Hey guys, picked up an M&P 10 this past Wednesday. Took it to the range yesterday and it was all over the place with Privi Partisan PPU 145gr FMJ. Granted I know it's not the best ammo but was all I had. Running a Burris 4.5-14 in a pepr mount. Also installed a geiselle trigger. Could not get it to hold a decent group at all. Upon inspection of the bore, directly under the markings on the barrel, you can see where the stamping distorted the inside of the bore. So now waiting on S&W to send a label.

Rifles are a lot like computers - garbage in, garbage out. Try some other ammunition after checking to see if everything is tight. If the scope is new, you might want to try another scope that is a known entity.

What on earth did they use to stamp the barrel????

Do they use a 30 ton press, or a strike jig and a stamp.....?

So what is this non decent group you got? I would guess a 4-5" group at 100 with it? since mine splatters at 2" or so at 50!
Mine does not like light rounds. I am going 168-180 next. That trigger you spent on will not help you here!

It's pretty pronounced. The customer service rep said this was the first he has heard of it. I wonder how many others have the same issue but yet to discover it.

Lets see photos...or I ain't buying into this post, at least not when this is the OPs 3rd post in the Forum, absent any proof.

vfin

Yeah 4-6" groups were the norm. It's unfortunate as most of the cheaper ammo is 308. Oh well, I'm set on selling it once it comes back from repair because of the proprietary barrel and BCG. Already purchased everything but the rail to build up another one, this time with a 1/11" twist. Hopefully it will do much better.

The gun is what it is, but my basic thoughts on it are a tradeoff. You got a pencil barrel at mid length and cheap ammo to work with you get what you get. That **** just seems to fly everywhere. Some will not even cycle the gun.

I ran some Monarch(PPU) 150 through mine and it was iffy. The Rem 150 corelock ran better, but not great. We are still at 2-4 in groups here.

Better bigger bullets are more stable, and the only way I see settling one into a decent pattern. I will say this again, a 6" group at 300 is still a dead hog! And a decent purpose for a AR platform carbine with a light barrel.

I shall try to insert the info from my other thread that is very informative! Credits to Appiccola!


Got back from the range this morning. Actually had some folks show up with different types of ammo to try the rifle. The only problem, was this particular range does not allow any NATO/foreign ball ammo whatsoever.

Recap of the rounds tried:

1) Hornady 110 grain TAP FPD .308, 3165 fps adv. MV - this round cycled smoothly. The recoil from this round is almost non-existent for super sonic ammo ... a little harder than .22lr but lighter than NATO 5.56. Accuracy at 100 yards was much better than Federal AE 168 grain OTM. The worst shooter to try it had a 3/4" group.

2) Corbon 185 grain Performance Match FMJ-RBT Subsonic .308, 1000 fps adv MV - just to clarify, I have to change the buffer and spring to a 3oz buffer with a reduced power AR15 spring and open the gas block 100% to cycle the ammo.

3) Herters 180 grain SP .308, 2756 adv MV - This ammo had issues with the feed ramp. I was told that this is a foreign made house brand for Cabellas. The bullet has a very blunt, almost flat nose that would not follow the feed ramp properly during semi-auto firing. The bullet is probably specifically for bolt rifles. All 3 shooters had erratic 3" to 5" groups with strays. The fella that brought them did not recommend them highly either.

4) Remington 150 grain Core-Lokt Ultra, 2820 fps adv MV - cycled fine. 3 different people tried, but could not get better than a 2" group with the ammo.

5) Barnes 168 grain VOR-TX .308, 2680 fps adv MV - cycled fine. Everyone shot groups of 1" or less.

6) Remington 165 grain Premier Scirroco Bonded, 2700 fps adv MV - cycled fine. Worst shot group with this ammo was approx. 1.25" ... the best was about 3/4".

7) American Eagle 168 grain OTM .308, 2650 fps adv MV - cycled well. Worst shooter had a approx. 1.5" group, best shooter was just under 1".

I got the same results (6" at 50m) and saw the same indentation into the bore. Just haven't had time to talk to s&w. Let me what kind of hassles you get from them.

And what were you using for ammo? I am telling you some of that **** just flies where it wants, forget the gun!

I am interested!

And I could care less if you buy into my post. It doesn't hurt my feelings, not even the slightest. I don't have a bore scope or I could get you pictures. I've already remedied the problem and contacted S&W before even making this post. I only posted my findings for others to check their barrels to see how big an issue this is, and one person has already said they have the same thing going on in their barrel. So move along, nothing to see here.

I understand the effects of bullet weights vs barrel twist. And I wasn't expecting a miracle group with Privi but I was hoping it would do better than it did. Oh well, like I said, this one will be sold and I'm building up a 308ar with a 1/11" twist. Hopefully I'll have better luck

I find a lot of people that buy a new gun, never read the manual, buy the cheapest ammo on the shelf and head to the range with-out even cleaning the storage lube off and re-lubing the weapon as stated in the manual. Then complain about the weapon not functioning correctly. Let alone NOT even going through any break-in period firing of the weapon...

....amazing.

__________________
THIS WE'LL DEFEND ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

You're going to sell the M&P-10 and build another rifle in hopes it will shoot Privi ammo accurately??

My M&P10 is absolutely & beyond any doubt--> Puuuurfect !!!

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

vfin <---doesn't use garbage in, garbage out AMMO.

These are from today at the range, 100 yds. with a 22 mph cross wind. The top two and the bottom left are M80 ball, the bottom right is Federal 168 gr. Match.

100 yards

Close-up of the Federal 168 gr. Match

close-up

I did re- inspect my barrel today, yet I found no issues. Mine still sucks with cheap ammo, and although I have got some better stuff to try I have not used it yet.

Seems there are a few folk getting great results, but most are using a free float, and I am not there as yet. I may, but I wish I had better before and after info! I think it may do 1.5 or less without free float and if so I may ride that horse for a while.

Negative. I'm building another with a 1/11" twist with hopes that it will shoot lighter bullets better, not necessarily with privi. I understand garbage in garbage out. Granted I didn't test any other light 308 rnds but accuracy with the light bullets wasn't the main reason for me to sell the M&P. The proprietary barrel nut and barrel extension is. Not S&W's fault, I should have done more research on my end. Oh well. You live you learn.

As much as I like S&W and want a .308 caliber AR, they will not be my first choice because of the proprietary parts. I realize all .308 AR's are proprietary, but S&W is worse than most.

Good luck on your quest.

Try different ammo. Cheap doesn't automatically mean bad. Identical guns will shoot differently with identical ammo. My buddy's Remington 700 308 shoots better with cheaper ammo. The cheaper the ammo the more accurate it is. My own bolt actions do ok with cheap ammo. They don't do .5 moa but I'm not expecting that. Usually 2 and under, which I'm fine with.

Another friend has a Mauser and it's good with fmj. As soon as you put in hunting loads he can't even hit the paper

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I suggest everyone buy and then read:

THE ULTIMATE SNIPER Updated & Expanded Version from Paladin Press, Author Major John L. Plaster, USAR (RET).

The Major suggests the use of (let's talk Federal GoldMedal MatchKing 175gr FMJBT or M118 (LR) 175gr as examples), just one type of ammunition. Also suggesting to never use more than two (2) types in order to maintain accuracy, predictability and so on and so forth.

Jumping all over the place to buy what's "On Sale" or "Cheap" is ok if you don't care about accuracy and ya just wanna hit paper after hearing a big bang, but if ya do care about precision shooting, buy the good stuff and you'll quickly see lasting positive results.

Additionally, shooting expensive ammunition kinda forces you to improve technique so as not to waste ammo, and therefore you'll probably find yourself shooting & wasting less with more accurate hits. Remember, if ya consider each single shot like it's the shot to save your life, you'll soon be prouder of your results.

Jus sayin !

vfin

I buy the "good stuff" mostly for the reload ability of the brass.

__________________
THIS WE'LL DEFEND ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

If you are going to go to all that trouble, then why not just spend $400 LESS and get a much more accurate bolt rifle?? For $600...... there are a half dozen rifles at least which can deliver 1MOA or less, with little effort.

Any 308 semi, with a short barrel, not free-floated and with a stock trigger is most likely going to be a 2MOA rifle, regardless of ammo. With a good optic, you can wind it in to near MOA, but this style of rifle........ it's really not meant to be a bench rifle. And few- very few can take the AR10 platform and get anywhere near 1MOA standing.

Of my current rifles, (I'll stick to 16" barrel rifles) they are giving up about 2 MOA. The one with a 6x optic can give up 1.25MOA with hunting ammo. Funny thing, shooting offhand, I can get the same results with Wolf/WPA as I can with NATO ammo, as well as Federal hunting ammo. When I go prone, I see improvement in all ammo types, and the better ammo starts to show an advantage.

And then I will drag out a 27 year old model 700ADL, with a simple 3x9 optic and put 5 regular hunting rounds into a silver dollar at 150yds.

As was so eloquently put by Cope...... a 6" group at 300yds is STILL a dead hog. So very true.

But that wouldn't be nearly as much fun

Getting to shoot 4 times as much is not as fun??

If I buy a 308 bolt, rifle and scope for $650.... I have 400 left to buy ammo- any ammo I desire, just to be equal to the price of any 308AR, rifle alone.... ie a black golf club until I can feed it.

That's a LOT of range time.

It's my same rationale for shooting Wolf vs. xm855 for active shooting training or kicking the snot out of pumpkins. I can shoot 2 Wolf rounds for every Federal round. A bit less accurate, and a bit less powerful.

But a lot more shooting opportunities!

He He, thanks for the credit Rojo!


Cool Factor is high on these carbines, but you are once again correct!

Ok, here you go, I would still prefer to pee through a hose than a straw! A real rifle has its advantages!

I have allways wanted a couple more inches!

My M&P 10, is the LE model. I shoot Hornady TAP 168 gr. A-Max Boat Tail rounds only. The Nikon M-308 scope (Nikoplex reticle) has given me a 1.25 group at 100 yards. Haven't had a opportunity to check out 200 yards yet. Consistent quality ammunition use is the only way to go.

It's like Ozzy said some odd 35 years ago: "Wine is fine, but whiskey's quicker......"

A couple shots of tequila is fine and all, but yeah, a 6 pack on a hot day is a lot better.

And if we are looking into whether size matters...... I'd rather be a short barreled 50 cal rather than a 24" barreled 22.

If my gun had a name...... It'd be 'Blunderbuss'!!!!!!!!

I'm so glad I'm in not having any problems with mine. I will say when I went from Fiocchi to Lake City I had to sight it back in. Both were 150 grn fmj but didn't hit the same spot on the target. I went today and had to sight it in again because I changed scopes and was using Lake City ammo only. Once I got it dialed in I was shooting 2" groups at 100 yrds with a 4x scope. I can live with that .

nice groups!! I like the free-floated barrel and "tank" brake too!

I really appreciate some one that spends their own $$ and time and cares enough for fellow shooters to take notes and post them. Just thought I would thank you-this info is valuable to me and I appreciate it! Semper Fidelis!!!

I wasn't talking about someone who's spending above their budget. I was assuming that someone who could afford to shoot the automatic would/could have more fun with it

Bang,bang, bang,bang, bang! Ten bucks plus range fee, done for now!

Ha!

Try some good factory ammo and check your scope mounts for torque spec and proper alignment.

my M&P 10 likes Buffalo Bore Sniper .308 .175gr and .165 Hornady SST ( tried both after seeing them on a YouTube m&p 10 review. I was able to nearly duplicate his groups (1/2") @ 100y using a different optic than he used (Nikon m-308 BDC mil-dot mounted via m308 mount w/20 MOA slope). The pencil barrel likes HEAVY ROUNDS. Well, at least mine does! Btw he was using a leupold HAMR for whomever might be interested. High end an 2x+ the price of the Nikon!

Wow; This is a new one on me!!! For the life of me (& that's a long time), I can't figure out how you'd be seeing an impression of the barrel stamping inside the bore??? I know the Big Ten barrels aren't the thickest ever made, but my gosh; Think what it would take to literally compress that much 4140 steel to such a degree. Unless they had some type of mandrel inside the bore when they did it, I'd expect that much force to crush the bore into an oval first. Can you run a bore scope down it and take some pictures?? I'd sure like to see what your talking about. From a machinist's perspective this has gotta' be seen to be believed. You gotta be see'in something else inside there.

It's a commonly known that too much pressure when stamping barrels can distort the bore. Over torquing a muzzle also distorts the bore

OR: You could just reload your own, and shoot three custom designed ACCURATE rounds for every single Federal GMM round.

Mistwolf,
I stand corrected. I went back and re-read OP's post. As you say, He did state that the bore was "distorted" under the stamping. As said in my previous post, I can understand how the bore could be made "Oval", Out-of-Round, or as you both call it, "distorted". Somehow, I previously interpreted his comments to mean that he could see the barrel stamping on the inside of the bore. Got to admit, that would be some Heavy Stamping.

LOL! Just don't talk about it where the California pols can hear. They'll look into it as new bullet engraving technology so the cops will know what firearm it was fired from

If you run a patch through the barrel, does it have a tight spot right there?

How good is scope mount?

Sounds like it's time to contact S&W

Please keep us updated on what you find out . I would like to know if you can feel the tight spot with a patch also. Interesting post.

__________________
Hue 68 noli me tangere

Considering that the bore is .30", and that ding equals about .08"- I'd say heck yes that is enough to keep you from grinding the shots tighter than 2MOA. Time to call S&W.

Were it a different type of flaw in the rifling, I might be inclined to argue against you, if for nothing more than the sake of argument. But you are spot-on. That's enough to change things a bit.

(EDIT) Last ditch resort, get a friend who is a known good shooter to run the rifle for a session, and see where he shakes out. If he is noticeably improved over you? Then you might need to practice more with the AR platform rifles. (Some just don't really jive well with them; apples shooting oranges type of thing.) But I will bet a cheeseburger he's also all over the place.

Screenshot_2014-07-24-18-03-06.jpg

Mine is spot on. I've only owned it for 2 years and probably........1,500 rounds mostly federal XM80CL. No accuracy issues at all. I love this frigging rifle! I just left my range. Using iron sights at 50 yards is spot on then I put my scope back on ( quick detach setup) and it held zero... I couldn't be happier with this rifle.

My friend had issues with accuracy, turned out to be a simple fix. The barrel nut was finger loose!
Sometimes the simplest things are worth checking first.

Mine has the exact same issues. Cleaning it today it was very noticeable with the naked eye that there is barrel damage under the stamp. I sent an email and received an email saying it could be 5 days before a reply.

Okay, so I just got the rifle back a couple of days ago.
I had sent it in for re-barreling middle of last month.
They replaced barrel and shot it for accuracy. When I talked to the customer support rep, they couldn't give me any details.

The stamp is noticeably much shallower and the bore is nicely rifled with no visible defects.

I'm itching to take it out now that I have a SS10x42 & bobro mount that I bought while waiting for the repairs.

OK then, when you receive yours back, I will be interested in taking this off your hands

PM Me please

I purchased the heavy barrel .308 without flash hider. I've fired a lot of different ammo through mine with little or no problems. When shooting the cheap Herters from Cablea's I usually have 1 FTF in every 50-60 rounds and that's it. Mine is sighted in with Hornady 150gr InterLock SP Whitetail rounds and it shoots GREAT.

Well, I finally had a chance to get out and fire off a couple of project guns last weekend after freefloating the big 10 and finding a loose barrel nut, thought I was home free on that one.

Seema I was highly disappointed at the results as I managed same or better groups with my old Colt SP1 with the open sights and a cheap red dot than the 10!!!

Just me and the rangemaster there at end of day, I was telling him the story. He said "can I try it?" Sure, I said, pulled it out of the truck again and loaded him up a ten round mag.

Now this kid is not stupid, he is about 25 yr old ex marine competition shooter, on the bench, bagged it up, set the scope, got comfortable.

After 6 rounds he just cleared the gun, handed to me and smiled, (at 100 I cannot see the hits, but he can with the 14x scope), grins and says "It's not you!" And this was with good ammo.

Ok, lemmie look, so I did, just another 6" group! Yep!

So, I have now changed the scope and mount, just to eliminate all variables. I figure a Nikon 3x9 on P series mount should do at 100. We shall see next weekend if possible.

Next step, return to factory! As this is becoming non-fun!