Just saw the S&W is now putting the 40 out in a Metal M&P. Next stop, 45 M&P Metal. Now we just need them to put the FPC out in 40 and 45.

40sw been alive for CC for me since 'late 1990 and have 2 m&p's in 40sw but nooo metal in my future . My metal CC is a alloy frame 1911 commander . ha

The distributor for my local shop I go to has several S&W polly 40s in stock and has had them for quite a while.

Glad to see they are coming out with a metal one now.

I'm done with M&P's for now until they get their QC together (not holding my breath), but that metal 40 is definitely cool and tempting.

It is to me.
When the .40 first came out, I thought I would love it. I bought a SW40VE full size and a Kahr P-40 for EDC. Just didn't like the snappy-ness of the recoil. This is me and I know others love the .40 but I have a Shield .45 that I love shooting and a Shield 9 that just seems to fit all my needs.

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Shield 45, SW40VE, 586, 1000

My wife loves her Shield 2.0 in 40. Shooting it side-by-side with my Shield 45 I really can't tell much difference BUT I use 230 grain 45s standard velocity and she uses 180 grain standard velocity. Designer rounds might change things.

All things equal, Bigger is better. It is simply physics.

That's neat, although I really don't care much for the metal M&Ps, excellent news for those who do though.

I'd like to say that it would have made more sense for S&W to revive the Model 4003 and 4013, but the masses have spoken and apparently folks prefer a consistently mediocre trigger pull to a good Double Action followed by a great Single Action trigger.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

I believe it was the recoil-sensitive 9mm wimps who were responsible for pushing that poppycock.

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213th FBINA

There are still a lot of trainers that preach the "any caliber that starts with 4". My training in Cali listed "stops" what ever that is starting with 9 then 40 then 45 being best. Don't know but I can give my wife any of my 9's and she shoots them just fine. 40 is too snappy for both her and my 31 YO son.

Any chance you could provide a link with this info?

Thanks

Each to their own but I've never understood complaints about the .40 being too "snappy".
I'd been carrying for 30 years before I ever bought a 9mm, and that just because I wanted a pocket pistol.

I started out on a .357 Magnum revolver, to 1911 .45, and then to various .40's, 10mm's and .357 Sigs.

These days I carry a .357 Sig, 10mm, and sometimes a 9mm depending on the situation.

Hardly a scientific study, but I have a few friends who carry .40 platforms when in the non-urban areas. They feel the caliber works for their anticipated needs.

My .40 Shield is my fav CC gun.

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The best gun/caliber is the one you can shoot well, fast, and accurately. I like all calibers as long as they come out of a S&W, just sayin. People that make too much about the caliber are probably stuck in a 2-D world.

Not sure why this went to a bear chewing on your leg. Started this thread to say that the 40 was not dead not talking about the best bear gun.

It isn't dead and it probably isn't going away here in America, at least for a long time. It IS on its way to becoming a niche caliber though, which is fine. For most people the 9mm does everything needed. That's all.

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"Hile, gunslinger."

I thought that the original intent for the 40 was to have a "4" caliber that would be greater than the 7-8 round mag (e.g., 45 ACP in a 1911) -- that was "double stackable" (14+).

When the 40 S&W first came out it struck me as being a modern version of the old 38/40, ballistic wise. I have a few 40 S&Ws and it's my preferred caliber if I'm not carrying a 380 or J frame sized revolver.

That was a happy side effect, but 40 S&W came about because the FBI 10mm load was down loaded enough that the performance could be replicated in a shorter case that fit in smaller 9mm frames.

Though it's commonly repeated that the FBI agents couldn't handle 10mm so they had to create .40 S&W, the FBI specified the '10mm lite' loads before it was ever issued to agents. In spite of people diminishing those rounds as glorified .40 S&W, period JHP like Federal Hydra Shok still performed well in gel tests.

Everyone I have ever met in this life who has said that caliber matters, has never been in a gun fight.

Think about that for a minute.

An ex US marine ( not that that has anytihng to do with it) was hit 15 times with a 45 from his girlfriends ex, and was still able to return fire, and lived to tell about it.

Does that mean we all need to go to a bigger caliber?

https://youtu.be/vViw80If73k

Unlike Glock .40s that were originally a 9mm design, the semi automatic M&P pistols were actually designed for .40S&W and released in that caliber before the 9mms were released.

.40 S&W is an excellent duty caliber.

100% concur--Glock's race to get a model in 40 S&W out (before the 4006 even went on sale) was a great marketing move, but it damaged the reputation of the caliber as snappy and even dangerous (thanks to all those "kaboom" incidents in Glock 22s & 23s). Funny how it took Glock until Gen 5 for them to build a pistol actually engineered for 40 S&W, and it's a much better shooter despite the slight weight gain. (Don't take my word for it, go watch Hickok45's review of the G23 Gen5). Nobody who shot a 4006 ever called a 40 "snappy" or "too much."

So, is it a great caliber? Heck yeah! So is 9mm... so is 357 Mag... so is 45 ACP... so is 38 Spl... so is...

Agree that it's cool, but honestly I'm not sure it's any better than the poly guns. I'm a huge 40 S&W fan and lifelong Smith auto shooter, with several M&P's in 40. After shooting both the metal and poly M&Ps back-to-back, I think there's no advantage to the aluminum framed models over the polymer. The recoil impulse is sharper in the aluminum frame M&P Metal models, with no real gain in performance, all at the same general weight-class.

Now, if Smith were to ever make a steel framed M&P, it would be an absolute beast for speed and competition, and it would soak up higher-recoil ammo easier than either the poly or aluminum frames out now. Maybe someday...

I knew a cop who switched from a 9mm (P228, IIRC) to a .45 ACP after the lack of immediate effect when he shot an armed robber holding up a liquor store.

He switched to a SIG P245, which was probably a worse choice given the 6 round magazine and 3.9" barrel that would probably give unreliable expansion with the Winchester Ranger Bonded 230 gr that he was issued.

There's no way that 40 S&W will die. There's way too many guns in circulation that are chambered in 40 S&W and there's no shortage of ammo companies who are happy to meet the demand for ammo. With the abundance of ammo as well as the widespread popularity of 40 S&W, gun makers will continue to offer guns chambered in 40 S&W.

Many years ago I purchased a Sig 229 in .40 in what they call the DAK version. The gun has enough weight that I have never noticed it to be "snappy" or hard to handle at all. It stays loaded with 165 grain Winchester SXT's. I load Berry 165 grain TC plated bullets for it for practice. With a little bit of practice you can shoot double and triple taps fairly quickly and with very tight groups with the 6 1/2" trigger it has. The .40 fits this platform very well and can be shot well with a little bit of practice.
Jim

Yea he survived but what was the ammo used . Surely not 230gr of hst or ranger t series !

If folks here are not capable of handling a 40sw they maybe better off with standard pressure 9mm or 380 or a rime fire cartridge . If they don't like a s&w or m&p model move on to what they do like .

MY wife never fired a handgun until our first date when we were 24 or 25 years old and that was a 4x4 club weekend trip in the big cypress and after spending some time with my Colt Huntsman she tried my DW 15-2 revolver in 357mag with some wad cutter loads to start with up to an average 158gr loads and she liked it . My future wife went out and bought her own DW 15-2 6" 357mag a couple weeks later .

She also has lots of trigger time with my 40sw's and 45acp 1911's over the years but she stands 5-2 and is a small built lady but her heads right . It did take a few years after I started to CC before she did but that was more about her size and what she was comfortable with CC'n. Now at 68 my wife no longer wants to shoot her my 40 or 45 and prefers her kimber ultra 9mm or p365xl and she has a 380 for garter belt carry when a dress is needed .

When my grandson was 9 years old he had shooting my wifes m&p 4.25 core 9mm for some time and wanted to shoot the kahr tp40 I was CC'n at the time . It was filled with underwood 155gr 1300fps ammo . So I gave him one round in the mag and side if you can rack it give it a try and keep it held down range he could have more rounds to fire . He did and when he fired it caused him to take a step back but he had a big grin on his face so a full mag was handed to him and he changed his stance to deal with the snappier load and rang a 10" steel plate at 15 yards with every shot with a big ole grin .

I find what a person can shoot well has more to do with over coming any fears they may have starting with a 22lr and work up over time to larger calibers but you still need to know whats going on in there head . A persons physical size can have more to do with the size of there CC handgun and how well they handle a cartridge for CC . My wife hated a freinds CW40 kahr but my full grip kahr 4" TP40 well. Same goes for the standard sig P365 , my wife did not like it but the XL model she wanted. I don't like smaller handguns no matter if in 22lr up to 45 as I carry a full size 40sw or 45 . But there may be the day I want a 9mm for carry and have a 4" compact with dot optic on it but only time and age will tell .

Yeah that must be the reason

If the shooter only had those magical hst's or ranger T series bullets the outcome would have definitely been different, oh yeah definitely !

One shot would have just exploded the whole entire body!

I personally still love the .40S&W. And while I mainly carry .45s I still own and often shoot my 3rd Gen collection, which consists of more .40s than 9s.

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Find a way or make one.

Yes, the P229 .40 DAK is a fine pistol.
I got an excellent condition police trade-in off of Gunbroker a couple of years ago.
Though I soon switched the barrel to an OEM .357 Sig because I like that round.
I carry Underwood .357 Sig XTP JHP for defense and have confidence in them.

I've liked the .40 since it was very first created and think its the perfect balance of power, capacity, and recoil for self defense. The funny thing is I have owned several .40s but don't currently have one. I was never a 9mm fan but when ammo got expensive the 9mm was still pretty cheap and I acquired four of them. I do own a M&P 4" 10mm which is currently my favorite gun to shoot out of my 17 handguns.

I too have a Sig P229, it's awesome. I also love my Sig P224!

Okay, everyone either loves the 40 or hates it. Who is excited that S&W is making it in the new metal. If it is anything like the Metal 9, it will be a great gun. I am just waiting with baited breath that they will make it and the FPC in 45. I think they would be short sighted to not make the FPC and Response in 40 and 45. Based upon the success of the 9, I would have to imagine that they are already in the works.

The only problem I see is trying to convince my PLUS1 that I absolutely positively gotta have one.

Yep...and the 10mm-recoil-fearing dainty wrist crowd that the feds hired is why .40 was created. Not complaining...I'm a big fan of .40 (but like 10mm much better)

Agreed, but my problem with 10mm is that the vast majority of 10mm ammo is not loaded to 10mm spec, and instead appears to be loaded to 40 S&W spec. It's the same projectile after all, however you end up paying a premium because it's labeled as 10mm.

Then, with the few lines of ammo that actually are loaded to full 10mm spec, the majority of 10mm guns on the market have questionable reliability with those cartridges.

Exactly why i load my own for the 610-2. In reality, the modern boxed 10mm is neutered when compared to the good old stuff

Underwood has some good 10mm loads.

I have a XD40 in my safe. Nice gun.


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RudyN
NRA Patron Life Member

For a handgun your going to carry the 40sw is a great choice with todays ammo choices . The 10mm may be able to pack more punch but it its still not a gar O teed one shot man stopper .

I harvested deer for camp meat with a couple 4" and 4.25" 40sw handguns most all the hunters are in camp and shoot thru 16 to 17" of deer top thru bottom with a underwood 155gr gold dot load with very
good tissue damage . I also an old revolver hunter that liked one of several 170gr sp bullets at 1400fps for deer 180swc hc at a slower 1200 fps for hogs . But I have made some ammo changes in the last few years for carry needs . I'm 68 now and I know longer carry those hotter 40sw loads for defensive needs as there are a few standard pressure 180gr hp bullets that cover or exceed needs for expansion and penetration . Plus I know I have faster spit times with a standard pressure 40sw that will expand to .70 + than I do with the hot 40sw ammo or most of todays 10mm ammo ,

One of my carry handgins is a lw commander in 45 and I like the grip and reach of a 1911 with thin grips but some 10mm poly pistols pistols are not as comfortable in my hand as a shorter reach for the 40sw versions .

hey to 10mm is today hot got a have cartridges for many . Good for those folks but for many others its going to be a 40sw or even a 9mm so deal with it like a adult .

For a newer handgun hunter the 10mm can do real well with some 200 gr loads but still its not as good as 41 mag and many larger cartridges in handguns ether .

The .40 is dead to me. I much prefer the 10mm, heck of a round…

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NRA Life Member

And does so in a package that gives you a dozen shots. Thanks for supporting a very serviceable cartridge. 44 Special should be the standard all others attain for.

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Front sight and squeeze

Bunch of wana-be gunfighters and ballistics experts here in this thread.

I feel so honored

Glad to see the 40 still going. A while back one of the gun rags predicted the demise of the 40 and 357 Sig among a couple others. Both sound like great rounds to me.

This is the shooting world, rounds very rarely actually die. Ammo and new guns get scarce for it, but they don't disappear. .41 magnum is a good example, .32 H&R (it's back too), .22 short are all examples.

It was my understanding that a lot of manufacturers where prioritizing 9mm production due to demand. SIG has been offering .40 conversion kit for the P320 off and on for a while.

They added steel to the polymer frames because of cops overtorquing flashlights on Gen 3 Glocks and damaging light rails and/or causing functioning issues due to frame flex (more on that later).

I would lean towards steel frames for ultimate durability, but design is important too. Colt had to redesign the Delta Elite frames for 10mm after breakage issues. That shouldn't be too much of a surprise given the use of a 37,500 psi cartridge in frame designed for a 21,000 psi cartridge.

Polymer vs aluminum, the failure modes are different. I've seen more polymer frames with physical impact damage, but I've heard more reports of aluminum frames cracking from high round counts.

When it comes to user induced malfunctions, I've seen more people have limp wrist malfunctions with Gen 3/4 Glocks than metal framed pistols or M&P and P320 pistols. My theory on that is the lighter, thinner, less reinforced Glock frames allow more frame flex under recoil.

I've also seen more Glocks with light strike problems due to improper cleaning (lube/bore cleaner in striker channel) than other pistols, but that's more of a striker vs hammer thing.

They can all put holes in people at the end of the day.

I like the 40. I bought a Springfield Officers Model size 1911 in 40 when they were on sale a year or two ago. I like it. I've had a 40 since early Glock Gen 2, Both a 27 and a 23. I just didn't like the feel of the 27 in my hand. The 23 I liked and carried it off duty a lot for quite a few years. The wife took the 27 as it fit her smaller hands better although she has good size hands for a woman.

Neither one of us ever noticed the "snappy 40" thing or found recoil unpleasant in any way. Never could figure that complaint out. I usually carry my Hellcat now days. It's just too easy to carry in my lazy retirement, plus it has a safety which I like. Then there's that ammo cost thing. 9mm is just much more affordable to shoot.

If they came out with a metal 40 I don't think I'd be interested. I'm not a collector, and it wouldn't be a collector item in my lifetime and I already have plenty of carry guns. I need to give some to my son already. Not that I wouldn't like a new gun just because.

I haven't even thought about my XDs in .45. And I always liked that gun. Other than church security duty it carries enough ammo (spare mag) for personal protection and it's thin and flat. Plus that extra safety. I found recoil quite tollerable and it has that nice 45 thump. /ramble

.40 S&W is a fantastic round that has simply fallen out of favor. Some — namely those who irrationally hate the cartridge — insis that this means that it's dead and soon to fade away entirely, as if getting dropped by the LEOs and the market getting flooded with inexpensive police trade-ins serves as proof of this. Meanwhile, the same thing happened with .38 Special/.357 Magnum before it, yet after all the sales of police trade-ins dried up, the cartridges remained popular.

Another good example, perhaps even better yet would be .45 Colt. The cartridge that was really only in military/LE service for about 10 years, yet remains in production along with firearms chambered for it. So yeah, .40 S&W isn't going anywhere, no matter how badly haters wish it would.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

I wanna LIKE this post again.

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S&W Accumulator

You could also say the 40 was developed for the recoil sensitive wimps who couldn't handle the 10mm.

The FBI showed us that.

Anyway 40 is not going anywhere for a long time, maybe never.

Especially with the resurgence of the 10mm that uses the same projectiles.

I would love to see 40 come back around like it used to be though.

Would also love to see some 2011's in the caliber.