Hi everyone. I'm going to get a new 9c after having to sell my other one a couple years ago. I don't plan on doing any upgrades to the pistol other than night sights. I'm curious----is the trigger improved in the newest models? I'm also wondering if these guns can shoot after being submerged. I read somewhere that they can't, but if not, then why?
Thanks for any input you have!

The torture test videos I saw, said the striker was hydro locked (water got into the striker channel) and it took a couple of tries before it would fire.

both videos were a guy in his backyard with a bucket of water. Not exactly scientific, but then again, if you ever needed it, I guess it wouldn't be in a lab either.

I think they called it the gauntlet, and the second one was "in response to the gauntlet" (or something similar) if you want to search for them on youtube.

__________________
Something really smart

Thanks! I hike a lot near rivers and streams, and also paddle a bit. It's not inconceivable that my gun could get wet. I'll check out those videos.

The M&P did not do well in that test.

trigger still sucks...plan on Apex.

I just picked up a 2015 made 9c in FDE.
It will get the full Apex kit ASAP.
Not sure on the sights, probably stick with Ameriglo.

It joins the family of a 4.25" and a 5" CORE...all 9mm

I'm no expert, so I'll probably just learn the trigger as is. I don't have the money to do upgrades---other than the sights.
You like Ameriglo better than Trijicon HD?
I love the FDE, but I'm wondering how it will handle dirt. That might not stop me from getting one, though!

I am not sure what is more important, a good trigger or good sights. I do them both at the same time....You gotta remove the rear sight on any non CORE to do the Apex kit, so think about that .

Replacing the sights, might as well only do it once. Cant see putting it on only to take it off a few weeks later...like I said, just my preference.

As for which sights.....the Ameriglos are less than $100....the HDs.....LOL, $160-ish....a bit less if you shop around.

I am not sure if they are worth that much. My Dawson fiber Optic was $80...with a blacked out rear.

Installing those tonight. They are going on the Competition 5".

I will make my mind up as to what is going on the new FDE after I play with these FO. I really like the Ameriglo set. WAY better than OEM.

Ask yourself what you NEED before pulling the CC out.

There are some very good arguments on self defense and sights/ lights. Both the F.O. people and the tritium guys make it even harder to make a decision.
F.O. needs some light to "pop out"....the Tritium dont.
Street lights will make the FO more visible.

I suggest you look at how much do you want to spend and if you want a light, or have a light.

To me it is a bit of a personal choice, but you will have a whole bunch of opinions and a decent bit of facts.

Sorry if I made it worse

Wet doesn't bother them but if you submerge it, unload it and cycle the slide and pull the trigger a couple of times, this will eliminate the hydro lock condition. I saw a U Tube video where one was fired submerged in a pool (remote trigger string) and it fired and cycled a couple of times , then it wouldn't cycle anymore, they found that the barrel had bulged. (note to self, don't shoot your M&P under water)

need to shoot underwater, why? maybe a speargun will do better. Other than attract views on youtube there is no purpose in that kind of stuff.

__________________
M&P 9, Shield9.

Wet and submerged are two completely different things.

If you fall in the river, just shake the gun out and you'll be fine.

Firing any gun under water is a bad idea. The water in the barrel can act like an obstruction. This can bulge or destroy any barrel.

Why people do this is beyond me. There is no scenario where firing a gun under water is a good or useful idea.

__________________
Freedom isn't free.

When you shake the water out, pull the slide back a bit, this breaks the suction holding water in the barrel. (lesson learned during my vacation in SE Asia) Most people who make U Tube videos could care less about good or useful.

I want a 9c but the trigger is holding me back. Currently have Ruger SR9c and the trigger is excellent. Wish they'd do a Performance Center 9c, optics ready....

I will ask this....just out of curiosity.

a 9c is running about $450 -ish.
Apex is about 150- ish
$600 plus taxes....say $650.

Where else are you going to get a 12 rnd compact with a fantastic trigger and really good ergos?

You will be looking at $700 plus for HK, CZ, and similar, or have to move up to the $800 range for something else.

So, when you really get down to it, you will save maybe $50 or more on a very good ergo'ed, reliable, and comfie sidearm.

Thats the way I looked at it.

I will give my $ breakdown:
5'CORE--base $700 OTD, $165 Apex Kit, $80 sights, $275 Vortex Red Dot.
$1220 for a damned fine Competiotion 9mm.
Still gotta do the mag well, mag ext., Compesator with threaded BBL....those are about $550 total.
About $1800 on a race gun. Cheaper than an STI and works just as good.

FS 9: $460 OTD, Ameriglos $90, Apex kit $165
$715 for a damned good 17rd EDC.

9c ( just bought) $480 OTD, not sure on the sights, but will call it $100, $165 Apex kit.
about the same.....$700 for a damned near perfect EDC.

What sidearms will be that smooth for $700?

Go from there

You can get a SR9c Ruger for around $420. It's a great shooting gun (I've shot the M&P 9c and the trigger is vastly superior, it doesn't need anything!). The only thing I've done to mine is added night sites. I carry it as often as I carry my Shield and find it just as comfortable. Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer a M&P and if they do a Performance Center that doesn't automatically need a trigger upgrade, I'm buying one! I prefer the 9c platform for EDC. Much better shooter, higher capacity and I can shoot HST 147 gr +P.

You could say that and for what they were testing I guess I;d have to agree.

Problem is what they were testing has extremely little to no value to me.

I don't want an ugly gun, that feels awful, and I don't shoot well, even if it can fire full of moon dust on the surface of the sun.

I'll take a good looking (IMHO), perfect feeling (to me)gun that I can shoot as well if not better than any other gun I've tried, as long as it is reliable under the conditions I will use or may use it in.

I watched those videos and thought, cool, if it shot at all during that nonsense, I'll have no problem, with a little dust, or if I get caught in the rain, or sprayed with water on the boat or something.

__________________
Something really smart

Are you saying the Ruger or the M&P has the superior trigger?

Thanks guys. Now that I understand that just shaking out the gun, cycling the slide a few times, etc won't stop it from firing after being submerged, I'm good with it. As a middle-aged female, I don't see myself having to do Seal stuff and shoot underwater, but I guess you never know! As for the trigger, I would have to pay someone to do it, and honestly my other 9c's felt okay to me. Maybe later when I get more cash.
I haven't entirely ruled out a Glock 19, but I think the reach will be too long, although learnable with practice. I'm talking about the trigger reach on a draw, not just standing at the range.
Mainly, I want a stock gun that will fun to shoot, hit the target, and always fire. I bought a Shield once, tried it, hated it. I'll take the 9c any day.

Have to disagree with your "good as an STI. I shot a M&P Core in USPSA open for 2 years, I cracked 2 slides and Smith won't sell me a slide. They said they would warranty it, that was in June of this year, guess what, I still don't have any gun, for months they said that they had to build it, then Fedex lost it in Memphis on Oct 14th, they are still looking for it, I asked Smith for a refund (since I'm going to sell the replacement if it ever arrives). I ended up buying an STI a few months back, new learning curve but not any comparison. It's more expensive, but when you have to buy a pistol every year because the slides cracked and you can't buy one, that's no deal. STI has a lifetime warranty and their turn around time on slides is less than a month. Pictures below are my 3 open guns in chronological order

Attached Images

	SL holster 1.jpg (100.3 KB, 44 views)
	CC 3.JPG (58.9 KB, 41 views)
	Trubor 7.JPG (60.1 KB, 40 views)
	IMG_20161001_085828_179 (Medium).jpg (76.0 KB, 39 views)

Ruger SR9c, by a good margin.

I bought my new M&P 9c in 2016 before I read all of the negative stuff about the trigger. I'm glad that I did because it must have been the older pistols that had the problems. The trigger felt good from the beginning: no grittiness, clear and crisp break with a quick reset. The pull felt high while dry-firing but felt less at the range. Now, after about 1000 rounds fired, the pull feels like it is reduced and quite comfortable. I'm extremely happy with mine.
The only problem I've had is ejection to my face. It is improving slowly. I replaced the ejector with the APEX FRE (Failure Resistant Ejector) with no change in ejection trajectory from the OEM ejector; again, it is improving.
It has fired every kind of ammo (all brass) with no failures of any kind. I carry it with the 12-round magazines and I use the full-size 17-round magazine with the XGrip at the range.

Unless you're taking the pistol into combat, I don't see the need to worry a lot about firing it underwater, dragging it behind a truck, dropping it from the roof of a house, etc.etc....

The M&P pistols are great, and my advice is to just buy the thing and shoot the heck out of it. While those torture tests are fun to watch, they are of limited practical value.

I'm going to get one for sure---just checking around for the best local price. I never had BTF problems with my other two---actually, I had no problems at all with them!
My favorite holster was the UGB Regulator. Great low-profile, low-ride OWB holster.

Check Bud's online. That will give you a price to start with, and you can compare local prices to your baseline. Bear in mind, though, that if you order from Bud's, your FFL wil charge $20-$30 to accept shipment for you.

MAC torture tests...M&P theory? - AR15.COM

Military arms channel has stated that they used an old m&p without the maritime cups. Their test should be redone. There are lots of videos of guys shooting m&ps underwater and from water.

Yes, you definitely have to do the math. At the cheapest store here, the 9c's are $469 and the Glock 19 is $609, but the Glock has three mags. Add a 17 round mag to the price of the M&P, you're about even. Bud's has the 9c for $449+FFL, so there's really no reason not to buy one locally.

Maybe you mistyped. But are you saying the M&P 17rd mags make up the difference from a 469 dollar 9c to the 609 G19? Where exactly are you buying mags? sheesh.

Ha ha! Good catch! I wrote this while I was at work and totally distracted. Why the hell is a G19 $150 more dollars than an M&P, anyway??

How is accuracy with the new 9 compacts?

It's not. The G19 can be had for $500 if you look. $550 on any day at a store around here and on line.

__________________
Freedom isn't free.

I got my new 9c last summer and was happy w/ the trigger as it came. I actually heavied it up some w/ a Apex duty/carry spring because it is my carry gun. While Apex has great products, there are way to make the trigger better if you feel the need for nearly no money.
S&W M&P Trigger Job