I planned on picking up the M&P 15 Sport on Thursday for $699, but I found another place that has the M&P 15 Optics Ready for $799.

What would you guys go for? If I get the Optics Ready gun will a rear Magpul sight work ok? What can I use for the front sight on the gas block?

$799 for the OR seems like a great deal.

Wow. I had no idea iron sights were so expensive.

I would get the OR if you plan to use a scope/red dot.
The sport if going with iron sights.
If you are going to use both then it would depend if you care about the differences,forward assist,dust cover,chromed bolt carrier/barrel.If not get the sport.

Yup. A good set of iron sights need not be expensive to get something good. If you do decide to get the OR, decide on what optic (red dot, ACOG, magnified scope) that you want to mount first. Then choose your iron sights to be compatible.

Do you want folding sights & co-witness them to your dot? Do you want to mount a magnified optic, then a set of 45-degree canted sights?



This way you roll the AR to use your irons, and they don't get the way of your optic.

You can mount whatever you want on the rear. The front sight that you mount onto the gas block will take some thought. Since the gas block can get hot, polymer front sights are not recommended. If you do a mag dump, the gas block will get hot enough to melt polymer. If your pace of fire isn't enough to get the block too hot, you might be able to get away with a polymer front sight.

As to the 15-Sport v.s. 15-OR, it's up to you. They're both great rifles.

OR = forward assist, dust cover, railed gas block, chrome lined chamber & bore, 1:9 twist rate, M4 profile barrel.

Sport = "F" marked A2 front sight, Magpul folding rear sight, straight barrel, Melonite treated chamber & bore, 1:85R progressive gain rifling.

IMO, is a forward assist & dust cover important to you? I'm don't intend the question to be condescending. If the ideal image of an AR in your head includes a forward assist & dust cover and you want them, spend the extra $100 + $ for sights to get the OR. You'll be happier.

Whichever one you choose will become a money pit. Enjoy!

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-John

Can I mount the Bushnell TRS-25 on the OR without any iron sights to start off with? I will add iron sights within a month or two.

This is the Bushnell TRS-25: Amazon.com: Bushnell Trophy TRS-25 1xRed Dot Sight Riflescope: Sports & Outdoors

If I do put on the Bushnell TRS-25, what riser do I need?

I have a scoped OR with Troy folders but honestly, I first had a Vortex red dot with the Troy BUIS. I have never used the BUIS after zeroing (originally absolute co witnessed with the red dot).

I would not have bought them to go with my Nikon M223 because I simply don't need them at the range and don't anticipate combat at this late stage of my youth.

My advice is decide how you will use the rifle and buy the best optic you can afford. Consider BUIS IF you decide to go with a QR optic mount or will have an actual need for irons in an emergency or just like open sights.

The rifle will be used as a plinker. I appreciate all of the advice everyone. I am considering the 15 Optics Ready since it is such a good deal.

I guess my question is, can I get the OR model and add the Bushnell TRS-25 and be ok for plinking? I will add buis later on.

I was faced with a similar deal, and could have gotten a good deal on an OR model, but I chose the Sport. Mainly because I wanted the 1:8 twist so that I could fire the longer, heavier bullets for hog hunting. In reality, either one would probably have met my needs.

You certainly can start with a red dot on the OR model. There is nothing that says you must have iron sights. If it is just a plinking and range gun, then all that will happen is your day of shooting might end early if the battery dies.

Sure can! The irons are just for back-up in case your optic fails. Since you're just plinking at the range, the only thing an optic failure will do is prematurely end your range session.

IMO, you should still learn to shoot iron sights well. When you do, a dot becomes a convenience not a necessity.

I don't think you'll need one. The rail on the upper receiver is the same height as the rail on the gas block.

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-John

There's something I didn't consider. If I can get the time, I want to go on a hog-hunt vacation. Nice to know that my Sport will do the job.

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-John

The height of the riser will depend on if you want absolute co-witness or lower 1/3 co-witness with the iron sights you choose.

And if you are interested in a set of Matech rear sights, ask Oneyeopn about them. He had a good deal on them.

If you only consider retail value $799 is a good price for the optics ready M&P 15, but $699 is high for the Sport. However, I still don't see the chrome-lined barrel, bolt assist, dust cover and removable trigger guard as being worth $100 more.

Dude, the way you shoot, you could put the 55 grainers in their ear and drop them. Me...I'll probably stick with the scoped 30-06.

In my opinion, I would go with the sport. I have one and use it for the same reason you want one. Since it already comes with a good set of sites out of the box you can start plinking. Take the $100 you save and put towards your scope or red dot. I agree with usuing something that co-witnesses and learning to use the iron sites. Just my 2 cents, good luck and happy shooting!

ROTFL! I'd probably end up jerking the trigger because all I'm thinking of is how tasty BBQ wild hog is.

I shot a friend's bolt action, polymer stock, scoped Savage rifle chambered in 30-06, and it kicked my butt. I know... I know... I just have to get used to it, but I'd rather shoot 3" high-power rifled slugs out of my Benelli SuperNova.

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-John

While I was waiting for my Sport the LGS got in an OR. I jumped on it! Personally I don't have BUIS, just the TRS-25 on a UTG .83 raiser. A couple of things on irons. If your gonna run optics why spend the money on BUIS for range and plinking only? Now if your gonna use it to defend yourself or others you may want to consider them. I just don't see "learning" irons as giving you any advantage to using optics. I do have to admit that I am well versed in the use of irons. BTW, make sure extra batteries are part of your range kit.

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Improvise, Adapt, Overcome

Thanks for the response. Is there anything I need to know about mounting the TRS-25 on the raiser? This is my first AR15. Any extra information regarding your TRS-25/Raiser is more than appreciated. I have never mounted an optic.

This is if I get the OR. I am going to buy one of the two this coming Thursday. If I find a Sport, I'll get it. If I don't find one, or one that is in good shape I'll go with the OR. Cheaper than Dirt Outdoor adventures in Fort Worth said he had a weeks supply of the OR model.

Texit... sounds like you want the OR more. Get the OR.

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-John

I posted this over in a different thread; after numerous red dots, a 1-4x is now my preferred optic. Works with or without batteries. Co-witness at 1x; ability to go to 4x for 200-300 yards.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-w...#post136504305

With this being my first AR15, I'm not sure what I want. I just want a quality gun with a good warranty. Both of these seem to achieve that.

Then you have a win-win dilemma my friend. Good luck!

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-John

Yeah your wallet is screwed either way you go

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CLEAR!

I am sorry but after my experiences with red dots and magnifiers to go 200 to 300 yards your better have a bus sized target, Magnifiers may take you to 175 but they also increase the size of your dot, which makes surgical style hits impossible. It does allow you to hit inside the dot which increases by 4. so is you start with a 4 or 5 moa dot your are shooting at a 16 or 20 MOA dot, where I am predator or prairie dog hunting that is not near precise enough plus at 200 yards a 20 moa dot is bigger than a human sized target IMHO. No disrespect just food for thought, I happen to run an 8-32x42 optic right now.

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Grover Oathkeeper

I'd get the OR, since you want a red dot and you want to plink. I don't think you're ever going to use a BUIS setup. I find I either use optics or open, but never both at the same time. I prefer not to have a fixed post out front, but I have two rifles like that, currently with no optics on them.

That is a heck of a buy on the OR. UTG has come iron sight, look identical to what is put on the M&P 15-22, and the rear sight of the original sport (before they started putting magul on). You can find them for about 40 bucks a pair. I have a set sitting on my dresser I pulled off my 15-22 since I scoped it.

You said plinking, so that means you're probably going to be shooting cheap ammo. Cheap ammo is 55 grain.

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

I was in the same boat. I was between the Sport and OR. By the time I got to the store, the Sport was sold. The OR was a decent deal at $850. At $799, it's a great deal.

Go with the red dot optic of your choice and a .83 riser. This will give you a good view through your optic without wrenching your neck. It will also allow you to use iron sights in the future (if you go that route) and look right through your red dot without having to remove it.

I got the Matech rear sight from Oneyeopn and it's really nice.

My OR and my 15-22. The front Iron Sight came from the 15-22.

Thanks everyone, will this combination of iron sights work on the OR:

Front sight: AR-15 Low Profile Front Sight Black Leapers UTG: ARR-153 - AR-15 Low Profile Front Sight Black Leapers UTG Works with Handguard Rails and High Profile Gas Block Rails

Back sight: Magpul BUIS: ARR-850 - MBUS MagPul Rear Flip Up Sight Black Gen 2 Fits Mil-Spec 1913 Picatinny Rail Lightweight Polymer

Yes............ (for the 10 character requirement....)

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

The Matech is the only folding rear sight that is adjustable for distance and windage, to adjust for distance you just flip a little lever on the side. It is what our troops are using at present.

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Grover Oathkeeper

Thanks guys. Now I just have to figure out how to sight them in.

As a first time AR15 owner I'm debating between buying the 2 sights listed above or just get the Bushnell TRS-25 and UTG .83 Riser. As a newbie, which of these combinations would be better for plinking? Sorry to be so long winded.

That's pretty much what I was going to say.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

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Improvise, Adapt, Overcome

Now we're down to preference. I have both in my set up but find myself using the irons more than the red dot. However, my kid folds down the back iron and prefers the red dot. It's going to be tough for anyone to help with that question as it's a matter of what you like best.

I will put one more plug in for the Matech rear sight. Oneyeopn (has posted in this thread) has them for less than the polymer MBUS. These are like $70-$80 sights normally. I have both and really like the Matech. It has more adjustments than I'll ever use. And, the guys at the range are always oohing and aahing at it.

It depends on what type of "plinking" you like to do. If plinking consists of shooting soda cans 50 yards out as fast as you can, then red dot. If plinking consists of trying to make one ragged hole, then iron sights or, better yet, a scope with magnification.

I'll second this plug. I prefer the Matech over the Magpul polymer sights as well. I like having the elevation available at the turn of the dial. I also would prefer the original fixed sight the Sport came with over the Magpul. I had a hard time with the Magpul since the top of the sight is not round. Even though the aperture is round, having the ghosting of the sight not appear round messed with me (this probably does not make sense to anyone else reading this). Because the ghost outline of the outer edge of the sight did not appear round, my eye did not want to focus at the center naturally.

I think I'm going to go with the Bushnell TRS-25 on the .83 riser.

Without me having BUIS should I mount the Red Dot on the front the receiver rail, or towards the back? I have seen most people mount them towards the front of the receiver rail.


What are the pluses and minuses of each location?

I have a TRS25 and it is not like a eotech type red dot. Its more like a scope to me in that to see what you are aiming at it needs to be looked into. Not as restrictive as a scope like a 3-4 inch eye relief but for me no more than ~12 inches before it becomes hard to use.

I have mine mounted to the front of the rail on the receiver. It is forward enough that I can keep both eyes open, but look through it with my right eye. I see the outside of the scope, but it is kinda blurry or ghosted, but the red dot appears to float. The advantage is that with both eyes open, I have a wider field of view and can still use my peripheral vision when hunting.

Two schools of thought. 1. As far forward as possible to get the outside FOV as much as possible. 2. As close as possible to have as wide a FOV inside the ring (Fight thru the Ring).

With 1 your able to see more outside the ring of the red dot.

With 2 it's possible to have two target inside the ring for faster transitions between the targets.

Since the picture I posted above, I have move mine halfway back. The TRS-25 has such a small ring that I end up taking longer to find the dot. Try it different ways and which one is faster for you.

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Improvise, Adapt, Overcome

So have you gotten one yet? Most folks are leaning toward the OR, but I'll go the other way, for plinking the Sport is ready to go as it already has sights and is 100 bucks cheaper. $699 is a little high but right now they are hard to find.

I haven't purchased one yet. I am Thursday.

I'm still having a hard time deciding between the Sport or the OR.

This is the way I would go too. $100 less, comes with sights. You put your red dot on it and you are good to go. I believe the melonited 1:8 twist with 5R rifling is a better barrel than the 1:9 twist chrome lined barrel.

That is a good price on the OR though. Either way you are getting a good rifle. You just have to decide which features are more important to you.

OTOH, the bbl. , while a good one is better is debatable and the OR is just fine with a red dot sight. NOT having a front fixed sight is desirable for many and most people spend a lot of money customizing their rifles anyway after buying it with basic equipment.

Forward assist IS valuable for quietly chambering a round without putting your finger in the ejection port and a dust cover is nice, if not necessary, to have for some of us.

The sport is a good rifle. However calling it superior to more traditional AR designs is a stretch, IMHO.

At the ranges most people shoot, the 1/9 twist will stabilize almost any round (under 200 yds). Heavy ammo is extremely expensive and 55 grn. ammo is the cheapest and most widely used anyway. The 1/9 twist is actually preferred for lighter , varmint rounds many use to hunt prarie dogs and vermin.

Buy what appeals to your senses and you will not regret it. My rifle is extremetly accurate and I would put the bbl. up against most. Technique and quality sights/scope are (along with a really good trigger) much more important than twist rate or lining type.

Where did I say the Sport was superior? I stand by my statement that I believe the barrel on the Sport is better, in theory at least. The 1/8 twist allows more versatility on the heavier end, and may give up some on the lighter end. Very popular twist rate in the hunting community. I have seen 1:9 barrels that would keyhole 68gr within 100 yards. Neither twist is optimal for the varmint 40 grainers. If you are shooting that light, you should be looking at 1:12.

Forward assist is over rated...wasn't even trained on it in the military. I keep hearing the "quietly chambering a round" theory, but that can be accomplished with the cut out. Not sure when that would even be used, but to each their own, I guess.

I'll give you the dust cover. No argument there. May not be needed, depending upon environment, but nice to have.

Front sight post....some prefer fixed, some prefer folding, some prefer optics only, personal choice. I don't notice it when using a red dot, so I don't mind fixed.

I'm not trying to turn this into a pissing match. Like I said, either way, he gets a good rifle and just has to decide which features or lack of are important. I chose the 1:8 twist over the dust cover and forward assist. For my use, it made the most sense. For others, they may chose the OR, or the 15-T, or the Magpul edition, etc. What makes this difficult is that the pricing he has between the OR and Sport is only $100. The OR is a good rifle and should have more value on the resale market, if that is important. If the traditional design AR is what he wants, then the OR will meet that, at least to those of us on this board.

No problem with what you say and have opinions about. Just wanted to point out that in terms of real world performance, the OR stands up very well vs. the Sport or any other carbine type AR.

Sometimes this board reads a bit slanted and that is fine. Just don't want someone's choice based on anecdotal preference as opposed to real world performance.

I see people touting 1/7 twists on other boards and have actually defended the sport. Factually, I think very few people actually shoot heavy, expensive loads (actually longer loads developed for the military) but still think they need the fastest twist available.

Fact is, under about 200 yds. , even the heavy loads will stabilize well with a 1/9 twist. which ONLY IN MY OPINION is still the best compromise for the spectrum of commonly used ammo.

That is the game changer right there...go with the Sport, better barrel.

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This Signature is too Short!

I checked with Count Chocula and he disagrees.

That dried up old coffin creeper? I staked his butt years ago

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This Signature is too Short!

LOL...............

Agree, I even said in an earlier post that in reality, either rifle would have probably worked for me. For only $100 difference, it's a tough decision.

Texit, forget about the price. Which features are most important to you? Dust cover and forward assist, or iron sights ready to shoot out of the box? Make a decision man, so we can congratulate you and leave this thread alone!

OK all disagreements aside, where he is purchasing, the retailer has put the sport up into another level. Please do not get me wrong, I love my Sport, it is possibly the finest rifle I have ever shot. But at $699 it is overpriced, for the $100 he can get the OR have you seen the pics of my Sport, it is dressed just like the OR, I do believe the barrel is better and your gonna have to hit me in the head with a hammer to change my opinion. the 1-9 is also a great barrel but the melonite makes the world of difference as far as lifetime and shootability. FA and Dustcover are great things to have, I keep my Sport in a tactical bag, yeah she gets a little lint on her but with the bolt closed its not a problem. We are not in the sandbox, I have a nephew who just came back from the sandbox and is going back in 2 weeks, he swears the Sport is the finest rifle he has ever shot also, except for some Chytec thing he shoots. (SP) anyhow for the $100 he is getting an awesome weapon, it is the retailer who has decided to up his profit margin on the Sport because the do sell extremely well and are so sought after that it is a sellers game. Get what you want you will be happy either way, you are never going to shoot out your barrel IMHO because none of us can afford that much ammo. So get which one your brain takes you to.

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Grover Oathkeeper

Sorry guys.... just had to bump this. I was searching for something else and came upon this thread. Love post #12 and Oneye's post above mine! Oh the good ole' days!