Trying to Love my CSX

[Markmontana]

Just came back from my third range outing with my CSX. My groups are getting a little tighter but I still have 2-3 flyers per magazine. Total round count is up to 350. I’m just not shooting the CSX as well as my P365, Hellcat, Kimber Mako7 or Glock 43. I don’t know why I’m having such a tough time “mastering” this pistol. It’s not the trigger. Truth is I love a single action. I only shoot at 7yds and my groups are mostly 3-1/2 to 4 inches with the occasional flyer that strays another 2-3 inches.
I’m beginning to think that sight radius has something to do with it so I looked for some comparisons:
CSX 4.6”
P365. 4.9”
P365XL 5.6”
G43. 5.09”

Any thoughts from the group?

 

[Telecaster]

3 1/2 to 4" groups at 7 yards is not good at all. What size groups do you get from the others?

 

[jurek]

Small handguns are very sensible for any bad grip or trigger press. That might be you problem having 3"- 4" groups at 7 yards.
As @Telecaster mentioned - what are the groups from other handguns?

 

[sigp220.45]

Yeah, 4 inches at 7 yards with regular flyers expanding things by another 3 inches would be a no-go for me. I shoot paper targets more often than I shoot people so “minute of thug” doesn’t cut it.

Sell that thing.

 

[18DAI]

What grain weight 9mm are you using? 115?

Try various manufacturers rounds in 124 and 147. All my 9mm pistols shoot 147 most accurately. But every gun is a law unto itself. Try and find a round it "likes".

Oh, and don't drink the whole 32oz coffee on the way to the range. A bowl of cigarettes and a pot of coffee and I will shoot a 5 inch group at 3 yards. Regards 18DAI

 

[Markmontana]

I usually get 2-3 inch groups with rarely a flyer with the other pistols. Most accurate and consistent with the P365 followed by G43, then Shield Plus, with Hellcat and Mako7 tied for fourth place. CSX last.
Mostly shoot 115 Blazer Brass with about 50 rounds of Federal 124HST ( my usual carry load). Haven’t tried 147gr but will run some next range trip.

 

[murphydog]

I suspect 0.3" less sight radius compared to the subcompact 9 mm you shoot best is not the cause of your accuracy woes.

If you have not already done so, I would try shooting the CSX deliberately and slowly from a solid rest along with your P365, and bring along an experienced friend to try both also.

 

[jurek]

2"- 3" is still a little too much... however everything depends on what is the goal. If you treat these guns as self defense tools, 3" spread out at 7 yards is perfect.
If you care about super precise shot... you just need more practice. Each handgun shoots differently, especially the small once.
I would follow @myrphydog suggestions... and you can also try to reverse your two handed grip and try to shoot like left handed to see if the grouping changes or remains the same.

 

[shocker]

Small handguns are very sensible for any bad grip or trigger press. That might be you problem having 3"- 4" groups at 7 yards.

Agree, it's all about how a small thin grip fits in the hand. I'm guessing if you clamped a gun in a rest it would be very accurate.

 

[LVSteve]

I have skinny hands with long fingers. This combo means that there are many guns where the grip is too small in circumference for me to get a consistent grip. A small grip also leads to trigger reach issues for me, with my trigger finger angled way back just to get the first pad on the trigger. The alternative is to shove a lot of finger through the trigger, but that can result in my trigger finger getting into my support hand in a thumbs forward grip. As a result, I have had to abandon is the thumbs-forward IPSC/IDPA style grip due to the above issues and because I lack the hand strength to do it properly. There's an article on it here. https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/whats-wrong-grip/

It is interesting to note that Front Sight teaches the crush grip. My buddy (LOTS of hand strength) went there and found that he was far more consistent with the crush grip, especially when changing guns. On his advice I have also abandoned the thumbs forward grip, largely because it works with all guns and it keeps my long fingers away from the slide lock and mag release while shooting. It also keeps my support hand from fouling my trigger finger on guns where I have no choice but to press using the first joint rather than the pad. Did I mention I have loooong fingers?

 

[sotexas]

2"- 3" is still a little too much... however everything depends on what is the goal. If you treat these guns as self defense tools, 3" spread out at 7 yards is perfect.]

I agree with you on the self-defense group sizing. A 2" group at 7yrds will do the trick if survival is needed. If I am shooting a group to impress my range buddies, I would choose my custom 5" 1911 9mm shooting 124gr JHP's.

 

[Saudade]

I think you just need to keep practicing. If you keep switching guns, the slight changes in grip, angle, sights, etc., can throw you off a bit. Especially now that you see a hammer in your sight picture.

I have a mix of handguns too. When going to the range I generally take one most times (a Sig) and a few others out of the rest. They could be a random pick or "I haven't shot this one in a while". Could be other Sigs, M&Ps, Walther, Ruger, Beretta, etc. Some have hammers, some have strikers, some as DA/SA, some are SAO, one has a "wheel".

If I shoot my Sig (DA/SA) first, I generally get good results. I'll even decock to shoot DA about 1/3 of all rounds fired. The ones that follow often have acceptable results (at least to me. MOBG).

If I shoot my Sig last, especially after I shoot my revolver and 1911s, the grip change throws me off a bit and it takes a few mags to get back in the groove.

 

[jurek]

I have skinny hands with long fingers. This combo means that there are many guns where the grip is too small in circumference for me to get a consistent grip.

That's the trick... our hands decide which handgun shoots the best. Thank God we have so many options right now that it shouldn't be a problem to find "the one".
Each of us probably found handgun size when we start losing accuracy at certain distances. For self defense - it doesn't matter, we are still defensively accurate. But these small pistols were designed for that purpose, weren't they?

It is interesting to note that Front Sight teaches the crush grip.

I've noticed, this method is used by many Instructors... however not every handgun can be crushed to achieve accuracy. It's ok to control the firearm but without proper technique, crushing can make more bad that good.
Will this work for a tiny pistol? Hopefully yes, but it seems weird to crush something which has weight close to cutlery.

 

[BE Mike]

Can you be more specific about your range sessions? Do you shoot those 4" groups from a rest or off-hand? If off-hand, do you shoot turning targets with a time limit with multiple shots or take your time and rest in between shots?

 

[Jeppo]

Color me envious

A bowl of cigarettes and a pot of coffee and I will shoot a 5 inch group at 3 yards.

I’m envious. I usually shoot 3 yard groups at 5 inches.

 

[jurek]

I’m envious. I usually shoot 3 yard groups at 5 inches.

that's a hell of technique to put down multiple attackers with single shot.
I'm guessing CSX has been made for this.

 

[smithra_66]

Just came back from my third range outing with my CSX. My groups are getting a little tighter but I still have 2-3 flyers per magazine. Total round count is up to 350. I’m just not shooting the CSX as well as my P365, Hellcat, Kimber Mako7 or Glock 43. I don’t know why I’m having such a tough time “mastering” this pistol. It’s not the trigger. Truth is I love a single action. I only shoot at 7yds and my groups are mostly 3-1/2 to 4 inches with the occasional flyer that strays another 2-3 inches.
I’m beginning to think that sight radius has something to do with it so I looked for some comparisons:
CSX 4.6”
P365. 4.9”
P365XL 5.6”
G43. 5.09”

Any thoughts from the group?

Well, it's a micro teeny tiny little gun. It's designed to be a personal defense gun when people want to sacrifice ease of shooting for ultimate concealment.

It's designed to be pie plate accurate at 7-10 yards. I wouldn't worry about "group size" with a gun like this. As long as you can keep your shots on a torso sized target at short range you are good to go.

If you want a gun that can actually be shot well by a grown man, you should get a gun that isn't so tiny.

 

[Markmontana]

Gave up on the CSX and sold it. Pity, because I did like the feel of it. If I need to carry a subcompact I’ll reach for one of the others in my Arsenal.

Bought a Springfield SA-35 and the new P210 Carry this week. Can’t wait to get to the range this weekend.

Hey, it’s a disease.

 

[0849]

Gave up on the CSX and sold it. Pity, because I did like the feel of it. If I need to carry a subcompact I’ll reach for one of the others in my Arsenal.

Bought a Springfield SA-35 and the new P210 Carry this week. Can’t wait to get to the range this weekend.

Hey, it’s a disease.

I would be very interested in hearing how you like the SA-35.

 

[GerSan69]

I would be very interested in hearing how you like the SA-35.

Hi 0849, I've been trying to PM you about your WTT but don't get an answer. Even got dinged for not using the right words to reply. Hope to hear from you....Thanks!