If possible we should sticky this thread.

Now with the threads melonite over chrome lined M-4 barrels, I feel we should see what's what. So I found this US Army post.

The U.S. Army reported the Mean-Time-Between-Failures (MTBF) for M16A2/M4/M4A1 barrels is 9600 rounds. These are chrome lined barrels with a 1:7 twist made out of 4150 steel (just like Bushmaster & Colt use), and they see full-auto use. Also note the military is using full power M193 & M855 rounds, while most commercial .223 runs 100 to 200 fps slower (with the same bullet weight). The 1:7 twist barrels do burn out quicker than the 1:9, especially under full auto stresses. For a chrome lined barrel on a semi-auto only rifle 20,000 rounds (or more) can be expected. [Warning: More civilian barrels are ruined to over (or careless) cleaning than to being "shot out".] Stainless barrels won't last as long, 4140 steel barrels wear longer than stainless; but not as long as the Colt 4150 barrels (w/o the chrome lined bores). nor as long as the chrome lined bores (given the same shooting)."

I like this idea, but would also like to ask for folks to post any failures, and at what round count. Be interesting to see how these Sports stack up.

I would start, but mine hasn't seen any range time yet...

2 Weeks,
600 rounds,
zero malfunctions

Also, if a malfunction exists, please elaborate.
Magazine type
Bad round
Bad primer etc.

2000+ rounds (Actually NOT ENOUGH!!!) mostly run & gun not just static target shooting. My S&W M&P Sport is flawless!! .

8 months, 5000rounds. Still tight grouping. No issues of any kind other than cheap Thermold mag induced FTF.

Few regular people have enough money for ammo to every put a significant round count through their ARs. Significant is not "1000 rounds with no malfunctions!", "200 rounds with no manfuctions!" as this thread will quickly become. 60,000 rounds were fired though participants in one stage of the military's M4 replacement program, and that was merely to collect data. The FN SCAR Light fired...a lot...of rounds in testing, making it the most heavily tested small arm ever, and was rejected by the proponent agency for purchase.

What do you consider a "failure" in a worn barrel? There are plenty of "shot out" M1 Garands and M1 Carbines out there still endangering X rings.

Sorry but your thread needs more thought and specificity IMO.

I've lost track of how many rounds.....gratuitous mag dumps. I feel sorry for those in Kalifornia.

This rifle is GTG.

Hmm you have a point I guess. But then again maybe something useful will come of this thread. Maybe everyone here can post their round count when the gun fails because of the lack of F/A and Dust cover specifically. I cant keep track of how many rounds I've shot. I've spilled a whole bottle of Hoppes 9 though and I think I did it on purpose. Its making everything fuzzy.............

The intent is two part, first, is to see at some point where and when our melonite barrels start having issues, if at all. Considering the initial post related to milspec barrels, which are used buy leading manufactures. It gives a kinda base line comparison. Second, to gather intel on malfunctions, and possibly over time see if there is specific wear based on higher round counts.
Keeping in mind this weapon is designed a little different, common AR platform tech is of little use.
It would be nice if this were kept to sport round count only.

Ok I'll volunteer. Everyone send me your 223/5.56 ammo and I'll shoot it till it fails. PM me your apprx. round count you are sending and I'll take off the appropriate stretch of work.

I think you have a point. I guess I am just looking for data for when I get handed the "Your rifle is a ***...it doesn't meet spec." line. It would be nice to have some type of real world data points showing actual round counts. I agree, we probably won't see someone post up 60,000 rounds, but maybe 12,000 in a year....And, if we see that these rifles aren't holding up after 5,000 rounds (which I doubt), we would also have the data showing that we should have all bought the Colt.

I couldn't let you go through all that trouble by yourself. I'll help!

cool cypher sounds good. That way I can tell my old lady " hey me and cypher wore out the S&W Sport. I'm spending $2500 of our savings on an M1A."

What is the source of the "US Army post". Because you're basing your thread around it, and that quote has a lot of problems with it. The Army doesn't care about 9600 rounds being fired, that doesn't trigger or a barrel change or something. M16s/M4 get shot and shot with no record or consideration of round count. I have participated in 1000 round per day courses, and that's not even very big. By your posted quote, the way you are trying to use it, that means I should have started expecting "failures" in my M4 after 10 days of shooting. That is simply not the case.

Also I'm still curious what you think a "failure" from a worn barrel is. Extreme round count stress is used to test the entire system. You're talking about the melonite 1:8 5R because it's the big buzzword for the Sport, but I would be more concerned about the bolt, the extractor, gas key staking, etc etc in regards to failure.

Dont laugh to hard but my round count is 42 yes thats right 42 big ones and it snowed again last night and is still snowing and I know she doesnt care but I'm not going shooting today!!

As I understand it, the military changes barrels, my cousin is a USMC armorer when it no longer fires accurately. So if we keep track of our rounds to where the rifle quits shooting accurately then we would know how long the barrel lasts against a chrome barrel...good luck!!

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Grover Oathkeeper

The post was from some army testing provision in 2000. To add, I'm also done with your tech dispute. If you shoot an M&P sport please share your real world data.

So whatever stats that "post" is based on, it ignores 10 years of war, 11 years of TDP updates, a magazine follower change, a service round change, and updated beliefs on training and maintenance.

Army posted, so I went with it. however if you can find reliable info in reguards to mil spec weapons, malfunction rates vs. round counts. Please post it.
I'm looking for m&p sport data, not your driven expression against an Army testing post.

Sarge, I wasnt trying to offend you, I have very high hopes for my sport, and have been looking for other gun manufacturers who use Melonite or whatever they want to call it. Glock calls it Tenifer and then there are a few others who use it, Adams Arms, Drakes Gun Works, Coal Creek Armory and it seems that there are more daily. If you look through the other forums this is becoming a heated discussion in more than one. I really want to know how it holds up and if it meets all the hype, actually have my fingers crossed. Like you I would like to see real data just like you quoted from the Army, please remember the Marine Corps doesnt get rid of anything until it is so worn out that it cant be repaired just one more time, and usually they repair it then and then issue it. LOL

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Grover Oathkeeper

My reply was pointed at dragon. For those of us with the sport, this info could be useful. Which is why id like to see comments from members about there m&p sport.
Would be nice if this board didn't turn into m-4carbine.net or others like it.

True that Dragon is on point. The BCG on the sport is quite nice actually compared to alot of other factory rifles, not too worried there.

With a doubt, this bcg was we'll assembled. Shot another 60 threw it this morning, doesn't look like my bolt gun is going to see much use from now on.

Only about 200 or so in 6 months of ownership. That's why the sport suits my needs perfectly as a fun range toy.

I usually shoot my Mosin Nagants when I head to range and have a higher rounds count thru those in fact.


Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk

Added another 140 rnds today. Only using fed. 5.56, XM193 55 gr.

800 rnds first month. at the price of ammo, the rest if my stuff will never get shot.

Well I have 1000 rounds of Fed 5.56x45 XM193F 55gr coming so my round count might go up. I have 400 rounds here already, I guess I could go do a little more shooting. But as a Jarhead I hate to waste bullets. Does that make me strange, got a ton of bullets but am afraid to go waste them. Might have to fend off a PDog invasion.

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Grover Oathkeeper

Smith & Wesson states that they have shot 170,000 rounds between two Sports (I think that is the correct AR) with no failures. I don't think any of us will be doing that anytime soon!

But I have about 1500 rds thru my Sport AR with no failures of any type. Wish I could shoot more!!!!

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gunfighter48
NRA Life Member

I seen that 170K statement published somewhere.

that's just not enough for a true durability/reliability test...... lol

Update.
One undiagnosed failure to fire, hammer did not cycle and lock back per member downrange. Using wolf ammo.

1300 rnds in 2 months, zero failures !
I sure enjoy shooting this gun.

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Light, Accurate,Versatile M&P

So far I have fired 240 rounds of federal 55 grain FMJ, 120 rounds of Federal 62 grain green tip FMJ, 240 rounds of PMC 55 grain FMJ. The only problem is the PMC is a dirtier round so I am sticking with Federal from now on.

Total so far is 600 rounds plus what im going to shoot tomorrow at the range 8 ).

BTW I found out what the problem was with the rifle there was a burr sticking out on the back of the rail causing the sight to be off to the left. removed burr all ok now lol so simple I can smack myself for not checking for that first thing.

Ok just got back from the range and I just shot 300 rounds of Federal 62 grain green tip with one misload ( my fault ) the first round in the mag wasnt seated all the way.

New total is now 900 rounds and a big smile on my face.

Huh?
..........

This is not a scientific experiement. This is a thread to get a feel for how the Sport is holding up. At least that's my interpretation. Seems like certain people want to have a problem with anything they can.

I don't think anyone on here is bashing the sport.

What I do see here is (not just this thread) people needing to justify their sport, why, I have no idea. It's a rifle, it shoots. You, most likely being a civilian, probably don't have the means (money) to wear it out.

Just enjoy the rifle, just my observation, but some sport owners go around with a chip on their shoulder. Who cares what someone else thinks of your rifle. This board could never turn in to a m4carbine.net type board, 3/4 of the threads on here are about sports. Basically the same threads, just started over and over. They are titled with the word 'Sport', as if to say, 'hey, I don't have a real AR and I'm annoucning it to the world'. When in reality, it's just another AR, like all the others that vary in the features they come with/without.

Do we really need a thread that says 'what scope for my sport'? A scope for the sport is going to be the same as a scope for any other AR type rifle and it's going to depend on what you want to shoot and how you shoot your rifle.

If I'm not mistaken, the 'sport' is a M&P, just like the A, the X the whatever. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I don't think anyone on here is going to tell the difference in shooting a rifle with a melonite barrel, chrome lined barel or CMV barrel. I doubt there are too many expert marksmans on here that are really THAT good. You all would probably get the same groupings no matter what barrel was on your rifle and no matter what barrel you have, you will probably never wear it out.

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

Only one day at the range so far so just 200 rounds.

I should have my Geissele SSA tomorrow so, weather permitting, it'll be another day at the range this weekend.

Yup. This is quickly turning into another Sigma sub-forum. Little worthwhile discussion, just overly defensive people justifying their budget-priced pick from the product line.

the thread or the whole forum?

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Grover Oathkeeper

M&P Sport owners post no differently than the bcm, spikes etc crowd, however differentiate there rifle by adding sport.
Seems certain people really have nothing positive to add, and may not even own an M&P. I myself try to post info that states it's a great product, not some tinker toy as it's been referred to. Bottom line if you want to purchase an M&P Sport, you ask people who own, not an over opinionated group of tacticool owners who believe they speak from the AR bible.... As it's all a matter of opinion.

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Light, Accurate,Versatile M&P

Sarge...you posted twice bro!!!

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Grover Oathkeeper

No Sir, I did no such thing 8 /

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Light, Accurate,Versatile M&P

Today there was a colt AR right next to me and there was almost zero difference in the rifles as far as performance. I am kinda interested in the thread to see how many FTF and FTL there are and what Brand of ammo was used.

I'm stayin' outta this one.......don't have a Sport, but I've got an MP-15. Gonna be interesting to see the results, but I think it's gonna take a long, long time to measure any results.

That's all I wanted, was a single place to track issues and round results on the Sport, as it's considered entry level junk that will never perform.

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Light, Accurate,Versatile M&P

I don't think anyone around here considers it 'junk' that will not perform. Entry level yes, because it's the cheapest one you can buy in the M&P line. Price being the lowest is why. You really should not sweat the small stuff (in this case, what others think about your rifle)

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

This maybe where the high round count can be found . Rifls where tsted at Gubsite Academy-http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/06/benjamin-t-shotzberger/%EF%BB%BF-gun-review-smith-and-wesson-mp15-sport/

Also read this on the melonite coating, Might wake up some folks. Found at ar15 site. - Several tread there to read-http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/02/shot-show-report-mmi-trutec-salt-bath-nitriding-for-barrels/

Guess you will have to look it up!!

You want to study on Melonite look at this thread, I did a lot of studying to find everything I can on Melonite..it is a bit of a technical read but it will show you that chrome and the Melonite treatment arent even close, with chrome a distant last:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-w...s-sport.html:D

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Grover Oathkeeper

Hey Grover, your link took me to the Smith & Wesson forums menus.

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

Here's the important parts I picked out:

^These core statements ring true to me. I've voiced similar opinions in other threads.

My 15-Sport works for me. That's all that matters.

Crracer, very insightful.

The 15-Sport is an entry level priced rifle. Don't infer any negative connotation from the phrase "entry level" that implies low quality. The S&W biased audience on this forum will agree that the 15-Sport represents a good value for the dollar.

As CCracer alluded to earlier; an AR pattern rifle is an AR pattern rifle is an AR pattern rifle. The overall design & function of a direct impingement AR is the same.

Don't sweat the small stuff. Just enjoy your rifle.

Don't forget CCracer, the 15-Sport is an entry level priced rifle that is a good value for the dollar. The 15-Sport's attractive price point brings more firearms enthusiasts that are new to the AR platform. So yes, there will be more threads about the 15-Sport and more posters specifically identifying the 15-Sport in their threads.

From your perspective, and admittedly my own, you see the same subject(s) being repeated over and over. From the perspective of the new to the AR platform M&P 15 owner, they're asking the question for the first time.

If it ever gets repetitive and annoying for me, I'll not participate in the thread. I sense that Dragon88 has been there & done that so many times, it's grating on his nerves a bit. Even though this may be the case, he pops in every once in the while when he notices we're way off track.

Actually, I really don't care about the repetative threads. If I can answer the same question again and again, I'd just as soon do that instead of pointing someone to an existing thread.

The one that really made me laugh was the one wanting to know what lube to use on the sport. I'm glad M&P makes the sport, it's price attracts more people to S&W. Not that I have a buck in S&W, but I do like the company. Lots of people knock DPMS as well, but between the Sport and DPMS, a lot of new people are taking a serious look at AR's. The more people that get in to AR's, I think maybe the less sinister they'll be viewed.

If someone really wanted to talk about entry level, they could talk about my New Frontier Armory plastic lower (99 bucks) and my DPMS A3 flat top oracle upper with lightweight barrel (383.00). No melontie, no chrome lined barrel. I believe it's 4140 CMV 1:9 twist ta boot.

Post that at the top of any forum and let em flame away. Won't bother me in the least, will probably give me a good laugh at the ignorance spewing about.

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

Was that the complete lower offered at joeboboutfitters.com?

A complete AR for $482?!? Now that's a deal.

I was trying to linkback to the thread where I posted all the information about the melonite treatment. Lets see if this works;

I was doing some research on the difference between chrome lined barrels and Melonite. If you want to read something interesting check out the friction coefficient between the two. In the following attachment they show that the friction difference is tremendous with Melonite winning by a mile. It is very much a technical read but after reading posts by the people in this forum I feel that everyone will understand it.

Wear Resistant Coating, QPQ, Melonite, California

and two explaining Melonite and the Melonite Process, it is a treatment not a plating.

Melonite Processing

http://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/...-ferritic.html


QPQ, Corrosion Resistance, Nitrocaburizing Process

after studying this I believe that you will understand why I would look for a Melonite treated barrel over a chrome lined barrel any day. I hope you enjoy these articles and Have a wonderful Day

This is something that I keep repeating every so often when newer people start asking about Melonite vs Chrome!!
p.s. My round count is up to 750 and I have a lot of reloading to do!!

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Grover Oathkeeper