Shield 9 sometimes fails to fire, I can see the round in the chamber, but LCI not up

mistermojorizin · Jul 28, 2017

This is hard to explain, but a couple times now I had a fail to fire (with just fmj ball ammo that normally works fine), and it looks like the round isn't chambered because the LCI doesn't come up like usual, but I can see through the slit on the side that it is chambered.

What could be going on here? Like where could the round be going?

Saudade · Jul 29, 2017

Are you in CA? Are you feeding the round in from the magazine?

rwsmith · Jul 29, 2017

It sounds like two problems...

First - Failure to Fire

Second - loaded chamber indicator is not indicating a chambered round, though there is a chambered round.

IS the slide going completely into battery? A Shield won't fire if the slide is not completely closed with a bullet in the chamber.

Ammo CAN do this, if it's a little out of spec the bullet can catch on the lands and prevent from going into full battery.

Though the round is in the chamber, it doesn't mean that the round is completely chambered. The loaded chamber indicator not working tells me something is wrong with the chambering.

Take your barrel out of the gun and 'plunk' test the rounds into the chamber. The round should drop completely in, clicking the mouth of the cartiridge to the step in the chamber. Then when you turn the barrel over, it should fall out. If it doesn't do this, the ammo isn't chambering right. I was having terrific trouble making rounds that would fire in all of my guns and got S&W to replace the barrel on the Shield because the chambers were SO short.

Rastoff · Jul 29, 2017

How old is the gun? How many rounds?

Was it only once or has this happened many times?

A picture would help.

Funflyer · Jul 29, 2017

Rastoff said:
How old is the gun? How many rounds?

Was it only once or has this happened many times?

A picture would help.

That was my first thought also. It needs to be fired several hundred more times and also with some hot ammo.

Looks like the OP recently bought the Shield, from his first post on 19 July.

Cheapskait · Jul 29, 2017

As the OP stated that the LCI wasn't activating (I don't have one with the LCI but I think I know how they work), sounds like the cartridge base isn't flush up against the breech face, so maybe the extractor isn't slipping over the rim and is keeping the slide out of battery. I don't know how experienced the OP is, he might not notice whether the slide is fully forward or not.

As it's presumably a new gun, I could see how some machining crud could get into the extractor slot at the factory and cause the extractor not pivot the way it's supposed to.

He can check this by hand cycling some of the offending cartridges at home.

mistermojorizin · Jul 29, 2017

Thanks all for the responses. I'll try to incorporate some of the suggestions so far.

Saudade said:
Are you in CA? Are you feeding the round in from the magazine?

It is the CA model with LCI. Rounds are being fed only from mag.

Rastoff said:
How old is the gun? How many rounds?

Was it only once or has this happened many times?

A picture would help.

Sorry, didn't get pics. It's a relatively new gun, but I've already got close to 1000 rounds through it.

This happened only twice. 1 time with a Federal FMJ round. I tried to load that specific round again from a different mag and by manually slingshotting the slide and that round would not chamber properly at all.

2nd time, happened yesterday. I was trying some new ammo in it. Blazer FMJ Aluminum that was $8 a box online. I tried loading that round in a different mag and it chambered and fired properly.

Funflyer said:
That was my first thought also. It needs to be fired several hundred more times and also with some hot ammo.

Looks like the OP recently bought the Shield, from his first post on 19 July.

That's some nice detective work! Yes, it's a new gun, but I do have close to 1000 rounds through it. As to hottness, they've been mostly Federal FMJ, MagTech, Federal HST, WWB JHP 147gr, and Train and Defend JHP 147gr. Yesterday, I tried some Aguila FMJ and Blazer FMJ.

Cheapskait said:
As the OP stated that the LCI wasn't activating (I don't have one with the LCI but I think I know how they work), sounds like the cartridge base isn't flush up against the breech face, so maybe the extractor isn't slipping over the rim and is keeping the slide out of battery. I don't know how experienced the OP is, he might not notice whether the slide is fully forward or not.

As it's presumably a new gun, I could see how some machining crud could get into the extractor slot at the factory and cause the extractor not pivot the way it's supposed to.

He can check this by hand cycling some of the offending cartridges at home.

Not super experienced, but I'm learning. I had heard of the slide not going forward on Shields and so I did try to pay attention and I'm pretty sure it was all the way forward.

New gun, but I shoot a few times a week approx 150 rounds each time, and I clean and lube meticulously after every range trip. I get a toothpick with some solvent to clean out crud under the extractor. Also, gun was cleaned and lubed prior to shooting it the first time.

mistermojorizin · Jul 29, 2017

rwsmith said:
First - Failure to Fire

Second - loaded chamber indicator is not indicating a chambered round, though there is a chambered round.

IS the slide going completely into battery? A Shield won't fire if the slide is not completely closed with a bullet in the chamber.

Ammo CAN do this, if it's a little out of spec the bullet can catch on the lands and prevent from going into full battery.

Though the round is in the chamber, it doesn't mean that the round is completely chambered. The loaded chamber indicator not working tells me something is wrong with the chambering.

Take your barrel out of the gun and 'plunk' test the rounds into the chamber. The round should drop completely in, clicking the mouth of the cartiridge to the step in the chamber. Then when you turn the barrel over, it should fall out. If it doesn't do this, the ammo isn't chambering right. I was having terrific trouble making rounds that would fire in all of my guns and got S&W to replace the barrel on the Shield because the chambers were SO short.

Thanks for this reply. You may be onto something and I'll have to check it out. When you mention that the chamber was short, do you mean that when you would plunk the cartridge in, it would not go in far enough into the chamber?

Dad_Roman · Jul 29, 2017

mistermojorizin said:
Thanks for this reply. You may be onto something and I'll have to check it out. When you mention that the chamber was short, do you mean that when you would plunk the cartridge in, it would not go in far enough into the chamber?

Yes. If the chamber itself was in doubt then every round would "not go in" all the way. For the most part there should be a few thou. of clearance on a round.

Sounds like the ammo is could be subjective here, your talkin bout 2 rounds out of 1000.

Several guys here will "plunk test" every round before going to the range. Not to uncommon to have a bad +/- round every box or two

KELSW · Jul 29, 2017

I had a bad cartridge 9mm the bullet was just off enough it would not chamber . Not sure what brand but was a major one . So far the only one knock on wood . That was with my Shield .

Dad_Roman · Jul 29, 2017

KELSW said:
I had a bad cartridge 9mm the bullet was just off enough it would not chamber . Not sure what brand but was a major one . So far the only one knock on wood . That was with my Shield .

Ive had a few but thats out of about 3K rounds. I had a buddy get a box of that Max brand ammo with aluminum case and to look across the new box showed OAL to be off as much as 1/8" (maybe more) and there was a dozen or more of those in that one box. Thats the only box of ANYTHING Ive ever seen like that. Kinda blew my mind.

I dont plunk my ammo before shooting and I often wonder how many rounds are "off" the slightest bit but the force of the action returning to battery just jams it home to the promised land

rwsmith · Jul 29, 2017

yeah...

mistermojorizin said:
Thanks for this reply. You may be onto something and I'll have to check it out. When you mention that the chamber was short, do you mean that when you would plunk the cartridge in, it would not go in far enough into the chamber?

Yes, the nose or shoulder of the bullet would hit the lands and not plunk all the way in. It takes only a little. When I tried to bump the back of the slide they REALLY got stuck and I had to force the slide open. Compact 9mms seem to be notorious for short chambers. i have many 9mms and trying to get reloaded ammo to be reliable in each one was a trick. It doesn't help that I experiment with a wide variety of bullets. Took me a long time to get it to work in all the guns. I have several compacts, a few full size and a carbine, all very different in their workings. It seems if I make the shortest rounds they are more likely to work in all the guns.

mistermojorizin · Jul 30, 2017

rwsmith said:
Yes, the nose or shoulder of the bullet would hit the lands and not plunk all the way in. It takes only a little. When I tried to bump the back of the slide they REALLY got stuck and I had to force the slide open. Compact 9mms seem to be notorious for short chambers. i have many 9mms and trying to get reloaded ammo to be reliable in each one was a trick. It doesn't help that I experiment with a wide variety of bullets. Took me a long time to get it to work in all the guns. I have several compacts, a few full size and a carbine, all very different in their workings. It seems if I make the shortest rounds they are more likely to work in all the guns.

Plunked a round into the chamber. It looked ok to me, but I snapped the pic below. Turning the barrel over, the round easily fell out on its own. Does this look ok?

GKDvupIHT_M98pVixxUtGV28DSiuzyihkxe9g_9pqSnbUhJrNLQ3OJ5HgSbtwv3kOptv9kRzzEM3tQN0c5Nn94lfQpSdVHv5-EqNpGf8mzgb7Drildtg9G7u3qivnw2J6sw_yUezI3qBis9LoZJxRx46AM0lqHHBfpvrShxEHKBow1NmMYHD28d75AH4Kx-ByA64vww2Laica-jqInLe-uEWm4mEmL2veK5okUaYRTy76hSnjvo00D34m0gHD1EW1gGU64zUx9WtS4dadcKRSm2kK8nWeOEftXjncuXHM1NKeNfZ2474KnOsBbMGHebXlBCbWC3JIpY27dx1-GFCVJCKOT7eYkLk2Lzv9UQkBAfqVGkzz2vs3evBtSoMb-elwk-K3nNXFEJ6jL9WA1NBSbHrm-zPAlaqQ4Dg-mVU-_xaWuTUJWJXMbV9S-jiaMxPdneUmfDojQ6EdDcA8oNtjXNn4XI2dn_pJFlkJ1t78HtbH54E7HDe__mHmiJLqykCOz1nm25-toVHvzcPODgtzey21xRmL1uEV8UahaExgBwQSMAqDtqEL1f3s2cwTS3gXcus7wesOw4F26nytDXBYL-ZIwwvQXQnPTCqDFhqfTqjzQbEuOAfrJj8=w720-h960-no

Edit: found something online to compare it to and that's pretty much what it looked like:

scattershot · Jul 30, 2017

Sounds like inadequate leade in the chamber. Most loads chamber fine, but if you use ammo with a different ogive, sometimes it will hang up because the bullet is engaging the rifling. Smith will probably tell you that the chamber is in spec, but you might want to contact them anyway, to see what they can do for you.

Failing that, a gunsmith can tweak the leade for you to solve the problem.

rwsmith · Jul 30, 2017

Exactly....

scattershot said:
Sounds like inadequate leade in the chamber. Most loads chamber fine, but if you use ammo with a different ogive, sometimes it will hang up because the bullet is engaging the rifling. Smith will probably tell you that the chamber is in spec, but you might want to contact them anyway, to see what they can do for you.

Failing that, a gunsmith can tweak the leade for you to solve the problem.

I bought some RN bullets, but the web page neglected to mention that they were 'small ball' which have no taper to the ogive. Even loading these to the recommended 1.06' overall length gave trouble in some guns. I got down to 1.055" and they started working great. But it was a VERY frustrating time getting to that point. From now on I make sure that I have tapered RN bullets. I had already had S&W put in a new barrel and was considering the reaming out by the gunsmith about the time I got it figured out.

jim46ok · Jul 30, 2017

rwsmith said:
I bought some RN bullets, but the web page neglected to mention that they were 'small ball' which have no taper to the ogive. Even loading these to the recommended 1.06' overall length gave trouble in some guns. I got down to 1.055" and they started working great. But it was a VERY frustrating time getting to that point. From now on I make sure that I have tapered RN bullets. I had already had S&W put in a new barrel and was considering the reaming out by the gunsmith about the time I got it figured out.

Your exercise is correct, in that just a .005" difference can solve issues. A little "freebore" is good. When I load my rifle ammo, I load a long round and mark it with a marker. Chamber it and look for rifling marks. Then I seat it deeper in the case until I get just the "jump" or "freebore" I need. I think you have it solved.....

rwsmith · Jul 30, 2017

The pic didn't come through....

mistermojorizin said:
Plunked a round into the chamber. It looked ok to me, but I snapped the pic below. Turning the barrel over, the round easily fell out on its own. Does this look ok?

Edit: found something online to compare it to and that's pretty much what it looked like:

Did it pass or fail? Chamber a round and note the position of the slide fully in battery. Does it look like the slide is as far forward as it is with an empty chamber. It doesn't take much to be 'out of battery'. Bump the back of the slide to see if it will go in. Start light because like I said, the bullet can get stuck and you'll have to force the slide open. I have a 'method' of doing it by hand, but I've had to take to tapping it with a wood block to it a few times.

PS Jacketed bullets don't get 'stuck' as easily, so they could still fall out in the plunk test.

mistermojorizin · Jul 30, 2017

rwsmith said:
Did it pass or fail? Chamber a round and note the position of the slide fully in battery. Does it look like the slide is as far forward as it is with an empty chamber. It doesn't take much to be 'out of battery'. Bump the back of the slide to see if it will go in. Start light because like I said, the bullet can get stuck and you'll have to force the slide open. I have a 'method' of doing it by hand, but I've had to take to tapping it with a wood block to it a few times.

PS Jacketed bullets don't get 'stuck' as easily, so they could still fall out in the plunk test.

It looked like it passed. I could also rotate the round freely inside the barrell. I put it back together and chambered a round, and it was not "out of battery" at all. I bumped the slide forward but there was no where to go. The round plunked out of the barrell easily again.

If it happens again, i'm definitely going to take my time and note whether it's out of battery.

rwsmith · Jul 30, 2017

Wow, intermittent failure.......

Like taking a car to a mechanic. Everything seems to be fine.

MAYBE some slightly out of spec cartridges in that batch???

If the thing is in battery and the LCI doesn't show and the gun won't fire, that would be good reason to send it back to S&W. Well, at least they'll fix it only for some cost in inconvenience to you.

Funflyer · Jul 30, 2017

After reading the rest of the OPs replies, I think this is a non-issue. Only two out of 1000 rounds using hole punch ammo failed. Now, if you have the same problems using defensive JHP ammo, that's an issue.

Shield 9 sometimes fails to fire, I can see the round in the chamber, but LCI not up

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