S&W Equalizer Shoots Low

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GFetteplace

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I just got an Equalizer and put my first 100 rds through it. I like it way more than i thought I would. Very comfortable to shoot, acceptable trigger, no problem with the grip safety, no failures of any kind with 115 gr European ammo and 122 gr commercial reloads. It does seem to shoot quite low though (like about 6" at 7 yrds). In all fairness, it could be me. I have been shooting casually for almost 60 years, but am untrained and I'm sure I have poor form. So my questions:

1. Anybody else have problems shooting low?
2. Is there a particular bullet weight the pistol is factory-sighted to?
 
Shooting low is usually a result of anticipating recoil. As one pulls the trigger he or she pushes the handgun forward. Sight picture at 7 yards wouldn't shift the group to that extent. You need to educate your trigger finger. Dry fire can help a lot.
 
First, I tried the 6 o'clock and missed the paper on 9 of 10 rounds on a 12" target at 7 yards. The combat sight picture got me on the paper but still quite low. If I aim 5" above the center of the bull, it shoots great.
 
Start with slow fire and don't yank the trigger. I was once told to "let the gun fire itself", meaning to go easy on the trigger. Become accurate first, and work on speed later. I have three M&P pistols, a 40c 357 SIG conversion, a Shield 45, and a 1.0 Shield 9 with nearly 30,000 rounds between them. They all shoot best with the combat hold sight picture. As to 9mm ammo, after trying many types, I've found that Winchester NATO 124g rounds are easily the most accurate ones I shoot from my Shield 9.

Enjoy your new Equalizer!
 
I have your answer...

Holosun EPS Carry. :D
 

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Mike-AK said:
Holosun EPS Carry. :D
Click to expand...

Actually looking at a HOLOSUN HS407K X2 or Viridian RFX Green Dot for some time in the future, but I'd like to work out this problem first whether it is me, the ammo, or the pistol.
 
Dry fire. Watch your front sight -- really focus. You will see it dip just as the shot breaks. Modify grip and trigger finger position as needed to keep your front sight where it needs to be.
 
GFetteplace said:
Actually looking at a HOLOSUN HS407K X2 or Viridian RFX Green Dot for some time in the future, but I'd like to work out this problem first whether it is me, the ammo, or the pistol.
Click to expand...

Got it. I have 507K’s on my M&P 5.7 and M&P 22 Magnum, but I carry the Equalizer IWB and prefer the closed emitter design of the EPS Carry for that. Nothing wrong with the 407K or 507K though. They are excellent.
 
Being that low at that range, it ain't the sights or your sight picture. It's your trigger manipulation.
 
The "combat sight picture" has been mentioned here, as it has many other times. That refers to where the dots on the sights line up so far as vertical shot placement is concerned.

Frankly, I've got severe doubts any gun is set up that way. The dots got started as a quick and dirty sight reference to improve visibility of black sights in some conditions. Recycling a phrase: it's combat accurate/acceptable for those conditions. Most guns are coming out of the factory are sighted in the conventional manner, with the ammunition most commonly used in that caliber. Note that last phrase.

However, where the bullet lands vertically is affected by: your trigger press, the strength of your grip and the ammunition. I've got a 5906 that's been to many schools and it shoots pretty much to the sights as they came from the factory with 115 gr & 124 gr 9 mm ammo of either standard or +P versions. However, when it was the new guy on the block, I was gifted with a couple of boxes of Federal Hydra Shok 147 gr. ammo. Interesting stuff, probably the most accurate 9 mm ammo I've ever shot. From sitting I could put 5 rounds in one ragged hole at 25 yards (Oh to have those eyes back!). However, the hole was right smack where the white dot on the front sight was. I'm not sure if that was my hold or just where the bullets flight took it.
Made it a great choice for use at night where the front tritium insert might be my front sight.
 
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WR Moore said:
The "combat sight picture" has been mentioned here, as it has many other times. That refers to where the dots on the sights line up so far as vertical shot placement is concerned.

Frankly, I've got severe doubts any gun is set up that way. The dots got started as a quick and dirty sight reference to improve visibility of black sights in some conditions. Recycling a phrase: it's combat accurate/acceptable for those conditions. Most guns are coming out of the factory are sighted in the conventional manner, with the ammunition most commonly used in that caliber. Note that last phrase.
<snip>
Click to expand...

Sig's FAQ states:

All SIG SAUER production duty/combat pistols are set up to use a “combat” sight picture. This is where the front sight completely covers the bullseye of the target. Using a six o’clock (“pumpkin on a post”) or center mass (“half’n’half”) sight picture will result in low impact. SIG SAUER, Inc sights in all non-sporting and non-target pistols for 2 inch groupings @ 10 yards. <snip>"

Bullet weight and chamber pressures do affect POI but the impact change is pretty minimal at SD distances in my experience.

If his issue was due to improper sight picture, that's fairly easy to fix. If it's recoil anticipation, poor trigger control, poor grip, etc., that can take a bit more effort to correct.

Still, lot's of good suggestions here.
 
OP, perhaps have another shooter try the gun as well to help rule out any possible mechanical concerns.
I too think it is in form and process, when I started with a compact 9 i was terrible. A good range officer worked with me to get me on track, gun was fine. I may add that when I was getting my form and grip nailed down I kept the targets closer, and then moved them out to the 7-10 yard range. Helps keep frustration out of it while you get your group tighter and consistent.
 
I have both a Ruger LC9S Pro and Sig P365 and both have the sights regulated for 147 grain ammo. However I use very firm recoil management so I do tend to shoot a bit lower than someone with a more relaxed style of recoil control. Point is ammo can make a difference. However 6 inches at 7 yards is more than what a lighter bullet will produce. Chances are that you've developed a Push Flinch and as Arthritis sets in with age that can lead to pushing off in anticipation of the pain that recoil can produce. One easy way to test for this is to mix a snap cap into your range loads. As soon as you pull the trigger on a snap cap you will have a clear demonstration of any flinch you may have developed.
 
Bench rest, combat sight picture, slowly squeeze the trigger so that you cannot anticipate the shot, ignore the "bang", but keep your eye on the front sight through the entire process.
If the sight didn't move and it hits low, it's the gun.
Otherwise it's the shooter.
Also, what Ranger 17 said.
I had a new 1911 years ago that shot low at 50'.
Handed it to a buddy who shot the X out of a bullseye target.
Go figure what the issue was.
 
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My EZ9 shoots low. S&W said don't care, you bought it it's yours. Granted, it'll hit a human body, may in the nuts. Combat sight my red rump. Poor quality. A gun should shoot to the sights.
 
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