Targets Guy
US Veteran
I've had pretty good luck with Aguila HV.
1255 fps
1255 fps
Is there a decent self defense round for the M&P 22 Compact?
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Erich
Member
Reliable operation is always a concern with a .22 LR handgun owing mostly to ignition issues - my M&P Compact 22 has been very reliable with everything except the ultra-underpowered "quiet" rounds, but I'm sure you'd never use anything from the bulk pile for defensive use. The longer .22 LR cases of the Stingers have been no problem at all in my gun - I did have a problem with Velocitors when my thumb brushed the slide as it operated, but that's hardly on the CCI round.
I've worked on .22 handgun killings with all kinds of rounds - just like with every other handgun, you need shot placement and adequate penetration. Chasing a magic bullet for defensive use in such a gun/caliber uses up time you'd better spend practicing.
Meanwhile, some real-world velocity data for a variety of rounds from this gun can be found here: Best ammo M&P 22 Compact/M&P 15-22
I've worked on .22 handgun killings with all kinds of rounds - just like with every other handgun, you need shot placement and adequate penetration. Chasing a magic bullet for defensive use in such a gun/caliber uses up time you'd better spend practicing.
Meanwhile, some real-world velocity data for a variety of rounds from this gun can be found here: Best ammo M&P 22 Compact/M&P 15-22
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Lucky Gunner has ballistic gel test information at: https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/pocket-pistol-caliber-gel-test-results/#22LR
The CCI Velocitor works fine in my M&P 22 compact and performed reasonably well in the test.
The CCI Velocitor works fine in my M&P 22 compact and performed reasonably well in the test.
STORMINORMAN
Member
Mini-Mags, the Super Extras from Auguila mentioned above & the PUNCH would be the three types I have had almost universal success with in my 22s, both in rifles and pistols...
These would also be the 1st three that I would test per the original post question as to a "decent (substitute) self defense round"?
These would also be the 1st three that I would test per the original post question as to a "decent (substitute) self defense round"?
Yankeefan
Member
We’ve started seeing some coyotes in our suburban neighborhood so Ive been looking at .22 LR defense ammo for critters. Defense rounds aren’t just for criminals, after all.
I would recommend the Personal Defense Punch. Its been very reliable and accurate in my Glock 44. I like the Velocitors and Stingers too, but expansion of the PDP round would do more damage from what Ive seen. In the unlikely event, I have a confrontation with a coyote, I’d only get 1-2 shots off so I’d want the stopping power.
I would recommend the Personal Defense Punch. Its been very reliable and accurate in my Glock 44. I like the Velocitors and Stingers too, but expansion of the PDP round would do more damage from what Ive seen. In the unlikely event, I have a confrontation with a coyote, I’d only get 1-2 shots off so I’d want the stopping power.
STORMINORMAN
Member
He didn't ask about suggestions for a suitable caliber: he asked about 22lr bullets.
Cheers!
P.S. You are totally entitled to express your opinion about the suitability of the 22lr for self defense, but...
Even the question was not about rimfire reliability, it still requires clarification:
Not exactly.
.22LR has been working as defense ammo for over 130 years... and as I know, nothing has changed within human body since 1890's
Everything is about proper usage of 22LR handgun.
Not exactly.
.22LR has been working as defense ammo for over 130 years... and as I know, nothing has changed within human body since 1890's
Everything is about proper usage of 22LR handgun.
THE PILGRIM
Member
I’ve had a 22LR failure to fire as recently as today.
CCI Stinger failed to fire in my new Ruger LCP.
I’ve had similar situations with MiniMags, my preferred 22 Ammo.
CCI Stinger failed to fire in my new Ruger LCP.
I’ve had similar situations with MiniMags, my preferred 22 Ammo.
No, the OP asked if there is a decent self defense round for the .22 M&P.
Since, due to the defects I previously raised, there isn't a good .22 LR defense round, logic dictates that there isn't a good .22 LR defense round for the M&P 22.
If .22 was a good defense load, the Secret Service would be using it.
Since, due to the defects I previously raised, there isn't a good .22 LR defense round, logic dictates that there isn't a good .22 LR defense round for the M&P 22.
If .22 was a good defense load, the Secret Service would be using it.
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cyphertext
US Veteran
So only the ammunition that the Secret Service uses is good for self defense? Nope, try again.
cyphertext
US Veteran
I recently purchased some of the Winchester Silvertip .22, but I have not had a chance to run it through my LCP. Many believe it is nothing more than the Winchester HE segmenting varmint load with a marketing spin. I am hoping that rounds that are marketed as self defense may receive a little more quality checks.
No,
That's another error in logic.
If the .22 is not good enough for the Secret Service to use, that doesn't compel this conclusion. There may be many rounds that work fine.
Example: if the .22 doesn't work, and the Secret Service uses 9mm, you can't conclude that .40 doesn't work.
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Looks like we started interesting discussion here... which actually doesn't have sense and doesn't bring any values to the topic
Please notice... if few people have reported issues, it doesn't mean the product is bad.
Even I could say bad things about 22LR or M&P22C - I had multiple malfunctions with CCI ammo at the very beginning. But it turned to be problem with chamber's sharp edges. Once I smoothed it out - no more problems with the same ammo.
All is individual experience, let's not do this a global problem.
If .22LR was a bad defense load - nobody would make it anymore.
It is the same logic.. or perhaps we don't know if SS uses .22LR... because there services are "secret"?
There are few valuable posts here that answered OP clearly.
cyphertext
US Veteran
That is exactly what your logic is. "If .22 was a good defense load, the Secret Service would be using it."
The Secret Service is not using .40, .357 SIG, .45, .380... Per your own statement, if these were good defensive rounds, the Secret Service would be using them. They are not using them, and in fact some agencies have moved away from them, therefore they must not be a good defensive load per your logic and statement.
However, all of that is moot anyway, as civilian use of a firearm for defense is a totally different use than the mission of the Secret Service or any other law enforcement.
The first rule is to have a gun. Most defensive uses of a firearm are successful of stopping the threat without a shot being fired. In those instances, a firearm, any firearm, worked as most folks don't want to get shot. If the aggressor flees at the sight of the firearm, my goal has been met of stopping the threat. I don't need to hold that person or take them into custody like law enforcement would do.
If I have to fire, there are certainly disadvantages of using a .22lr. It is not as powerful as the other cartridges previously listed, nor is the ignition as reliable. However, for a person who may have a disability or issue that restricts their use of a more powerful round, the .22lr can still provide a means of being armed. See rule number one of a gunfight. It is all risk, acceptance of risk, and tradeoff. It may not be the right option for you, but could be one of the better options for others.
Fulton722
Member
Let me know how a young attacker makes out when he gets one or more .22 caliber CCIs to the face / throat from the SR-22 used by a frail little 70 year old woman who has practiced with her pistol, and is very proficient with it. This woman simply can't operate more robust self-defense firearms !
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Sure they would. The vast majority of 22 is purchased for plinking, target shooting and small game hunting. If using 22 for self defense was banned it wouldn't make a noticeable difference in how much 22 is sold in the US.
Even though it gets used for self defense just about any centerfire handgun cartridge would be a better choice. If wants a low recoil handgun that is easy to shoot they would be better off with something like a 380 EZ or a 38 revolver with light loads.
But the OP didn't say why he wants a defense load for his 22 Compact or ask if 22LR is a good choice for self defense. I suspect he knows there are better choices but has reasons for wanting to use a 22 Compact for self defense. Or is asking for a wife/relative/friend that is recoil shy to the point they will only consider a 22 and have absolutely no desire to train and practice enough to become comfortable with a more capable caliber. Which is why I recommended CCI Minimags and skipped mentioning there are better calibers.
Back in the late 70s when early emission controls had dramatically reduced the horsepower of the Corvette engine to less than 200 HP Zora Arkus-Duntov, "The father of the Corvette" was asked if he thought the Corvette should go from a front engine design to a mid engine design. He replied "When is washing machine motor, makes no difference".
I feel the same way about defense ammo for a 22. A bullet that expands will lack the power to penetrate. A bullet that does not expand or tumble might have adequate penetration but will do less damage along the way. So there really isn't much point in trying to find the most effective type of 22 LR other than to trying to find the most reliable type for your gun. Which in my experience is 40 grain, copper washed, round nose CCI Minimags.
I bought 3 50rd boxes of CCI Velocitor and will fire them in 3 different 22's next week. The weapons are a SW 22compact, a Walther 22 ppq as well as a Ruger 10/22 takedown. I intend to also compare the CCI Velocitor (CPHP 40 grain 1435fps) vs the Armscor ( 36 grain CPHP HV). I will provide an update at that time. Comments/Thoughts/Suggestions?
THE PILGRIM
Member
Hallelujah, Praise the Lord , Pass the Ammunition!
Which Ammunition?
Federal Punch, that’s what!
I just ordered 500 Rounds of 22LR Punch.
They warned me not to get antsy, it’ll be a while before they ship it.
Which Ammunition?
Federal Punch, that’s what!
I just ordered 500 Rounds of 22LR Punch.
They warned me not to get antsy, it’ll be a while before they ship it.
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Jim Watson
Member
Since we started out in self defense, I would concentrate on the pistols, unless you are in the habit of keeping a loaded rifle handy for home defense.
