I've been wanting to try out a M&P40 compact for possible purchase for concealed carry (never shot a compact before), so I went to a local range that listed it on their website as available for rental. When I got there, they said I could not rent any firearm because I did not meet their requirements. They told me that they require one of the following in order to rent:

1. Bring a second person with me to the range. OR ...
2. Bring one of my own firearms to the range with me.

When I asked why the rules, they told me because of suicides. I guess there have been too many depressed individuals who show up to a gun range, rent a pistol, and take their own life! I have rented pistols at a different range near me without these requirements, so I was a bit surprised at their rules. Do any of the ranges near you enforce rules like this to prevent suicides?

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MP40FS,MP40C,MP22
NRA,ISRA

I’ve never come across this rule, but my philosophy is their range, their rules. If someone doesn’t like it, they can go somewhere else. I wouldn’t have a problem since I always bring a few of my pistols along. No one wants to have a suicide happen in their place of business, and it can bring bad publicity that can take a while to recover from.

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Southern Comfort
Retired USAF

One of the few public ranges in Massachusetts started requiring atleast one person in a party to hold a LTC because of a suicide. Before i got my LTC i went to a range in New Hampshire since i had no where else to go. The range had me call someone to confirm that i was not mentally ill or depressed.

It sucks that a range will do what happened to you, you are there to test out a potentially new handgun. But the range does not want blood on their hands.

The range I go to has the same rule.

No. Give them an ID, watch a video the first time and tell them what gun I want to use. Been a while but it seems like there was a form telling them I could legally possess a firearm and I suppose it may have included something about not feeling suicidal but I don't recall now.

I used the option to rent multiple guns for a whopping $2 more and was able to compare the M&P to a Glock.

Bringing your own gun to prevent suicide with their gun? I suppose the theory is you aren't a person who can't get one looking for a source to end it all with. Bringing your own to sit on the bench while silly shouldn't be a real problem I suppose, if you know in advance.

Although coming in to try and buy your first gun would make it more difficult if you don't have somebody who is into shooting looking to spend some fun time at the range/gun shop.

Supposedly there are some ranges across the country doing this because of suicides. They don't have a gun then this is the way to go for it I guess. Can you imagine the relatives of a suicide shooter could even file charges against the gun shop that rented the gun.
Mental illness has been a problem for gun rights and it could become even more of a problem.

My LGS range (small town of less than 20,000) had a negligent discharge which was never officially called a suicide, but the aftermath investigation revealed facts that would lead a reasonable person to believe that suicide was a reasonable possibility. The owner, a close friend of mine, did not change his rules, which were fairly liberal to begin with (no rifle calibers, be sober). Your experience seems like a solution in search of a problem . . .

Edit: He doesn't rent guns, but if you want to shoot something used that's in the case, have at it, if you buy the ammo. The above incident was with the victim's pistol, a 1911 style . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

That didn't help the American Sniper guy. What can a person do? You set up like you are getting ready to shoot, put the gun to your head and pull the trigger. Is somebody standing behind you to grab the gun if you do anything dangerous? Anyway, all that aside I can kind of see their point. Maybe somebody is a LITTLE less likely to off themselves in front of a friend.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

When I was in the SF Bay Area in 2014, the range near my hotel had the same rules for the same reasons. Liability, paperwork, and they would probably lose the gun while it occupies the evidence storage area at the local police department. Can't say I blame them for having these rules.

Really?! Someone's going to go to the trouble of visiting a gun range, and jump through the hoops that entails, just to commit suicide? There's an infinite number of easier and more convenient ways to do it. Sounds like an incredible what-if scenario contrived by an anti-gun insurance company to create a burden for the gun-business owner.

I agree with Muss Muggins...sounds like a solution in search of a problem.

Local indoor gunshop with a range had a guy just last
year commit suicide on their range.
I don't shoot at indoor ranges because of the guy that
might be standing next to me with a loaded gun.
Fortunately i have two friends with farms who have given me permission
to shoot there anytime i like.

BTW............... The M&P 40C is my everyday carry.
Also my first compact and i love it.



Chuck

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They hold no Quarter

Guy came into local range, bought target, rented handgun, 50 rounds of ammo, hearing protection. Nice group of 49 rounds in target, #50 passed through his head, but stopped in roof. Hand gun was not scratched.

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S&WHF 366

That wasn't a suicide.

The rules sounded odd, until the explanation was given. From the business perspective, makes perfect sense to me.

Many of the ranges here do this.

I've not personally seen a rule like this, but they are common, and not a bad idea, IMO.

Yeah, happened to me in Denver, too. A suicide actually occurred at the range I visited.

The gun range I used to use when I lived in Orlando had 2 suicides. One was a murder-suicide,a man brought his mentally unstable mother to the range and it ended badly for both of them. They stopped renting guns to non-members as a result. It's a shame, but the owners of these stores have to protect their livelihoods.
Prior to that my son and I would go there and rent something different each time.

My preferred range has similar policies. They did have a suicide with a range-owned rental gun about two years ago. There were lawsuits from the idiot's family, loss of the gun to the legal system, hazmat cleanup requirements, just for a few black holes for our $$$$. As a result our range fees are higher just for higher insurance costs, not to mention the other bills.

The local ranges have similar rules. One of the local ranges has been the site of at least two rental suicides.

I am not aware of that policy at the range i go to here (doesnt rent guns), or at the one i went to in SC when i lived there (PSA's location which did rent). I normally go by myself, but always take my own handguns with me.
I'm assuming this sort of policy is liability based, but i wouldn't have a problem if that's what the owner wanted or needed to do. But to be honest, it may prevent something happening at the range, but doesnt mean it will prevent the act from happening later somewhere else.

The ranges I visit in NJ all have this same rule. It helps but doesn't completely eliminate the problem. The most recent involved two brothers who met the requirement but one decided to end his life, can't imagine how the survivor feels and how he will live with that. There were 7 in NJ last year.
Women don't need a companion to rent in most ranges here.
NJ is talking about modifying the law that allows temporary transfer of ownership of a gun to allow for rentals, if that passes it will be the end of rentals.

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Back to back World War Champs.

I'm a member of a small club out a ways in the boonies of upstate NY. Being retired we (wife) we go to the heated indoor range and shoot for a couple hours twice a week. We have never had to share the range with anyone during the 9-3 hours of the work week! Its easy to see as the range has a sign in/out sheet

They have a rule that there must be 2 people at all times to use the indoor range. The 2ed person does not have to shoot, not even be a member but just be there. They also have a phone extension in the vestibule of the range that will do local calls. Range is key carded!

The reason there, is no one might show up at the club for a couple days so its protection for the shooters. You car cannot be seen from the road if you park to use indoors. On the outside ranges you and you vehicle can be seen from the road!

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

I think the theory is not so much that a second person could stop it, but more of a character reference. A suicidal/depressed person hopefully has a hard time finding somebody they know who will do this for them.

Besides all the worldly concerns of liability, clean-up, etc., nobody wants to see anybody die.

I'm sure he meant "mental illness" was involved in his death. Regardless of who pulled the trigger.

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CERAKOTE Svcs.
Class 01 FFL

I would imagine that if nobody shows up for days at a time, then rentals aren't a thing there.

I'm a member of a pistol club, and often you end up alone there shooting. But then again, cameras everywhere and no rentals, so I doubt there's ever been a suicide there.

I think I remember seeing this on the new, they even had video of it right?

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I think it is a good policy for gun ranges to have rental restrictions. It does not help our cause if non firearm owning suicidal people use our sport/hobby/second amendment right, to kill themselves. If they don't own a firearm and have to rent one to kill themselves they are not part of our culture just using us. Let them chain themselves to a old growth tree about to be cut down, or take up some other cause that will get them killed. It does none of us any good when there is a suicide at a gun range, just another feather in the anti-gun groups cap.

Very interesting thread. I would have never expected there was this much suicide activity at a range. I shoot at a NSSF 5 Star range - top of the line place. The only rental rule they have is you have to use their ammo, not yours.

I have never had my friends ask about suicides but I have had them ask about someone going crazy and spraying rounds into everyone.



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GOA, SAF, NRA

Legs near me only rents to members. They do not allow you to rent a gun the same day you become a member. Have had a couple of incidence iirc.

I also seem to a recall an incident similar that happened at a shop that didn't even have a range a few years back. I'm recalling from memory, but I believe the story went that a very typical/average looking middle aged woman went into a shop, asked to see a specific pistol (a tip up Beretta .32, if memory serves), showed ID and the whole 9 yards beforehand even. In the article to clerk remembered her seeming very knowledgable and educated about what she wanted, even something along the lines of a comment about the pistol being a good choice for a petite woman with small hands for SD, especially without the need to rack the slide. He looked away to answer someone's question, never left the counter or her, but turned back and she'd clicked the barrel down with a single FMJ round she'd brought in her shirt pocket and fired it through her chin before he could react. Can't recall what happened to the shop, but I remember the owner saying it was the most disturbingly pre-meditated thing he'd ever seen, and that was after years in the service. I believe it turned out she had just lost her child to a death of some sort and had been researching exactly how to do it for some days before.

Seems like as much as safety measures are put into place, truly ill/desperate people will always find a way, sadly.

Several ranges in my area adhere to the same policy.

I am a little curious here, don't you normally bring another gun or 2 to shoot when you go? I would of at least had my range bag with glasses, ear protection, targets etc... not that would of did any good because of rule #2

I could but didn't since I went to compare an M&P9c to a Glock19. The gun shop/range is about an hour away from me so I got lucky that they did not have such a rule. But had I known I certainly could have and would have brought a revolver to sit.

The private rifle club I belong to is 5 minutes away from me but it does not include a gun store for sales or rentals. And on a week day during the Winter the indoor range is used but there is usually one or less other members present. Fortunately we do not have a buddy system rule so I can go as I like without someone else.

The rental range is always busy and on the weekend...scary busy. I stopped in on a Saturday and there was no way I wanted to shoot on that day. Came back during the week. As popular as that place seems to be they could probably double their space and still be busy. They do the membership thing too but it isn't practical for me and really I prefer my club since most of my more enjoyable shooting is outside ringing steel or benchrest shooting with a .22 rifle...in a little warmer weather that is.

Interesting that this subject came up. I've commented to several friends that I'm surprised in the 18 years I've been a member of a local outdoor shooting range that no one has taken their life. Besides my own recreational shooting, I've been active as a board member and RSO. We have 1,000 members, as well as open to the public one day a week.

We DID have a suicide in one of the local gun shops, similar to the lady described above. Someone with a .40 S&W cartridge went in, asked to see a pistol, & did himself in when the clerk turned his back.

We also have suicides annually in the forest, which surrounds our small town. Usually people who are critically ill & don't want to extend what's left with their life in misery.

Hank M.

I'm a member at one local range. Since I am, there's no requirement to bring a buddy or a handgun if I solely want to rent one.

For other ranges, I bring a "token" gun with me.

A 10 bay indoor shooting range here in Myrtle Beach had a man come in, rent a 45 auto, bought 2 boxes of ammo, and went in to shoot. Shot the first box, opened the second box, loaded the gun, and killed himself. They found a note at his home almost 50 miles away. The range had been open for 30 years. It is now closed.

Not this time. I did grab my eyes and ears before leaving the house on Friday morning on my way to work. I had planned to stop by the range and try out the M&P40c after work. I wasn't planning to shoot anything else. It was my first time visiting this particular range, it is fairly new and has only been open since the middle of last year. The range's website doesn't say anything about these particular rules regarding rentals, so I showed up unprepared. Now I know.

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MP40FS,MP40C,MP22
NRA,ISRA

This incident happened several years ago and I don't know if there was a video or not. if so it was never shown on the local news.

This is the one I'm talking about

Woman Kills Son, Self at Gun Range - YouTube

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The senior NRA instructor at our local range sent a video around that's interesting. Shows a woman with a handgun and a coach or instructor just off her left shoulder. She shoots one round down range, immediately turns the pistol around and shoots herself in the chest. Round passes through her and hits the coach, who immediately goes down writhing in pain. She doesn't even stagger, walks to the rear of the lane and sits down.

This is particularly disturbing as the instructor is in the same position we take when coaching shooters in the Basic Pistol Class. The instructor had no time to react.

Gotcha! Would of been nice if they posted the rules like you stated

Indoor range suicide today in Spring Lake, NC...just outside of Fayetteville, NC. Sad.

Well, I guess I stand corrected. Never would have thunk it.

That's the incident I referred to.

These suicides happen a LOT more than some may think. Walk into a carpeted indoor range and look at the carpeting. That's called a clue. Unless it somehow leaks out most indoor ranges try to say nothing about these incidents for a whole host of reasons. I was quite surprised years ago when a few of my friends that worked at/for indoor ranges started telling me about the numbers of suicides they have encountered. Simply put, there isn't much you can do to stop a person bent on committing suicide. Families may try to sue an indoor range facility, but a decent lawyer will try to talk them out of doing something that dumb. The suit will open up all sorts of doors the family may not want to go through.

Rick

Really makes me appreciate my backyard boonies type range. Open 24/7, great ventilation but no rentals. Got to use my own guns. No buddies required. Just need to make sure the deer are not behind the targets. Thank God I'm a country boy.
Peace,
Gordon

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better have that checked

I figured, sounded very similar when u were describing it

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