So, as this story goes, my neighbor down the street, the one who commented on the lack of dust cover and fa. He's one of those guys who believes statements on a certain m4 forum are written gospel. So he finds him self an RRA operator II. It's decent, comes with a 1/2 ton of furniture ready to rock...
HOWEVER...... it weighs 8 lbs empty ! (M1 Garande is 9 lbs)
vs. my 6.45 lb M&P sport.

He then states it's tougher and overall stronger. I just chuckled.
I then started looking at weights by other manufactures.
The sport is sure light in comparison.
Colt M4.................6 lbs.
Bush ORC.............6.0
DPMS sporticle.....6.3
M&P sport.............6.45
M&P OR.................6.5
DPMS Oracle.........6.6
RRA ET...................7.5
RRA OP2................8.0

Some companies do not publish weight...... ?

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Light, Accurate,Versatile M&P

My Sport set up the way I have it is 6.7lbs

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Grover Oathkeeper

RRA is from my home state. Several of the local LGS' have them in stock. I've held an RRA Elite Operator 2 a few times. I agree with your observation about weight. I swear my Mosin-Nagant feels lighter. My newbie observations:

1. The RRA Elite Operator's milled free float hand guard is really heavy. IMO, the rifle feels real unbalanced, and front heavy. Side to side transitions were more difficult because it was harder to arrest the momentum of the extra mass.

2. The 1/2 smooth & 1/2 lower rail is a good idea, but I'm not sure how practical it is. It limits the position of a VFG. If you want to grab out nearer the muzzle end, you're grabbing rail.

3. I need just one sling point on the gas block. I do not need three (bottom & two sides). That one had me scratching my head.

4. The two stage trigger was nice. Take up the slack & clean break.

5. The RRA muzzle brake looks nice.

6. The salesman let me pivot the upper & lower. With the exception of the 2-stage trigger, the guts looked standard AR to me.

7. Compared to the staking on my two other AR's, the RRA's staking looked less "staked"? I don't know how to really describe it.

Overall I think it's a good rifle, just not my cup of tea.

Take your friend out shooting where you have to make quick lateral transitions on targets. See who fatigues first.

Weight means a lot even if its only ounces, especially if your carrying your rifle for extended time periods.

Smith & Wesson lists the Sport a 6.45 lbs. How did you get your down to 5.5 lbs? I honestly don't think 8 lbs is heavy; particularly if it's all mall ninja-ed out like you say. Did you weigh both guns?

I do agree weight is important. That's why I decided to go with the magpul handguard instead of a quadrail. Accessory weight adds up quickly.

Typo..... The RJ Katana is about 5.5 lbs I think.

8 lbs for a modern rifle that short with only a Hogue pistol grip, and half smooth foam covered handguard with rails on the end, and a little nicer but stock. It fills drastically heavier. Can't wait to see it with a 500$ Optic, flashlight, laser and full magazine.
It's goin over 10 lbs.

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Light, Accurate,Versatile M&P

How is the Sport "light in comparison"? It's nearly the heaviest plain jane carbine on your own list there. Comparing weights between plain and rail-equipped ARs is nonsensical.

IN COMPARISON TO AN RRA OP2. I doubt the rail weighs 1.55 lbs, and for you viewing pleasure I added an RRA Entry Tac, there standard 7.5 lb. M4 profile.

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Light, Accurate,Versatile M&P

When I purchased my OR, the shop had a RRA Op 2 that they were going to make me a sweet deal on. This thing was about as tactacool as they come. I held it side by side with the OR (with MBUS sights) and couldn't believe how heavy it was! I get it, it's not apples to apples when you look at what's bolted on but I wouldn't have made those choices anyway. A couple of pounds may not sound like much but when you hold them side by side, it was a deal breaker for me.

Okay, 8 lbs pre-accessories is very heavy. And a pound and a half difference is very noticable, IMO.

Apples to oranges. You are correct on that second point though, in that the rail system is not the only difference on the RRA you are choosing to compare the Sport to. Put all the same features as that Rock River on your Sport and let us know what the weight is, if you want to do an accurate comparison.

From what I've seen around the net RRA is a heavy rifle. Some people like that, some don't. Another heavy rifle is the Black Rain Ordinance, I lifted one of these bad boys up at a gun store and was surprised by the weight. Some people think their a gawdy looking rifle, I like'em. I don't like the price ~1600 and up.

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

Or...take of the handguards and the extra stuff and weigh the rifles that way, make sure you put a front sight on the RRA, cause the sports is fixed but weigh the basic rifles. If you dont want all the armchair combatent stuff your going to take it off anyway. I IMOHO do not care for a quadrail, am not even interested in them. but some people are and some people would like the status symbol of a $1600 dollar rifle where as I myself, unless I build it, dont care a spit nickel about it. I never bought a 10-22, my old Marlin 60 will out shoot most of them and the ones it doesnt have had so much money dumped into them that it should put them in a different catagory. So the difference to me between a $690 dollar Sport and a $1600 RRA doesnt mean a thing. I have already seen my Sport up against a Colt H-Bar and a Bushmaster, which both cost more than my Sport by quite a bit and were not even in the same county as far as accuracy. Oh buy the way I was in Wally World last night. They had a Sig with what looked to be a rifle length barrel and Magpul furniture plus a USGI 20 round mag. $999, other manufacturers are starting to see a price battle coming on I think.

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Grover Oathkeeper

The full floated handgards on the RRs are very heavy, a rifle length one weighs 17oz, even the the M4 profile barrels are thicker at the base than most makers. That is where most of the extra weight comes from. According to RRA they are working on lightening them up. I have one on order but don't plan on putting anything other than a lightweight optic on it. (unless the wait is to long then I'll get my 2nd choice an M&P MOE)

So a rifle is not the sum of its parts? So we have to strip them both down to see how the weight compares? Kind of silly logic. It weighs what it weighs; apples, oranges, bananas, pears...it is still what it weighs. If you want to do a rebuild and compare, then that's different. But otherwise it's pretty simple. I don't buy into the idea that they are built with different parts and that's why you can't compare them. In fact that's kind of the point.

by thursday afternoon my sport should be up over 10 lbs, with the addition of my caldwell bipod.

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Grover Oathkeeper

My MOE weighs 8.4 pounds with a 30-round mag of M855 and an Aimpoint PRO optic on it. Mods that made it heavier include a Vortex G6A2 flash suppressor, M16BCG, H2 buffer, CTR stock, CAA UPG16 pistol grip. The Aimpoint is 13 ounces, and I'm not sure what the loaded magazine weighs, but it feels about the same as the Aimpoint.

My guess is that without the optic and ammo, the rifle weights around 6.7 pounds.

So, load your Sport and put an optic on it and then tell us how much it weighs. My guess is that you're going to find it difficult to keep it under eight pounds.

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*Aim small, miss small...

His RRA is 8 lbs empty, no optics. The standard RRA ET version is 7.5 empty.
I read a loaded 30 rnd pmag is 1 lb. feels heavier though.
I hunt with my AR, so the lighter the better.
I like the RRA, it's just heavier. His version loaded, with a laser and an optic is pushing 10 lbs.

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Light, Accurate,Versatile M&P

My M&P 15A, the way I have it configured, with a loaded 20 rnd magazine weighs 9.8 lbs.

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

Wow, I'd like to see a picture of of that, that's 3 lbs of accessories including a mag.

I was looking at rail weights, some of them suckers are heavy !
I also can't believe the cost on some of them, paying titanium prices for AC aluminum.

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Light, Accurate,Versatile M&P

It's the one on the right... obviously..

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

My Sport the way I have it configured right now, without a magazine weighs 9lb even!!

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Grover Oathkeeper

^ Nice.

Are the other two pinned 14.5" barrels?

Ok I just weighed my Sport with a fully loaded 20 round mag just as she is set up in the following photo. 10.4 lbs...but heavy rifles shoot long ways....

DSCF3777.jpg

I was afraid that my scale wouldnt go that high...LOL

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Grover Oathkeeper

My target built 308 is 11.5 lbs. But that was the intent.

Oneye, for what your doing, looks like your on the rite track, I'm guessing your handloads will make that a tac driver.

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Light, Accurate,Versatile M&P

Crracer, some good looking ARs, weight sure adds up quick.

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Light, Accurate,Versatile M&P

Some one needs to come out with TI rail sets !

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Light, Accurate,Versatile M&P

The two on the left are 15-22's

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

yes it does! the 15-22 on the left, I need to weigh it, but I'd guess it's around 7.5 pounds.

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

the federal xm193's made a heck of a difference. but my dies will be here monday and tuesday I go to the reloading stores in wichita. I have just about convinced myself to replace the front sight with a gas block/ upper rail combo for a folding front sight. And am getting a different latch handle for my Charging Handle. It is cheaper than buying the whole handle from gunfighter and there is nothing wrong with my charging handle itself. I used some of the high temp grease that is copper colored, just a smidgen and my CH is slick as can be. But I am excited to see what I can do with Handloads.

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Grover Oathkeeper

Let me no how that handle is made, I don't like the stock one, too small,
I like the large gunfighter type and badger ordinance tactical latch.

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Light, Accurate,Versatile M&P

Crracer has built this one. It weighs 6.6lbs with a 20 round magazine. it is a New Frontier Lower and a DPMS upper. He says that the plastic trigger breaks very clean no grit. 6.6 lbs with a full 20 round mag just as she sits..100MEDIA95IMAG0947(1).jpg
I think his build came in under 5 if I remember right $99 for the lower $383 for the upper both included shipping but the $20 for the ffl was split between this and a pair of Mosin Nagants....real sweet job cant wait till I get to shoot it!!!! 8^)

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Grover Oathkeeper

I will let you know how that charging handle latch works...It is different than anyone elses and I am kinda shooting for that.

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Grover Oathkeeper

One reason I like the Sport so much is that it is several pounds lighter than the M-1 Garand that is my only other semi-auto rifle.

The only thing I might put on it is a different iron sight. Other than that, it stays like it came from the gun shop.

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Even with a pencil barrel this beast is starting to feel a little heavy in comparison to my stock Sport.

I haven't researched this statement but, I'll wager other manufacturers of AR's are either contemplating or designing their own less costly version of the weapon, too.

The DC and FA will probably be eliminated on those weapons also, to save the company lots of $ and a smaller price tag.

Wonder if your buddy knows both were added after the original design to eliminate ongoing problems.

FA's and DC are equivalent to carrying a condom in your wallet. Maybe you'll need it, maybe not.

They are kinda both "Taints" as in "Taint needed".

I've put 1,000rds thru my T and haven't had a situation where I've used the FA, yet. If the dust cover didn't automatically deploy, I'd be in trouble.

But, I am and always have been a civilian.

And the only thing I'm killing is time.

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AKA: "Strange Tamer"

Hmmm.. That's helpful at the trap/skeet range- Shotgunners call it follow through.

Under 7 lbs seems right for this small of a carbine. As is, I think the Sport is what the AR should be given the cartridge it fires- light and handy- like the M1 Carbine or the original M16A1. As I recall, the 20" A1 I recently sold that was made from ex-GI M16 Colt parts (late 70s era upper and furniture, new barrel and new semi A2 lower) weighed just under 7. That A1 was a nice little carbine compared to my M1 Garand--but I do like that .30-06!

Actually I'm waiting for a Sport that I ordered. Like you, I'm thinking of upgrading the rear sight but probably nothing else. I'd like a rear sight with elevation adjustment. I was disappointed that S&W changed the rear sight on the Sport to a windage only sight. Basically they went back to an A1 sight system-elevation front/windage rear. Rugged, functional, but no different than the A1 I recently sold.

mine weighs 7.2 lbs empty, even with the glass on...9 lbs for an ar? i guess it all goes back to function vs fashion, it's just me...

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I can help you dress up the stock furniture with some custom camo paint job.

My sport is 6lbs 12oz with a red dot on it. Just added an elzetta flash light mount and surefire g2, so I'm going to guess I'm about 7lbs and a couple oz now.