I was over checking out another forum. I wont say which 4um I was at to dignify the gun snobs. But some poor guy posted that he has a new Sport and that it works as he said real good. They were not nice to him at all. In fact I am going to go over there and invite him over here. If you get the chance and just want to see what I am talking about. It is 4 gun snobs and people who believe in their $2500 M4 look alikes. (enough hints)
I really dislike gun snobs!!!

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Grover Oathkeeper

Bring him on over!

I think they took issue with his post because he wasn't asking any question for discussion, rather he just made a statement. That's a tough crowd over there, and definitely not new-guy friendly. It's almost as bad as a dedicated sub-forum on a certain Austrian pistol forum Cyphertext & I frequent.

EDIT... and TangoFoxtrot

I invited him, and the next post after that is a Daniel Defense M4 (they are not M4's, M4's are fully automatic) blew up at a range this week with pics. Split the barrel right down the side. And then in the following posts their are people putting signatures like"Sports are for Kids...click*"
As I said before I really really dislike gunsnobs.

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Grover Oathkeeper

AMEN brother! I dispise them as well. I know the crowd you speak of. It just shows their ignorence and bad manners. I'll challenge anyone of them to a shoot off at 100 meters for pink slips with my Sport. Yeah bring that guy over hear, much nicer folks eith better manners.

Those who truly know nothing talk the loudest and are the most opinionated in guns, politics or most any other subject. And the more money they have the worse they are. Just because you paid $3000 for your AR doesn't really make it better. There are a lot of high$ AR's that are real junk.

Indeed. IMO priority #1 regardless of of the roll mark on the firearm is reliable function. I don't care if it's a DPMS Sportical, 15-Sport, Colt LE 6920, Rock River, Noveseke, etc., it has to work.

Does it consistently, repeatably complete a full firing cycle? Will the AR give me minute of man (or hog) accuracy at the distances within my skill?

I always get a kick out of people who buy a rifle that works, then believe some unknown screen name(s) on the internet that tells them their rifle is garbage. They then go to great lengths and expense to modify/fix/buy an AR to fit in with the other faceless screen names.

I'm here because I bought a S&W. If I bought an AR from a different manufacturer, I'd be on a forum dedicated to that manufacturer.

Buy a sport and have money left for optics furniture and plenty of ammo to enjoy it.

Absolutely Wihunter!

It's great to always have a group of people that never turn their nose up at anything, but at the same time, it's great to have a group of people who's toes don't get hurt should they get stepped on.

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

I was looking into a sport also a couple months back and made the same mistake and stopped by certain carbine forum and got flamed with the them and told how ****** the sport was.

I am happy with my M&P15 sport. Specialy when you can out shot some bozo with a m4 that cost 2 times as much. I have around 1200 rounds through it now and it runs well and is more accurate than many costlier snob owned label guns. With heavier match ammo it will also shot just sub moa groups and a bit over with cheap ar223 55gr fmj. Good solid rifle. I have changed the handguard and added a scope but its done. Time to hunt coyote.

Hello everyone I'm Jay, and I am a Sportoholic.

If were not for the Smith & Wesson and the great reputation of the Sport I would not have bought an AR at this time. More than likely it would be an AK. The price of the sport was the #1 reason I even gave it a second look. All the great reviews it was getting is what sealed the deal for me. Not to mention this great forum.

Only 2 problems with my sport so far. Not enough shooting time and it always has it's hand in my wallet, just like a teenage daughter.

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M&P9/9C/Shieldx2/Sportx2/15-22

Daughters!! You got that right. Mine now have there own young'ins. You still have to help out when you can or when they need it.

Hello Jay and welcome.

Stupid Sport. I love mine and I too wouldn't of bought an AR if I had to pay over a grand to get started.

It's a common occurance to have any special interest group on the 'net to start behaving like that, especially since you don't have to look the person in eye when you're expressing your disdain for them. Sad but true.

I really like this forum. Not just because it's S&W oriented, but because of the feeling of being welcomed.

Carry on.

Hobie

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Laissez les bons temps roulez!

ONEYEOPN thanks for the words. That site you mentioned is the rudest most uninforming site I seen. Ignorance runs rampant there. Godbless ,Fowler The Sport the little rifle that could and you can spend more and not get better.

I had to go look...nosey I guess. Sad thing is, they were a lot nicer to him than they usually are. That particular forum is a read only for me (partly because they still haven't approved my access). I think it is a good place to go if you want technical info. If you just want to share that you have a new rifle, or share an experience, there are better forums that welcome that.

I received an email from the Gentleman who was the recipient of such a fine reception on the other forum and he will be joining us. Good for him.

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Grover Oathkeeper

With all due respect, the m4carbine.net forum policy on not making non-informational, Facebook-type status updates has been around for a very long time. The poster on that forum had his thread closed, and things only got rude after he opened a second thread to complain about his first thread getting closed.

Yes, they can be brutal over there, but if you follow the "read more, post less" advice, you'll keep yourself from getting butt-hurt and learn a lot in the process.

BTW, I've seen "I bought a Colt/BCM/DD" status-update posts get locked, too.

So the Sport is not an "AR"? Even if you think that. I just say, "Okay, so what?" I'm pretty sure it is a gun at least. And a damn fine one at that.

There seems to be two types of peope who talk about the Sport on the net: 1) People who sing their praises 2) Internet gun experts that have never shot one and never will because they "know" it's an inferior firearm. I think this group is made up largely of mall ninjas!

Group 2 is kind of like athiests, they don't like what you have and can't be happy until you're not happy either, JMHO.

In my opinion they need to close down that site as being useless. I never seen so many web hype armchair commandos that think they may know something which in most case,s is nothing. The SW forum has been very imformative and most posters know a thing about firearms and shooting ,selfdefence,reloading. Thankyou folks on Smith Wesson Forum for your fine work and usefull firearms knowledge.

My last AR was an Olympic Arms PCR with 18 in barrel. You can guess how much **** I got about that. But that's ok, at the range guys with their high $$ ARs just couldn't believe it would shoot 5/8" 5 shot groups at 100 yards. Of course I didn't tell them that I have been working on that load for 11/2 years to get those groups!!!! I had also replaced the barrel with an Olympic 20 heavy barrel and free floating hand guard.

My Sport shots as well if not better that the Oly Arms did and I'm absolutely happy with it's performance. I wonder if any of the gun snobs would be a target out about 200 yrds? Oh well a guy could hope can't he!!!!!!!!!!

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gunfighter48
NRA Life Member

Just go over there and post what Col. Cooper and others have said about the "M-16" genre, and it's dedicated for ground hog bullet. Refined junk is still just junk refined that will lay down when you need it the most, in my view. Flapjack.

I just think that and this is my own opinion, if your going to call yourself M4Carbine.net that you should be an open source for all the M4 look alike rifles. (an M4 is a full automatic weapon, real M4's are few and far between, everything else is a look alike or an M4rgery) I see a lot of open disdain over there and very little actual information that a person who makes less than $150k can use. I tried to find out things over there when I was thinking about the sport and all I got was the opinion that I could never afford to have a real M4rgery. They may have rules in place that cover what they want and what they don't. But my pockets aren't deep enough for Noveske or Lewis Machine and Tool. I see their ads in my American Rifleman but they start out at prices that if I had that money I could add another room on my house. And although there is some good information to be gleaned from the sight it appears to be run by the haves who look down upon the have nots. My life has never been driven by the "keep up with the Jone's" philosophy. Mine was be happy and have no regrets and I just have a hard time feeling like I am being looked down upon because I cannot justify spending 2 grand on an upper. Sorry I didn't mean to offend anyone but this was my $.15 rant!!

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Grover Oathkeeper

If you are truly happy with your rifle, then other's opinions of it are meaningless.

If you don't agree with the way a forum is run and it's general membership, don't go there.

While I like my 15-Sport, defending the "honor" of an inanimate object to a known hostile audience is pointless.

Shoot your rifle. Be happy. Don't go poking around a forum that does you no good and only aggravates you.

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-John

Its funny really because the sport may be one of the vary best Ar 15s ever made.

that's funny because I am thinking about getting a M & P 15-22 now and every store I talk to has told me they sell them both as fast as they can get them in for both rifles.

Uh oh, I think you'll get hit by lightning when you go over there and log in now.

It's a nice rifle, but I certainly wouldn't go that far...

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*Aim small, miss small...

I also am a Sportoholic and don't care for ar15/m4carbine.com because of the attitude.

I love it every year at work we qualify rifles out to 150 yards and most break out their high end tacticool ar with gizmo galore and can't hit the side of a red barn.

I know I'm new but, I like it here.

For under a $1100 YES

Yes. For $1000 I would find a Colt 6920 but I got mine for $590 otd in Raleigh NC.

What are its competitors? DPMS? Olympic? Bushmaster? They are hardly in the same ballpark. I have heard really good reviews of psa and delton rifles though.

and what is it we'll learn..... I've lurked and posted there... the place has zero value..... but I still go back in hopes I can learn all this valueable knowledge I hear about.. what, "The List" ..... it's joke, just as Mil spec is becoming old hat and not so valuable anymore. Someone needs to beat it into some of those guys, the times they are a changin. It's more guys living a childhood fantasy of playing GI Joe..

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Jack C

Funny stuff, I spent about 2.5hrs at the range yesteday, to my right was a newer lookin Bushy. To my left was an older guy with his high tech Colt... the bushy was hammerin out rounds like he was shooting at an army of soldiers and he was the only one with a gun. The Colt on the other hand, was a beautiful speciman.... unfortunately the guy was dead after the first shot.... he couldn't seem to get 2 shots fired in a row without fighting to get another round chambered or his bolt to free up after locking up.. new bolts, springs triggers.. p-arts out of one of my AR's just couldn't get this thing to work right... not to mention my friend helping the guy out.. my friend is an employee of Colt, highly involved in their AR LE dept..

Buy what you can afford, most of these AR's will work better than we will ever shoot them!! When I buy anything, not just AR's, I buy what I feel is the best, but also what I think has support readily available should I need it. Nice to live 10 minutes from S&W, 10 minutes from Savage, 25 min. from Colt, 1 hr from Ruger, YHM is 20 min. and Troy is 5 minutes from my house...

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Jack C

The sport is a Fantastic* entry level AR. My father has one and it we shoot it every weekend (weather permitting) with no problems so far. Its as accurate as he would ever need it to be.

*It has the 1in8 twist (allows for stabilization of varying bullet weights) with the T/C 5R rifling that their hunting rifles are prized for

*Melonited coated barrel (stuff is super tough)

*chrome lined gas key and carrier

*magpul flip up rear comes with it, a lot of other budget AR's do not include a rear sight

all for about 650-700 bucks. I was skeptical, but after shooting his I believe this is a great value gun for anyone getting into AR's or someone that doesnt need all the bells and whistles but with plenty of fun factor anyway!

most AR's come without the "bells and whistles".. Put an Acog, red dot and a headlite on it and the gun is as ready as any AR on the market!! M4C can go blow bubbles

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Jack C

yes but a lot of people get turned off because this one doesnt have a dust cover and forward assist........ im of the personal belief that they arent necessary. Maybe if i was spending 14 months in the desert the dust cover would be nice, but for what I would be diong they arent necessary

that's weak.. I call that an excuse.. I'll bet you 95% of AR owners never close the DC or have ever used the FA.. Yhey have no experience with AR's and must have hung out at M4C..

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Jack C

I must be in that 5% group. I can't sleep at night unless my dust cover is closed.... Wait, I think I mentioned this in another thread already.

I also like to stroke the forward assist to ease a round in the chamber.



I'm talking about the rifle.... perverts

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

I did that.

I like things to be uncovered so I can see that the action is well lubed and wet.

I'm talking about the rifle.

I payed 595 for my sport several mounths back at my LGS and the new sports have the melonite treated bolt . No longer chrome . I also use my FA to queitly chamber a round . Just push the scaloped area of the bolt ,FA right. I think i would put mine up to any "mil-spec advertize rifle for accuracy. A extra 400+ may buy a dust cover and FA on the out side of the reciever But not a better rifle for a carbine match or basic civilain needs.

If it ain't going to war under a goverment purchase contract it may have mil-spec parts in it but it ain't mil-spec.

Never forget- there are Zero...... LaRue, LWRC, Stag, Spikes, PSA, Daniel Defense,Mega/ Ma Ten,DPMS, DelTon, S&W, Ruger or Armalite rifles in the hands of the US military in any combat field.
In essence, they are all backyard militia grade guns.
The LMT 308 are being used by the British military.
So, I can offer a little deference to the Colt guys and the KAC folks. Not to mention, the boogie men get their choices, and some Sig units are in their hands.

The Best way to deter this nonsense stuff? Get to a range day, or take a carbine class and hand over your rifle to some skeptics. Hint; The minute they shoot it, they understand that in the end, it's all just another rifle.

So where's the refugee....err... new guy?

JaPes...He is here (Jeep)...but there appear to be a few refugees

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Grover Oathkeeper

LOL I have three! 28, 24, 23. and two grandchildren. I still helped them out when they need it. Two are medical professionals and one is a Phys Ed. teacher. So hopefully they care for me when I'm old and broken!

Do you have much knowledge with the AK? I ask, because I do not. However, it's one of my oldest sons favorite rifles and should the oppotunity present itself, I wouldn't mind picking one up for him.

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

Rod, No I don't. I do own an SKS, and really like the 7.62x39 round. That was the reason for considering an AK, not to mention their penance for just working, no matter how they are used/treated.

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M&P9/9C/Shieldx2/Sportx2/15-22

I asked my boy why he liked the AK over the SKS (which I have little knowledge of either). He just said, I don't know, I just do. He tends to like older military stuff. I have a couple of Mosin Nagants 9130 coming, one of which is for him.

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

you wont be disappointed, great rifles. I prefer the M44 over the 91/30 for no particular reason, but they are all great.

Is the M44 the carbine length? If so, I agree, and would like it better. I believe hickok45 has a video on that particular rifle.

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

Lol. My very last post reply at M4.net I was told
You have no idea the type of people that are on here and what they do for a living........
Really....... ummmm, OK. they act like there Iraq/Astan combat security contractors, or Spec. Ops. Etc.
The funny thing, I deployed with those very groups..... never were they stalking some forum, or even talking about it, too busy traning, packing to leave, or unpacking and replenishing supplies to deploy to the next **** hole.
98.5% are joe shmoe key board combatants
.5% may be pro shooters
1% may be career soldiers

Oh yes...... THE LIST.....what a joke, I laughed when finally found it. I thought really, guys are purchasing there weapons based on a list.

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Light, Accurate,Versatile M&P