoevan · Mar 31, 2016

Thanks. I tried searching initially, but didn't answer my question. I searched again now that I know more information and came up with this thread.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...?highlight=trigger+return+spring+ma+compliant

In reading through it, it appears that I have two options. It sounds like the sear spring and the trigger return spring are the parts that are different. So if I can find OEM or aftermarket springs, then that would be a cheaper/easier option than the entire Apex kit. But the above post also seems very clear in stating that simply installing the Apex sear (without changing the springs) would actually make a significant difference due to the rake of the OEM sear versus the Apex sear.

Due to this being my carry gun (assuming I keep it) keeping it simple appeals to me.

doubleoevan · Mar 31, 2016

One more question. If I choose to go the route of buying aftermarket springs (sear and trigger return), does anyone know which ones are compatible with the Shield?

I found this, but it states on the specs that it specifically won't fit models "adapted for sale in Massachusetts." Is that just a CYA? Or will it really not fit?

M&P SPRING KITS | Brownells (EDIT - This kit isn't for the Shield so it wouldn't work anyway)

I guess I can always email Apex and ask.

hexnut · Mar 31, 2016

I was in the gun shop today and held a M&P Shield 9mm, the one with the safety. They let me dry fire it and the trigger was about as good as my Ruger LC9s. It has a short pull and was not hard at all. I was surprised. I may have to get one.

Rule3 · Mar 31, 2016

Hmmmm?? What State to you actually live in??

Arlo39 · Mar 31, 2016

doubleoevan said:
Thanks for the info. The gun was used when I bought it so I don't think Smith & Wesson would be open to any sort of exchange. I might try and return it or exchange it where I got it this weekend, but I'm not really confident that it will go my way. They didn't have a huge selection of handguns so if they don't take it back, then I doubt they'll have something I'd want to trade for without losing money. At that point, I'd just go with the Apex kit.

That's a good idea to post in the WTB section. I'll do that. Maybe someone has the factory parts laying around and would be willing to part with them for a decent pric
Does anyone know what parts are actually different between the MA compliant model and the regular one? If I managed to find the factory parts or end up buying the apex kit, is swapping out the striker block and spring going to make any difference in the trigger pull weight? I'm comfortable swapping out all the other parts and I could always pay a gunsmith later to swap out the striker block if I don't do it now.

MA models have heavier trigger return spring, sear spring, striker block spring. The sear may have a different angle to it as well. The shield uses the M&P 45 sear and all,the other springs are interchangeable with the other M&P models.

doubleoevan · Mar 31, 2016

Rule3 said:
Hmmmm?? What State to you actually live in??

Are you asking me? I live in Washington State where I bought the Shield.

Rule3 · Mar 31, 2016

doubleoevan said:
Are you asking me? I live in Washington State where I bought the Shield.

Just curious if changing the trigger would be legal where you lived. Did you check the trigger when you bought it? But whatever, as others mentioned it may just be worth selling it rather then spend more money on it if you have to pay a gunsmith. If you can do it yourself then perhaps that's different. Good luck,

doubleoevan · Apr 1, 2016

Thanks again for everyone's comments.

I decided to try and return the Shield to the pawn shop today and surprisingly, they gave me a full refund! I was actually shocked. I explained the situation to the guy at the counter (who was there when I bought it in the first place) and he was quite understanding. I think they were more annoyed that they had bought a MA compliant Shield in the first place than annoyed at me for trying to return it. In any event, it was good news.

After leaving the pawn shop with cash in hand, I called a local Sportsmans Warehouse and they had a couple of Shields in stock which they didn't have a few weeks back. So I headed over and bought a brand new Shield for only a bit more money.

For those that stumble across this thread, here is some additional information I found in my search for a solution.

In asking Smith & Wesson about modifying the MA trigger, they said "We cannot alter compliant features of our firearms (such as your MA compliant 10 lb trigger pull) as the feature set will no longer match the sku that was registered with the ATF. It is possible that an aftermarket trigger kit will void your warranty. We do not know if any repair will be covered under warranty until the firearm is sent to us for evaluation."

I also asked Apex about the whether the Apex sear by itself would lighten the trigger pull without the rest of the kit. Their answer was "With Mass Compliant firearms it is more difficult to install just single parts as it would be on a regular firearm. With the Apex Sear you can lower the trigger pull weight by 2lbs but then you have the heaviest Trigger Return Spring and Sear Spring. The difference might not be as noticeable. We
always recommend installing the whole kit since everything has been designed to work together and give the best results possible."

doubleoevan · Apr 1, 2016

Rule3 said:
Just curious if changing the trigger would be legal where you lived. Did you check the trigger when you bought it? But whatever, as others mentioned it may just be worth selling it rather then spend more money on it if you have to pay a gunsmith. If you can do it yourself then perhaps that's different. Good luck,

So clearly modifying the trigger in WA state would be ok. I even read a couple of threads that indicated modifying it in MA wouldn't be illegal once you own it. The heavy trigger pull is simply for the initial sale and doesn't regulate what the owner does to it afterward. And I didn't check the trigger at the pawn shop when I bought it because they had a no dry firing policy. I'm sure I could have asked, but the issue of a MA compliant trigger wasn't even on my radar.

lefty_jake · Apr 1, 2016

The Massachusetts trigger weight requirements only apply at the time of sale. Every gunsmith in Mass does trigger jobs on S&W Shields and M&Ps. At some gun stores you can arrange to buy a gun and have an Apex kit installed before you take it home.

Of course issues related to the warranty are a separate issue. I actually don't think replacing springs and the sear would cause any real problems with warranty. But there are still a variety of legitimate reasons why leaving a firearm stock may be preferable. Overall it is a bind in Massachusetts whether you want a stock gun or one you can actually shoot.

Zoner · Apr 2, 2016

doubleoevan said:
Thanks again for everyone's comments.

I decided to try and return the Shield to the pawn shop today and surprisingly, they gave me a full refund! I was actually shocked. I explained the situation to the guy at the counter (who was there when I bought it in the first place) and he was quite understanding. I think they were more annoyed that they had bought a MA compliant Shield in the first place than annoyed at me for trying to return it. In any event, it was good news.

After leaving the pawn shop with cash in hand, I called a local Sportsmans Warehouse and they had a couple of Shields in stock which they didn't have a few weeks back. So I headed over and bought a brand new Shield for only a bit more money.

For those that stumble across this thread, here is some additional information I found in my search for a solution.

In asking Smith & Wesson about modifying the MA trigger, they said "We cannot alter compliant features of our firearms (such as your MA compliant 10 lb trigger pull) as the feature set will no longer match the sku that was registered with the ATF. It is possible that an aftermarket trigger kit will void your warranty. We do not know if any repair will be covered under warranty until the firearm is sent to us for evaluation."

I also asked Apex about the whether the Apex sear by itself would lighten the trigger pull without the rest of the kit. Their answer was "With Mass Compliant firearms it is more difficult to install just single parts as it would be on a regular firearm. With the Apex Sear you can lower the trigger pull weight by 2lbs but then you have the heaviest Trigger Return Spring and Sear Spring. The difference might not be as noticeable. We
always recommend installing the whole kit since everything has been designed to work together and give the best results possible."

Sure Apex recommends installing the whole "kit".... my Shield was about 7.5-8# factory.... just changed the sear(Apex) and now it's 4.5.......

Accidentally got a MA Compliant Shield

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