I have an M&P 1.0 with about 1k rounds through it and compared to some other M&P and other handguns it doesn't seem to group all that well even with hand loads. I have been looking around at the apex triggers and barrels and found something stating the older M&P 1.0 had bad barrels that wouldn't shoot well. What's acceptable accuracy from a 1.0? I am debating getting into pistol matches and kind of torn do I keep working with the 1.0, buy a CORE or upgrade the parts in the 1.0.
M&P 1.0 accuracy?
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Rastoff
US Veteran
What distance are you shooting?
What is the current group size?
Are you testing from a rest? No way to determine the accuracy of the gun if you're not.
What kind of pistol matches will you be shooting? If it's bullseye matches, the M&P is not the right tool. If they're defensive matches, like IDPA or USPSA or even Steel Challenge, the M&P is fine.
Finally, when was your M&P made?
What is the current group size?
Are you testing from a rest? No way to determine the accuracy of the gun if you're not.
What kind of pistol matches will you be shooting? If it's bullseye matches, the M&P is not the right tool. If they're defensive matches, like IDPA or USPSA or even Steel Challenge, the M&P is fine.
Finally, when was your M&P made?
CDKJudoka
Member
The 1.0 is generally "combat accurate". If you are looking to compete with it, there are a plethora of options to make your 1.0 more accurate. The barrel options, between Apex, Bar-Sto and Faxon, you can get match grade barrels. The upgrades can range from lower cost to costing more than a competition 1911.
If you are planning to get an RMR, you can send your slide out to get work done to it, or look for a CORE slide. Getting a Apex trigger will clear up any of the trigger issues you may have.
All in all, the 1.0 is an awesome platform to work with and while you don't have the same amount of aftermarket options you would with a Glock, you still have an amazing catalogue to work from.
If you are planning to get an RMR, you can send your slide out to get work done to it, or look for a CORE slide. Getting a Apex trigger will clear up any of the trigger issues you may have.
All in all, the 1.0 is an awesome platform to work with and while you don't have the same amount of aftermarket options you would with a Glock, you still have an amazing catalogue to work from.
My wife bought an M&P 4.25 CORE 9mm some years ago . Trigger was upgraded to a apex trigger & fss kit but it still shot patterns not groups at 25 yards .
Once apex came out with barrels I bought there gunsmith fit barrel . Not at all hard to fit and with the aid of a 3moa venom dot optic I can manage 1.1 25gr yards 5 shot groups with my regular 124gr coated swc practice ammo . I am running a green recoil spring not blue but will try a 18lb recoil spring . Both pistol have sub 4lb triggers , wifes CORE is 3lb 4oz mine has a thumb safety and 3lb 10oz pull weight and is a carry pistol .
Now oddly my 40sw 4.25 with the same trigger group and bought the same yearis rather accurate , I have not "benched " it but standing fireing with a two hand hold at 50feet as quickly as I can settled the sights - .780 average per round I have fired groups I can cover with my hand and I am running a 20lb recoil spring . Glock recoil springs work in the m&p too .
Once apex came out with barrels I bought there gunsmith fit barrel . Not at all hard to fit and with the aid of a 3moa venom dot optic I can manage 1.1 25gr yards 5 shot groups with my regular 124gr coated swc practice ammo . I am running a green recoil spring not blue but will try a 18lb recoil spring . Both pistol have sub 4lb triggers , wifes CORE is 3lb 4oz mine has a thumb safety and 3lb 10oz pull weight and is a carry pistol .
Now oddly my 40sw 4.25 with the same trigger group and bought the same yearis rather accurate , I have not "benched " it but standing fireing with a two hand hold at 50feet as quickly as I can settled the sights - .780 average per round I have fired groups I can cover with my hand and I am running a 20lb recoil spring . Glock recoil springs work in the m&p too .
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USPSA and IDPA type stuff. Right now at 21ft they shoot maybe 8'' groups.
Not sure when the M&P was made. I purchased it used 10yrs ago.
I replaced the recoil spring with an OEM 3 months ago. I am not sure what weight it is but it came from S&W.
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I would try shooting from a solid rest, let someone else try it under the same conditions and different ammo. I too would would be concerned with 8” groups at 7 yards unless you are in a shotgun match...
AXIS223 No Color on the spring = 20 green 16. somthun , lite blue 9mm . I running my last green in my wifes 9mm with standard pressure ammo .
Shoot from a solid rest to check both owner ability and handguns ability but try to use an aim point that fits your sights !!
Shoot from a solid rest to check both owner ability and handguns ability but try to use an aim point that fits your sights !!
I bought a used 1.0 performance center CORE. Was exactly the same. Had me questioning if I had developed a bad flinch or was not as good as I once was.
I tried every ammo and hand load combination I could think of. Then found this forum several years back and bought an APEX barrel. Way, way different. My slide was so out of spec. Their gunsmith fit barrel literally dropped right in.
They had me send it to them and they fitted a new one that they had. Problem solved. It’s all APEX parts now and pretty much keeps them all in a golf ball size group. I’ve even made shots at over 200 yeards and hit the target.
I tried every ammo and hand load combination I could think of. Then found this forum several years back and bought an APEX barrel. Way, way different. My slide was so out of spec. Their gunsmith fit barrel literally dropped right in.
They had me send it to them and they fitted a new one that they had. Problem solved. It’s all APEX parts now and pretty much keeps them all in a golf ball size group. I’ve even made shots at over 200 yeards and hit the target.
It’s a question of how much you are willing to spend to upgrade your accuracy.
A replacement S&W improved barrel is probably about $110.
A Storm Lake drop-in, maybe a little better than the S&W, is about $175.
An Apex drop-in will be more accurate than either of the above, especially on a worn gun, at about $180, but with the best support anywhere in the gun world. You will be really pleased with this for your intended uses.
The penultimate is the gunsmith fit Apex barrel. With fitting, it will set you back about $350 if shipped to Apex. If you can afford it, you will not regret it.
All that being said, I have a Full Size 9mm M&P made in 2015. OEM barrel will shoot $0.25 size groups with 10 rounds rested, normal range ammo at 10 yards. I got very lucky with that gun. It shoots better than most factory editions. My Apex GSF barrel shoots even better, but I don’t.
A replacement S&W improved barrel is probably about $110.
A Storm Lake drop-in, maybe a little better than the S&W, is about $175.
An Apex drop-in will be more accurate than either of the above, especially on a worn gun, at about $180, but with the best support anywhere in the gun world. You will be really pleased with this for your intended uses.
The penultimate is the gunsmith fit Apex barrel. With fitting, it will set you back about $350 if shipped to Apex. If you can afford it, you will not regret it.
All that being said, I have a Full Size 9mm M&P made in 2015. OEM barrel will shoot $0.25 size groups with 10 rounds rested, normal range ammo at 10 yards. I got very lucky with that gun. It shoots better than most factory editions. My Apex GSF barrel shoots even better, but I don’t.
Angus46 My wifes slide was not is loose as yours but only needed a few soft licks from a file on the hood to pushin snug a little wet sand paper to polis and first mag of underwood +P to run great No filing under nether needed .
CB3 Well my adjective is to do fitting my self . Yea most m&p's seem to shoot like shotguns but some were Ok like my 40sw is. So you did not try to fit your own apex gsf barrel ?
CB3 Well my adjective is to do fitting my self . Yea most m&p's seem to shoot like shotguns but some were Ok like my 40sw is. So you did not try to fit your own apex gsf barrel ?
Ranger17
Member
If i read it right, the gun just averages maybe 100 rounds a year thru it; has it shot those groups from the day you picked it up or have they varied? Has anyone else shot it?
My 1.0 is about 7 yrs old that is all stock. While i never consider myself any great shot my groups are far smaller than 8” even at 15 to 25 yds.
Point being if someone else shoots it poorly and off a rest then it likely is mechanical in nature. Perhaps it was off from the factory and thats why the original owner sold it; but my expectation would definitely be better than 8” without any mods.
Btw SW should be able to give you the dating based on the serial # if that helps any.
I tested my M&P 1.0 4.25” CORE and 5” ported performance center in the ransom rest using about 15 different handloads. I then fit each gun with an Apex barrel and repeated the very same tests in the ransom. The results were staggering the average with the stock barrels were around 3” @ 25 yards. With the Apex barrels fit in the pistols they were able to group both under 3/4” that’s 5 round groups. For an M&P you won’t find a better barrel than the Apex. I use Barsto in everything else.
Fitting the barrel is an enjoyable experience, just get the semi fit
Fitting the barrel is an enjoyable experience, just get the semi fit
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No.
I am mechanically inclined and enjoy working on my own guns. However when I read the lengths Randy and Apex went to discover the mechanical problems with OEM M&P barrels, I knew my limited understanding of all those parameters would likely produce an improved but still substandard fit. They have done dozens and developed the experience to do it absolutely correctly in all dimensions. They have a Ranson rest to test it. I don’t.
Besides, when they do it they go through the gun for a thorough tune up, especially with their trigger control parts installed. They are experts with all things M&P. I was glad to pay the money to have dedicated, experienced professionals gunsmith my M&P.
I had several M&P-9's and never got the accuracy out of it that I get from virtually every other gun. This was a shame because I really like the M&P. I tried drop in barrels from several companies with no benefit.
A bit of research should show discussion about the pre-2012 models and this sort of issue, which resulted in S&W changing the twist rate around 2012 and, in my opinion, contributed to the need to bring out the 2.0. There were insinuations that those pistols were having a lockup timing problem too, but I have no idea if that was true.
If you want an accurate older M&P 1.0, it appears the best course of action is to fit an Apex barrel. Lots of good reports about them on this forum. I have no first hand knowledge but that's what I would try...
I still don't have a M&P... one of my favorite all-time pistols for reliability, ergonomics, etc., but a bad experience for me. I keep looking at the M&P-9 2.0...
A bit of research should show discussion about the pre-2012 models and this sort of issue, which resulted in S&W changing the twist rate around 2012 and, in my opinion, contributed to the need to bring out the 2.0. There were insinuations that those pistols were having a lockup timing problem too, but I have no idea if that was true.
If you want an accurate older M&P 1.0, it appears the best course of action is to fit an Apex barrel. Lots of good reports about them on this forum. I have no first hand knowledge but that's what I would try...
I still don't have a M&P... one of my favorite all-time pistols for reliability, ergonomics, etc., but a bad experience for me. I keep looking at the M&P-9 2.0...
Rastoff
US Veteran
The M&P is perfect for this type of shooting.
This means nothing if you didn't test this from a rest. Until you do that, the accuracy is you and the gun. Sure, it's possible that it's the gun, but it's impossible to distinguish between gun and shooter without removing the shooter. Only shooting from a rest can do that.
If you bought it used that long ago, it may have one of the original barrels. Call S&W and verify the age. They may replace the barrel for you if it's one of the very early ones.
stavey Apex made a deal with barsto to produce there barrels !
Rasoff . Our 9mm core in that same age range and it did go home for a check up and a note came with it saying it was in spec !! So much for spec . Any that m&p 4.25 core of ours was anything but accurate even for uspsa use but thanks to apex parts it is now a fine shooter . Both tiems fired from a solid rest I just find it odd how many guys with a 40sw say they shoot well .
Rasoff . Our 9mm core in that same age range and it did go home for a check up and a note came with it saying it was in spec !! So much for spec . Any that m&p 4.25 core of ours was anything but accurate even for uspsa use but thanks to apex parts it is now a fine shooter . Both tiems fired from a solid rest I just find it odd how many guys with a 40sw say they shoot well .
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LIke everyone else.. Go Apex! Randy Lee from Apex figured how how to increase dwell time and prevent the barrel from unlocking early, accuracy went through the roof. I had trouble getting groups less than six inches at twenty five yards with the OEM barrel, I did an Apex semi-fit barrel with instructions from YouTube.. now it's a seriously accurate weapons system.
ultratec00
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My M&P 9Cs (1.0 and 2.0) have been finicky as well. The 1.0 was a little harder to shoot with the stubby grip, but still had a hard time getting any kind of a decent group (for my expectations). Came across a storm lake barrel for a decent price and it improved accuracy with my preferred loads.
My 2.0 9C w/ 3.6" barrel has been finicky as well. Tried numerous seating depths and charge weights, but haven't found the magic combination when it comes to zero 115 JHPs or Hornady 115gr HAP. Shoots lights out with Speer factory 124gr gold dots, but that's the only factory load that has to date but not my preferred approach. Love gold dots, don't like the price per round and prefer something that's affordable and can be practiced with w/o breaking the wallet and/or mimics my hand loads. Swapped out to the storm lake and it showed improved accuracy with the aforementioned reloads (yes, same barrel between the 1.0 and 2.0). Ran across a Wilson barrel at a very good price and will swap that out and see how well it shoots.
My 2.0 9C w/ 3.6" barrel has been finicky as well. Tried numerous seating depths and charge weights, but haven't found the magic combination when it comes to zero 115 JHPs or Hornady 115gr HAP. Shoots lights out with Speer factory 124gr gold dots, but that's the only factory load that has to date but not my preferred approach. Love gold dots, don't like the price per round and prefer something that's affordable and can be practiced with w/o breaking the wallet and/or mimics my hand loads. Swapped out to the storm lake and it showed improved accuracy with the aforementioned reloads (yes, same barrel between the 1.0 and 2.0). Ran across a Wilson barrel at a very good price and will swap that out and see how well it shoots.
