Asking if it is feasible to add the Red Dot to my gun. Or buy a new gun all ready set up to add the Red Dot. My slide is not milled for the Red Dot. Or buy a new slide all ready milled. Any thoughts and ideas.

I'm a huge fan of red dot opticals. I just sent my slide out to be milled and Cerekoted.

Milling is a very easy option, several companies do it. A quick search found this
smith and wesson M&P slide milling - Google Search

I would send it out and get it milled then have it coated a custom color. You will probably spend $250 compared an aftermarket slide which ive seen to be much more.


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I have 2 -2.0 3.6" compacts with RMR's. They are fantastic. 6,500 rounds on one and 500 on the latest one. I recommend that you get a Trijicon RMR or a Holosun.
AETi did the milling. They supply 2 sets of locking screws that don't require lock-tite and don't come loose.
I had them nitride my slides.
No need to re-zero when changing the battery because the slide is milled for the red-dot that you send to them.

What are thoughts on a dovetail mounting plate by EGW to mount Red Dot to then?

Outer impact makes a mount that fits the dovetail. I have set up two this way and it works great. Also will mount all the top red dots. On another I have a Leupold and they make a dovetail mount for it to fit M&P's. I prefer to not mill the slide an it's less expensive to use a dovetail mount.

You have options. Let us know what you decide.

Options fit needs. You haven’t told us what your needs are. Range gun? Concealed carry? New RDS user? Which optic do you plan to get? Serious about this or just want to try it out? Budget?

We can help, but recommendations that fit your needs are more useful than a broad range of options that don’t.

Milled slide is better than dovetail mount... it gets the optic lower, and you want it as low as possible to maintain a similar index as you had with iron sights. A dovetail mount also makes having backup irons nearly impossible.

S&W (or anyone esle) will likely not warranty a gun with a slide that has been milled if that's a concern for you. I prefer a factory milled gun for that, and quality control reasons. Usually, if there is a factory version of the gun you want that's 'optic ready', you can sell the one you have and buy the factory gun for about the same or less than the cost of having the slide milled. Especially in today's market... the only question being the availability of the new gun.

As far as optics, the best choices right now are Trijicon and Holoson. I now have four Holosuns, and I honestly see no need to spend the extra money on the RMR. You're not getting any extra performance for the difference.

All good thoughts. It is a conceal carrier gun but also a range gun. I just want a better sight as the small front sight is hard to pick up. It is a FDE color so that makes it a bit tougher to find. People I am with mostly have the Red Dots and really like them. No preference on manuf. AETI says 8 to 10 weeks for milling. I may just look for a new black gun all ready set up for the red dot. Will be easier. Or could try dovetail set up and take off it I don't like it.

Since you say you have friends with red dot set ups, try their guns and see what set up you like the best. If you plan to conceal carry, the dovetail mount should be a nonstarter. You should have cowitnessed iron sights which includes a rear iron sight. Only milling the slide will give you that proper CCW set up with the RDS as low as possible.

Generic slide cuts with mounting plates are generally less secure and elevate the RDS, somewhat defeating the advantage to milling the slide. I don’t think compromising on CCW systems is wise. You should know what you want, how you want it and the time and cost to get it.

Do what you want with a range toy/experimental sight system, but the farther away you are from a competent concealed carry set up either in budget or actual mounting, the less information you’ll have to make a good decision for concealed carry. That’s why shooting other peoples guns if you can can will help you narrow your choices and set priorities.

I am absolutely in favor of red dot sights for a faster and more forgiving defensive handgun sight picture. But I am also a stickler for having good equipment set up correctly. There is no point in handicapping yourself for a potential future self defense situation.

My EDC for the last four years:

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I can get an optic ready gun just like I have only in black from Grabagun here locally. Then add the red dot. Try both of them for a while and sell one. Will think about it ask friends also. One of them would most likely buy the one I don't want. Or keep both in todays world. Thanks for all the help.

So far I've had two M&P 2.0 Compacts and I used an Outer Impact dovetail mount to use an RMR and Vortex Venom on them. I am very happy with the arrangement and won a couple of local shooting matches using this combination.
As mentioned, co-witnessing is out of the question with a dovetail mount, but at least you get to keep your holster collection (no suppressor height front sight). Acquiring the dot while indexing the gun isn't a problem. I think that the difference in sight height between a milled slide and a dovetail mount is less than half an inch.
That said, your mileage may vary.

I'd forego the dovetail mount. Either mill it, get a pre-milled slide, or sell it and buy an optics ready gun out of the box. You've got a lot of great options out there no matter which of those you choose.

You've received a lot of good advice above. Since you have a compact, I guess that you might be interested in concealment. This presents a major problem as you're about to raise the effective height of your slide considerably. This can make concealment very difficult, to say nothing of the issues in finding a holster that will accept an optic and be concealable. Many of the optic ready holsters are "IDPA accepted" or words to that effect. Loosely translated, that means it'll conceal-wink, wink, nudge, nudge-under a garment made for someone 50 or so pounds heavier than you are. It won't be real world concealed.

Depending upon your level experience and training, finding the dot quickly can be an issue, but with a lot of practice, you can learn to do it. There are some optics out there that are smaller than others. You don't want an optic much larger (wider) than the slide, but the itty, bitty optics also often have an itty, bitty field of view which can be an issue trying to find the dot.

Finally, the major benefit of the optic is at ranges of about 20 yards and out. The average private citizen defensive altercation is at about 5 yards.

Not entirely true. Optics have a definite benefit at longer ranges, especially in low light, and for those of use whose aging eyes can no longer focus on the front sight.

The primary benefit, however, comes from a single plane/threat focus. With a dot, you no longer have to try to focus on sights and threats at the same time. Focus on the threat and superimpose the dot. This is the part that most shooters don't get right unless they've done their research or had training. And it's the part that can really improve speed and accuracy for a beginning or mid pack shooter. It also really improves your ability to process what your threat is doing.

For us old dogs, it might take a little longer to get dialed in with a dot, especially up close. I know it did for me, but the result was well worth it.

I have a 2.0 compact non milled and have been thinking about doing this as well. Does having the slide milled have any perceptible advantage over buying a factory milled slide from S&W? Will S&W sell the slide?

The advantage of a dovetail RDS mount is that it may be a cheap and quick way to find out if you will like an RDS. It is not a solution for a self defense gun to be carried. It is also a handicap for many reasons, thus not giving a good experience to make a good decision.

A critical component of fast, accurate self defense shooting is one’s grip. With an RDS, consistent, familiar grip is a key part of accurate presentation to the target, and that eliminates having to search for the dot in the window. With a dovetail mount if you keep your head in the same position as when you shoot all your other guns with iron sights, you will not be able to see through the sight. You must hold the gun lower because of the extra half inch height of the sight. Such a completely different alignment/presentation is no advantage for defensive shooting whatsoever, unless this is the only gun you ever shoot. Even then there are other disadvantages.

I am not aware of any shooting discipline that suggests that mounting a sighting system higher above the bore than necessary is a good thing. On a pistol, the downward angle of the higher mounted sighting plane will have only a short intersection with the bullet path because of being pointed down into the path. This means that accurate shooting is more difficult because at close ranges the bullet will be below the dot and at only slightly longer ranges the bullet will be above the dot.

Contrast that with the RDS mounted much lower to the bore where you have a much more forgiving and longer sight intersection (closer to parallel) with the path of the bullet and less vertical variation. That is a distinct advantage.

RDS have different heights of the sight depending on their construction. If one chooses a taller sight, that adds to the height above bore problem with the sighting system. This is exacerbated when such a sight is put on top of a dovetail mount.

You cannot have a useable rear sight with a dovetail mounted RDS. Front and rear sites (usually taller than stock) are a distinct advantage of both learning to use the RDS and for back up if the dot fails for any reason. A proper self-defense installation will have both sighting systems with the rear sight behind the RDS.

The lower mounting of the RDS in the slide is more secure and much less likely to get caught or snagged on anything which is a big consideration when drawing from concealment. Handling the gun is less unwieldy. If the gun is dropped or smashed against an object the lower mounting is much more forgiving.

No matter how robust the dovetail mount is, if the sight is screwed onto the top of it and it does not have bosses that mate into the bottom of the sight or front and rear ledges, the mounting screws carry the force of recoil and going back into battery. This is less secure. A milled slide specific for the RDS secures the unit primarily with the front and rear edges. The screws are an additional security feature. This is significantly more secure. Generic slide cuts with plates are a compromise still, but better than the dovetail mount.

As well, the sight being higher above the slide has different forces acting on it compared to riding down in the slide. The weight of the sight during recoil is transferred to the slide at the very rear of the slide, increasing muzzle flip and slowing follow up shots. The gun actually feels different under recoil.

There are likely other disadvantages of dovetail mounts, but suffice it to say, if one is really interested in mounting a red dot sight for target-focused sighting (natural), greater shooting speed because of fewer eye gymnastics required, and a more forgiving sighting system as far as alignment goes, mounting the RDS as low as possible into the slide is the modern solution. A dovetail mount degrades too many of the advantages of an RDS to be considered a serious self defense solution.

From personal experience, I disagree with all of these statements.

Adding red dots on my slides has not decreased my ability to conceal any of my guns. Theory maybe, practically, no problem AIWB.

Excellent red dot holsters are available from a wide variety of quality holster makers. As with all CCW, taking into account position and body shape always influences your choices, but the red dot doesn’t change that really. Real world concealment is easy.

With training, finding the dot is not an issue. If you can align iron sights, you can find the dot. It will be right on top of your irons. Can’t align irons? You won’t be able to find the dot. That’s not a red dot problem; it’s a shooter problem.

Finally, the red dot’s major benefit is definitely not that it helps with hitting beyond 20 yards. The major advantage is that there is a single plane of sighting focus which is the target or the threat. This makes sighted fire much faster and easier at all ranges where the site dot is used.

Guys, the explanation of the single sighting plane is basically making a technical explanation of the practical effect i describe regarding range. At the closer distances, razor sharp sight alignment doesn't matter as much. Being an old fart I'm well aware of the issues of aging eyes.

I've spent a lot of time in low light with optical sights of various types. As far as low light goes, the red dots typically don't transmit as much light as conventional optics do. I expect this has to do with the lens coating to allow the red dot show up better. Now, if one has a light one can control, the red dot has it all over irons.

At least as of a couple of years ago, S&W isn't selling slides other than the complete CORE slide assemblies. There's always gunbroker & ebay.

I believe you're missing our point... Used properly, you don't look through a holographic/reflex like you would a magnified optic. You look at your threat/target, with both eyes open, and the reticle is 'automatically' superimposed over the target in your line of vision.

We teach this in training by occluding the front of the sight. The dot is still perfectly (sometimes more) visible. Light transmission through the optic is immaterial, unless you're closing the other eye and looking through it, which is not what it was designed for. If you're looking at the dot, you're doing it wrong, and IMHO this is why many folks decide they don't like RDS on handguns.

The threat focused nature of RDS optics on a handgun frees up a lot of vision and mental processing that were traditionally used up on sight picture; now that vision and mental energy can be used to evaluate the threat and process options in dealing with said threat.

I got the S&W gun with milled slide. Bought a Holosun 507C and mounted it very easily. Now need to go to the range and practice with it. Concealed carry very nicely.

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