Shield makes the Cut...NYPD

[ultra45]

It appears that NYPD is approving the M&P Shield for off duty use. I was also told that the GLOCK 43 failed initial testing due to a broken spring issue. I'm waiting for a call back to confirm the latter, but it appears the Shield is a go.

I'm not sure if the guns will be available directly from the equipment section or available from S&W distributors. When the 5946 was authorized and before the equipment section had stock, you could only purchase the 5946 from a S&W LE distributor/dealer. At that time it was attributed to the mag disconnect issue. Once purchase on the outside you needed a trip to the range to have it inspected before carrying, also needed to qualify with it.

If any MOS has further please post..

[Fastbolt]

Nice. The Shield is a dandy, slim little single stack. No doubt it'll serve the men & women behind the shield there very well.

While I've only learned of 3 G43's coming through qual ranges among our folks, I've lost track of the number of new Shield 9's that keep appearing, among both active and retired folks. Lots of very pleased owners.

I keep thinking about picking one up, but than I look in my safe and see all those compact/subcompact 9's (let alone my J-frames and LCP's) and wonder if I'd really bother to carry one all that often.

[ladder13]

On the way to 2 million.

[goldglovex]

Spoke to someone at range this week. Glock 43 and MP shield both failed the Nypd testing. Got excited for the shield for a second, guess not anymore.

[SKELVIS]

It's a real shame both of those pistols failed.The NYPD takes perfectly good guns and ruins them by insisting they have a 13lb trigger pull.The sig 226 has the worst trigger pull out of the 3 approved guns as one instructor stated you can pull the trigger on Friday and the gun will fire on Monday.

[mlk18]

In my department they strongly preferred back up gun was the S&W 642, until the S&W Shield came out. Once it made the list pretty much everyone switched over to the Shield. After several qualifiers and courses all of mine continue to run strong. Surprises me that they didn't make the NYPD list unless of course the 8 round magazine scared department administration.

[BigCityChief]

Originally Posted by goldglovex

Spoke to someone at range this week. Glock 43 and MP shield both failed the Nypd testing. Got excited for the shield for a second, guess not anymore.

I'm very surprised - and disappointed for the cops. I own both the 9MM Shield and the Glock 43. Both have performed flawlessly through thousands of rounds. It would be interesting to see the testing parameters/metrics.

[robertrwalsh]

That is the problem when the PD insists its cops carry guns that are difficult to use well.

[paragain]

Love my Shield! Carry it every day.

[S. Kelly]

The Shield passed, G43 had issues, mag/follower related I believe.

[donmontalvo]

Originally Posted by S. Kelly

The Shield passed, G43 had issues, mag/follower related I believe.

I tried the Glock 43 and the Shield 9, and I went with the later.

Best concealed carry pistol I ever owned.

Now just need to get Los Angeles county to let us carry concealed.

Don

[ca survivor]

Glock was too late to the game with the 43, 1,000,000 shields out there
plus SA XDS and the Walther PPS now even a PPS M2

[goldglovex]

S. Kelly, any idea when it'll become officially authorized? Thanks!

[ultra45]

Originally Posted by goldglovex

Spoke to someone at range this week. Glock 43 and MP shield both failed the Nypd testing. Got excited for the shield for a second, guess not anymore.

Interesting, I haven't had time to call, allegedly all they were waiting for was Brattons sign off. In LA he approved a ton of handguns including 1911's.

[twelvegauge]

NYPD's range says the shield is NOT authorized and would not give any info as to if and when it will be. Spoke to them today.

[ultra45]

[QUhOTE=twelvegauge;138934615]NYPD's range says the shield is NOT authorized and would not give any info as to if and when it will be. Spoke to them today.[/QUOTE]

Same here, sad...

[goldglovex]

That makes it sound like its just not authorized YET. Let's see what happens.

[BigBoku]

Friendly FYI, The S&W Shield and Springfield XDs were both approved today.

[amcline82]

Don't really have anything to add the the OP. But I will agree that the 43 was too late to the ss game. And the compaicty and width miss missed the mark.

[goldglovex]

Shield AND xds. Great news. First change in decades?

[SKELVIS]

On the dept issued phones there is very short video of the 2 new off duty pistols it shows Bratton shooting one of them.

[ultra45]

CONFIRMED!!! Shield and XDs9....

[MTS Cop]

This has to be the first time in about 20 years they approved new off duty guns. The herd was getting pretty thin too. I heard the G43 was having feed issues on the last round. I'm sure Glock will work that out and it will be added soon.

Still keeping my 3914DAO though.

[Allan1929]

Will they be required to have a 12 pound trigger pull as they must on the DAO duty weapons?

[MTS Cop]

I would say yes. Unless the range somehow slipped one past the goalie. Which I would not bet money on.

[Allan1929]

I know many years ago the Kahr K9 was approved until the NYPD could not get the gun with a 12 pound trigger pull.

[Tomtom581]

The shield authorized will have a 10lb MA compliant trigger installed at the factory, not the range. I prepaid for mine at Atlantic tactical, the model that is authorized will be shipped from the factory in a month or two

[Philadelphia Patriot]

Do off duty revolvers have to be DAO?

[Tomtom581]

whatever ones are left before the switch to 9mm are DAO, i think the last SA/DA revolver that was authorized was the model 10

[DaveFur]

Anyone hired pre-1987, who qualified with any of the authorized DA/SA S&W J & K frame, Ruger Speed-Six and one Colt (the model that could tolerate +P ammo) off-duty revolvers, and never opted for an off-duty pistol is still carrying a DA/SA off-duty revolver.

Any post-1987 off-duty revolver would be a S&W M64, M640 and Ruger SP?/GP? 100.

When off-duty pistols were authorized circa 2000 revolvers could no longer be purchased for off-duty use.

[BigBoku]

The Colt model you are thinking of was the Detective which could digest a limited amount of +P. The pre 1987 was for those hired as NYPD only, the merge of the Housing and Transit Police into the NYPD grandfathered all 2" to 3" barrel DA/SA and DAO off duty revolvers up to the merge date of 1995 which included the Colt Detective,Ruger Speed Six, S&W models 10, 36, 60, 640 and 649. However all J frame Air weights and the Colt Commando that were previously authorized were de-authorized because they were not +P rated.

The post 87 off duty revolvers for NYPD were DAO Stainless 2 to 3" models 64, 640 and Ruger SPNY.

Off duty pistols were authorized for the July 1997 class subsequently all revolvers were de-authorized for all newly hired officers from that point on.

Any officer hired prior to 1997 can still buy, qualify with and carry one of the authorized DAO revolvers with a 2" or 3" barrel (Ruger SPNY and Speed Six, S&W 64 and 640).

[CQB60]

The Shield is a home run for S&W. Rightfully so. My experience detailed it to be a softer shorter than the G43 with better ergo's & handling characteristics. Makes for a superb EDC especially for summers in the south .

[BigBoku]

Originally Posted by Allan1929

Will they be required to have a 12 pound trigger pull as they must on the DAO duty weapons?

NYPD Authorized trigger pull is from 9 to 12 lbs, the shield comes in at just about 10lbs.

[DEPUTY346]

The problem is when you have bureaucratic officers who never worked the street making executive decisions on guns.

[10ring]

I see a lot of criticism of the NYPD trigger requirements and articles talking about how a 10-12 lb trigger is horrible, nearly impossible to shoot accurately, the cause for NYPD cops missing more often than hitting targets on the street, etc.

I have trouble getting my head around this. I am old enough that my first duty guns were double action revolvers and my off duty gun was also a double action revolver. We qualified and trained in double action mode with triggers that were routinely around 12 lb, sometimes as low as about 10 and sometimes (depending on the gun) even 13-14 lbs.

Several departments around the country even required that officers carry revolvers that were modified to shoot DAO, including Miami and NYPD (at least for awhile).

Has something changed that cops today cannot shoot such guns competently? I grant you it is a bit "harder" to accurately shoot a gun with a longer and heavier trigger, but it isn't that hard to do. Since transitioning to semi autos in the 90's I still have a preference for the DAO third gen smiths over my S&W Shield. I can shoot the Shield a little better, but not enough to matter in the real world and I feel "safer with a double action auto.

Frankly, if a department is unable to sufficiently train its officers that they can properly shoot a double action auto or revolver, I don't think I like the idea of those cops carrying Glocks, especially off duty. Way too many people, lockers, floors, car seats and other things are going to get shot unnecessarily.

I would actually like to try a Shield or M&P with that MA compliant trigger and see how bad it is. To me, it is much more a question of a smooth trigger rather than a light one.

[BigCityChief]

Originally Posted by 10ring

I see a lot of criticism of the NYPD trigger requirements and articles talking about how a 10-12 lb trigger is horrible, nearly impossible to shoot accurately, the cause for NYPD cops missing more often than hitting targets on the street, etc.



I have trouble getting my head around this. I am old enough that my first duty guns were double action revolvers and my off duty gun was also a double action revolver. We qualified and trained in double action mode with triggers that were routinely around 12 lb, sometimes as low as about 10 and sometimes (depending on the gun) even 13-14 lbs.



Several departments around the country even required that officers carry revolvers that were modified to shoot DAO, including Miami and NYPD (at least for awhile).



Has something changed that cops today cannot shoot such guns competently? I grant you it is a bit "harder" to accurately shoot a gun with a longer and heavier trigger, but it isn't that hard to do. Since transitioning to semi autos in the 90's I still have a preference for the DAO third gen smiths over my S&W Shield. I can shoot the Shield a little better, but not enough to matter in the real world and I feel "safer with a double action auto.



Frankly, if a department is unable to sufficiently train its officers that they can properly shoot a double action auto or revolver, I don't think I like the idea of those cops carrying Glocks, especially off duty. Way too many people, lockers, floors, car seats and other things are going to get shot unnecessarily.



I would actually like to try a Shield or M&P with that MA compliant trigger and see how bad it is. To me, it is much more a question of a smooth trigger rather than a light one.

I'm with you. Much of the difficulty comes, I think, from the fact that many police officers, irrespective of agency, are casual gun owners and rarely shoot outside their training cycle. An agency the size of the NYPD requires no less than 70,000 training days annually to cycle its in-service officers through its training qualification course. Like driving and many other mechanical skills, shooting skills erode if not practiced regularly. I love the triggers on my 5946 and 3953TSW and shoot well with them because I shoot often.

[kramden]

The real problem is that DeBlasio was put in charge of picking the gun and he insisted that any make was ok as long as they didn't have triggers.

[BigCityChief]

Originally Posted by DEPUTY346

The problem is when you have bureaucratic officers who never worked the street making executive decisions on guns.

In NYC, the City's Corporation Counsel often made those decisions.

[Philadelphia Patriot]

Originally Posted by 10ring

I see a lot of criticism of the NYPD trigger requirements and articles talking about how a 10-12 lb trigger is horrible, nearly impossible to shoot accurately, the cause for NYPD cops missing more often than hitting targets on the street, etc.

I have trouble getting my head around this. I am old enough that my first duty guns were double action revolvers and my off duty gun was also a double action revolver. We qualified and trained in double action mode with triggers that were routinely around 12 lb, sometimes as low as about 10 and sometimes (depending on the gun) even 13-14 lbs.

Several departments around the country even required that officers carry revolvers that were modified to shoot DAO, including Miami and NYPD (at least for awhile).

Has something changed that cops today cannot shoot such guns competently? I grant you it is a bit "harder" to accurately shoot a gun with a longer and heavier trigger, but it isn't that hard to do. Since transitioning to semi autos in the 90's I still have a preference for the DAO third gen smiths over my S&W Shield. I can shoot the Shield a little better, but not enough to matter in the real world and I feel "safer with a double action auto.

Frankly, if a department is unable to sufficiently train its officers that they can properly shoot a double action auto or revolver, I don't think I like the idea of those cops carrying Glocks, especially off duty. Way too many people, lockers, floors, car seats and other things are going to get shot unnecessarily.

I would actually like to try a Shield or M&P with that MA compliant trigger and see how bad it is. To me, it is much more a question of a smooth trigger rather than a light one.

You're right, if it isn't broke then don't fix it. I'm going to write to our police commissioner to bring back the 1969 Dodge Monaco.