My bad. Sorry. .223 it is.

__________________
-John

Was talking with a friend at work tonight about reloading. He called a friend (on his cell) who's brother shoots iron sights in competition at 1000 yards and is an Army sniper. This guy also shoots long range and when he gets back from Chicago I'm taking my two AR's over for him to guage depths for me on my Rock River and 15 T. He did say my chrome Rock River 20" 1in 9 will handle the 80 & 90 grain bullets just fine and he'd give me load data and OAL for both. But said to stay under that (80-90 grain for the T 1 in 8 5r barrel. Also said to stay at LEAST .0010 away from the lands in the jump area of the chamber on both. He should be back in a week or two. For long range on my RR I'd have to hand load the bullets, but the barrels on both were made to take it. But definatly said to STAY OFF THE LANDS AND KEEP JUMP SPACE for the bullets. I guess they have a loading area,tools,libruary of data we never even dreamed of and a long outdoor range to die for. Back to school and two new VERY experienced tutors.

80-90 for a 1:9 sounds like not enough twist, but every barrel is different and I'm sure this guy knows WAY more aboout it than I do. I did get 100 of those 80's and shot 'em in the sport 5R/1:8. They showed promise, but not as much as the 75's. I have to admit that I'm jealous of you getting to pick this guy's brain. Keep us posted and don't hog all that info either! We wanta learn too.

I pulled the trigger and bought the Lee Turret press kit and have been reading a reloading book. Just wanted to see if there's a step I'm missing or recommendations to reload .223 another way.

I've been reading the Lyman 49th edition reloading book and have come up with the steps so far for .223:
1. Clean cases-Going to use a tumbler with Walnut media
2. Inspect cases
3. Inside neck bushing?-Don't know if this is needed
4. Case lubrication-Going to use the Lee lubrication that comes with my kit.
5. Resize case and primer removal-Lee turret press, bought the .223 3 die set.

-Insert 1st case into the cartridge headspace gauge

6. Remove lubricant and second inspection.-Do you recommed running the brass through the tumbler again or just wipe off the lubricant with a clean towel?
7. Measure all cases-Bought a caliper
8. Trim cases to a uniform length-Bought the Lee case trimming set with the debur/chamfer tool.

-debur

-tap case upside down

-never trim more than 4 times-Is this correct?

9. Primer seating-Set came with the Lee small and large safety prime.
10. Weighing powder and charging-Lee kit with the Pro auto disc powder measure. Also bought the Lee rifle charging die.

-test the dispenser weights-Bought a digital scale

11. Bullet seating and crimping

-seat bullet to max OAL, may very plus or minus .005"

12. Final inspection

-look for imperfections

-run fingers over primers to check for depth

-drop case in headspace gauge to make sure it will chamber properly-Bought the Wilson headspace gage.

- measure a sample of loads for OAL.

-put into case with all ammo info: date loaded, primer used, times trimmed, powder and charge, bullet brand, weigh and type, and OAL.

Now heres the Lee Classic Turret press instructions:
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/90064.pdf

As well as a youtube video I found here:
Lee Classic Turret Loading .223 Remington Part II - YouTube



It's a bit different than the steps from above. I just wanted to get some recommendations from you here.

Thanks!

I think you're gonna do well as a reloader!
Here is what I do as related to your questions, others do it differently, you will find what works best for you.
I just wipe lube off cases, I like Hornady One Shot, if you change lubes clean you FLR die and relube it with the lube your gonna use. DO THIS EVERY TIME you change lubes! Stuck cases suck. Some of the guys re-tumble, nothing wrong with this either.
I don't neck brush and I only measure cases randomly. If the majority of my samples are over max length, I trim 'em all. I also trim cases til they crack or are otherwise unusable, that may be 2 times or 10 times. I like the auto-disk charger too, just started using it a couple of months ago. After I charge a tray, I take that tray into bright light and visually inspet each cartridge. Nothing like the human eye to see an anomaly. I have a piece of glass out of a picture frame that I lay on my loading bench and place the primed cases primer down on it. I will wobble the table and any cartridge that wobbles more than 2-3 times has a high primer. I do this prior to charging and I use a hand priming tool. If the primer goes in too easy, I throw the brass away. I also keep a journal of my reloading, and log everything I do. Again, others do it differently, just find what works best for you and stay safe.
I've no doubt that you will.

Thanks for the advice. I am very anal according to the ones close to me... I am thinking about just wiping the lube off with a clean towel.

Great job on yer indepth research into re-loading... i did and it has proven itself for sure

You are doing a few more steps than I do, but do what you feel comfortable with. I have yet to wipe off lube and no issues to date. Most is alcohol based (one Shot) and seems to just go away after time...
I do use synthetic Motor oil on my 1st case and about every 20ish afterwards. Helps keep die Lubed and never have had a stuck case. Have had CAM screw loosen... but a slight tightening and case comes right out...

i also weight every case after loading to be sure it's in the right BallPark of Powder. I do it 2 at a Time and Inspect every pair of Brass and Primer before weighing each Round. that way I see any Brass issue, Primer issue and be sure it has a full Load Of Powder...In addition i will case gauge 10% ish of all Rounds...

I haven't trimmed cases in awhile.... I may test a few that are tumbling as i type this... just to see... I do Randomly test overall round Length.... nothing even close to MAX length to date.

I also use the lee pro Powder measure... Works Like a CHAMP..... and very consistent.... Ya better get one... My Advise..

I am about to hit the bench and punch out a couple Hundred more rounds.....

Weather is FINALLY cooling down... in Low 70's in am and Highs about 90.....
Have my 6 gongs and paper targets and reactive Targets all dialed now... even brought out 2 R/C Planes and flew those... was a Nice 5hr trip to the desert.... Fun Times.....

I keep looking at reloading 9mm, but without buy Bulk Components not sure its worth it yet...... maybe when my .223 bulk is low I may look at it again.... buying 9mm factory for $.22ea ish is pretty good... and I dont shoot NEAR the amount that i do of .223.... so loading .223 at about $.16/ea ea helps alot



Good luck, stay safe, and Have a BLAST.....



..........

__________________
--Stav--

No worries. These two guys are shooting a 1000 rounds a week (wish I had a sponcor to feed my adiction !!). My head was smokin' after just talking with him for 20 min on lunch break. Started all my old reloading gears in motion again.

I got my Lee Hand Press today, I had 150 cases sized, primed, chamfered, and polished with one of those green (I cant remember the name) scrubbing pad. All of this brass was on its 3rd reload and I length sized them but it seems that only about 1 out of every 8 or so needed any trimmed off. I also took my Lee Powder Dipper set and a jug of CFE223 and figured out what the first 10 dippers or so hold as far as the CFE, the 1.6cc dipper that comes with the Die set in a pinch would load you a charge of 26.2gr of CFE223. So I started loading my test loads using 55gr V-Max Blems from Midway, COL of 2.255. I have 10 loaded with a charge of 25.8, 10 with 26.0, 1(so far) 26.2. I am going to load a total of 10 each of 26.2, 26.4 and 26.6. I have about 300 rounds loaded up with 26.8. That load was working well for me in the Spring but I have changed my rifle a bit since and when I started I just started out in the middle between high and low and only made one adjustment once I got to shooting them. I went from 27 to 26.8. I have bullets loaded also at 27 and 27.4. GMCMan is doing well at 25 and he explained how he got his load. The bullet he is loading matches the BC of one of the 2 loads listed in the Hodgdon Manual. My bullets have a way higher BC than either of the two 55gr loads listed so I thought I would go with the hotter of the two where he went with the milder of the two. So when we get back from my Daughters wedding I will finish loading this test series and see how they shoot. Anyway I really like this Hand Loader, a person can really be finicky on what and how they are loading. And they are not really much slower than my classic single press.

__________________
Grover Oathkeeper

Congrats Grover on the new son-in-law

I started cleaning my brass after resizing and decapping with rubbing alcohol and you wouldnt believe the gunk it removes. then I finish prepping the cases. its a extra step but it only takes a few minutes to wash them in the alcohol but drying takes overnight.

So you use your tumbler first to clean the brass, then you lube it, resize and decap, clean with rubbing alcohol, trim and debur(if necessary), then seat the new primer, charge, seat the bullet, and crimp?

Yikes! I must be lazy or something. I deprime the .223 brass with a universal deprime die. Then I chuck it into this:



Hot water + simple green + dish washing soap. I clean for about an hour. The brass doesn't come out shiny. It comes out clean & reloadable. The primer pockets also get cleaned.

I remove them from the cleaning solution, pop them into a dedicated brass salad spinner. Rinse, spin, repeat. I then dump out the brass onto a towel and let air dry.

I lube with Hornady One Shot case lube, resize, trim, deburr, champher, and am good to go.

__________________
-John

I throw them back in the tumbler after the debur,if required for a hour to get the extra shine, I guess its the marine in me that really likes shiny brass

Attached Images

SS850297.jpg (141.2 KB, 17 views)

thats a great way to clean them I like shiny but the main objective is to get the gunk out.

This is as clean as I get the brass.

__________________
-John

Nothing wrong with that Japes they look pretty good. Its just the misguided child in me that likes the shine

I'd like the shine too. I just don't want to deal with media, a tumbler on for hours, etc...

__________________
-John

That's some REALLY clean brass there. I may try your rubbing alcohol after depriming but I don't think I will tumble again.

What I do is put the alcohol in a tupperware container and then after resizing place the brass in the alcohol, then I put the lid on and shake vigorously ( lid needs to be tight ) and remove the brass and place the brass in the bucket lined with paper towels to dry and take a funnel with a paper towel in the funnel and pour the alcohol back into the bottle for next time. its unreal how much gunk is caught on the towel.

I like John's cleaner...esp the clean primer pockets. I hate cleaning primer pockets!

__________________
James

Thanks, bought some rubbing alcohol today. Going to give your method a shot. I know those primer pockets can get pretty dirty.

CCI #41 primers are going up but they are still low here for now 25 per 1k Widener's Reloading and Shooting Supply INC everywhere else they are 38 up per 1k
I just ordered 6k and 16 lbs of CFE223 from them.

Where do you store your powder and primers. It can get to 105 degrees here on some days during the summer so I don't know if the garage is the best place.

I store mine in the workshop but it has a heat pump in it and highly insulated. I just finished building it last year so it doesn't cost a lot to heat or cool, plus having white shingles helps cut the heat down.

here is a article on storage I would recommend reading. http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech...h_notes.htm/60

Good Morning Gentlemen, I am finally able to get back into the forum. Anyway we are in Tulsa, OK. I am going to a Place called Dong's Reloading Goods here in Tulsa today. I need some primers and bullets (maybe) and powder (maybe). Dongs was founded in 1946 by Mable and Fong Dong. Ok I am laughing. They do have different M&P15's for sale and I was able to look up the prices on things. I may go to Wolf SRMag primers $29.99 for 1k, I prefer CCI #41 but price makes a difference and from what I understand the #41 are just a hot Magnum Primer but a little harder material so that pin bounce wont set them off. Anyway like Max I like my brass shiny as a Marine Corps bathroom (all polished brass) so I universal deprime, run through the tumbler, resize, tumble, trim,chamfer, scotch pad polish and prime then I am ready to load...lots of extra labor, I know but I am not in a position to send a pic of my extra shiny brass at the moment

__________________
Grover Oathkeeper

Im glad its not just me

LOL you guys may rub off on me. My desert blend walnut media came in yesterday and the tumbler comes in Tuesday. Then the press comes in Wednesday. So I'll tumble the brass Tuesday night, set up the press Wednesday. If I'm not satisfied with the brass finish I may tumble after I resize/deprime and clean with rubbing alcohol. Have a good time in Tulsa.

You guys are MARRIED Right... you dont sleep with that Pretty Brass do ya

Sorry Guys... way too much work for me... Pretty Brass dosent mean I shoot any better

But again...... Find a process that works for ya and have at it...


Now if I could Paint em Oregon State ORANGE.... That I might do


LOL

__________________
--Stav--

Nope I am Happily divorced my ex hated firearms with a passion,nagged and nothing I did was ever correct or good enough so now I am having fun with my new hobby and generally enjoying life.

be sure to add a metal polish ( not brasso) in the media, it helps clean and polish, I use fliz but there are many other kinds just stay away from petroleum and ammonium based polish. the Ammonium breaks down the brass and the petroleum breaks down the gunpowder,however if you use the alcohol to clean and not re-tumble the alcohol should remove all traces of both .

I got some Flitz along with the walnut desert blend. It's actually the only reloading supplies I have in my possession. Everything else is going to be delivered Tuesday and Wednesday.

Hi guys I am home...My Daughter has a beautiful wedding, her new father-in-law is a Baptist Minister. Without going into detail we didnt have a lot in common. I did talk with some of the ex's family members, they all still like me. One family has 4 Modern Sporting Rifles 2 Sports, 1 OR and 1 Stag. And just like us they have bought all the stuff to start reloading and we chatted for quite a while. I kinda expect the father to join us here.
Anyhow... I went to Dongs Reloading, talk about a large candy store. I didnt have enough time to really browse but I could have spent 3 or 4 hours in there. They had everything and sell a lot online just not powders or primers but everything else. I did buy 1k Wolf 223 primers @ $29.99. I also bought 2, 100 round boxes of Hornady .224 55gr SP SX bullets @ $12 a box. I didnt buy any powder, he had a lot of different powders but as I have been buying it by the pound and he was $6 higher per pound of the CFE223 than my regular place in Wichita and we are going there next week. I almost have the wife convinced to let me buy an 8lb Jug of it (Save a lot of Money)!!
Has anyone loaded the Hornady 55gr SP SX? The reviews on it are really good but they say you can load it too fast. If your RPM's get too high the jacket will sling off of it. Hornady says 220,000 to 250,000 rpms. The formula for RPMs is as follows MV*720/rate of twist, like this 2800 * 720/8 twist=252000. Which says I would need to load it down to around 2750fps which I can do. the reviews say it is super accurate and the sx means super explosive even on soft tissue so I will find out.
I have my test series loaded up, 50 rounds total, COL 2.255" cases all trimmed to 1.750", all CCI #41 primers, all Hornady 55gr V-max blems (w/can). I checked the weight on all the bullets and they are all 55gr. I checked my Armscors and they varied +/- .6gr so I didnt use them. CFE223 Powder 10 each of the following loads 25.8, 26, 26.2, 26.4 and 26.6. Hopefully I will shoot them tomorrow and will post pics and results plan on taking the chrony with me also. So there is my reloading tale for the weekend. Oh I absolutely love my Lee Hand Press. I have some cases ready to go (100) I may take them with me in case I need to load some up at the range. You all take care and I will bother you tomorrow!!

__________________
Grover Oathkeeper

I store mine in my closet, it is the only temperature and humidity stable place I have to store it.

__________________
Grover Oathkeeper

What bullets do you recommend for a good price and quality for target shooting?

I found these at Midway and they have good reviews and are priced good.

Hornady Bullets 22 Cal (224 Diameter) 55 Grain Full Metal Jacket Boat

99.8% of what I load are these Bullets

Work great and a Good Price... i ordered a box of 6,000 a few months ago..... should last me a few more months



.....

__________________
--Stav--

Thanks I am probably going to order some.

I used to reload shotgun shells. In addition to saving a boat load of money, I found it to be relaxing because I had to pay attention to the task instead of my usual everyday worries. It also beats watching the junk on the boobtube.

I use mostly Hornady bullets, I have from 53gr to 75gr, A-max, V-max, Z-max, BTHP Match, FMJ BT, and SPSX. Here are the bullets that I am loading for my test series.


I also have Armscor FMJBT (not very consistent in weight) Midway Blems (good bullets when you can get them) And Dogtown HPFB!!

__________________
Grover Oathkeeper

Range results from today the 50 and 100 yards shot great with the 25 grains of cfe223 however when I went to the 200 yard line I had over 1 foot of drop, according to a much more experienced reloader there the fps was only 1900 at 200 so I need to increase my grains up. so time to pull some rounds and increase the loads.

thanks so much, I have my latest test series starting at 25.8gr and was thinking about loading some lower. 26.8 has worked well for me in the past but I never laddered my loads. So I will shoot what I have and not worry about going below 25.8gr...you answered that for me without even knowing

I am going to go ahead and load through the entire range of recommended loads 26 to 27.8gr. Starting @ 25.8gr. I already have Data on 27.8, it has worked for me as a long distance hunting round but I think I can find a better one. I am already set with the first 5 going in .2gr increments and then when I get the right area I will work around in .1 increments. Data to follow.

__________________
Grover Oathkeeper

After careful consideration ( running smack into a wall ) lol I went ahead and purchased a chronograph

Amazon.com: Chrony Beta Chrony: Sports & Outdoors

this looked like a good one and not to expensive

I have the Green F1 by Chrony...it is great, if you get the remote control you will find that it will store info for like 20 or more shots plus give you the average and the deviation. BHarada built his, I was going to but I didnt have the right parts so I bought it. Come to find out they turned out super similar, Piece of 1/2" pvc and a small stereo plug and a micro pushbutton switch. There is a thread here on how to do it as far as which wires go where. You can send it in for the upgrade for all of this but the only thing they do is send it back with the remote. Check it out it really is handy, I can sit at my shooting table and completely do everything with my chrony plus I dont have to write down the data after every shot or get up to reset the chronograph. JMO but it is great to have, I have used it for all of my handloads for all of my rifles. Also you will want to set it up at least 10ft in front of your rifle or the muzzle blast will knock the shades off (from experience) LOL

__________________
Grover Oathkeeper

Well I cleaned and polished about 300-400 .223 rem brass last night with my new tumbler. It worked like a champ with the Walnut desert blend.

The Lee classic press and all the dies for .223 rem and .45 ACP along with the rest of my reloading equipment is on the UPS truck to be delivered today!

I will be like a kid in the candy store tonight setting it all up.

Just wanted to thank everyone in this thread for all the help and advice. I will keep you updated on my progress.

I actualy did a first on Monday

de-pimed and sized 120 cases. then checked all Lengths and Primer pockets, then tumbled again

only 8 outa 120 where even close to needing trimmed
and after cleaning/tumbling again i didnt hardly see any difference with using the primer Pocket tool to clan it More...

So... what did I learn


I can blow thru 120 cases de-prime and size in like 20 minutes, maybe even less... So once all are done, It should speed up my loading alot. I just got an additional plate for my lee pro 1000 turret and placed the Die in it. Then left the other 2 in the other turret and can swap the turrets back and forth.

Also the did seem a bit cleaner in the Primer pocket and could notice the sizing oil not on em either.

So a good learning try, and i will be doing it this way from Now on... Will speed things up for sure....



Oh and a GREAT Range day yesterday.... weather is cooling down nicely.... Even managed to crash 2 planes.......LOL




..

__________________
--Stav--

I've reloaded for several decades, and I've found the secret to accuracy and cost is the bullet.

For example, depending on how much you like to phutz with stuff, range scrounged brass can be tumbled, weighed by lots, trimmed, have the necks cut concentrically, have the primer pockets re-punched, etc. It's your time to waste.

Things like powder and primers can be purchased in bulk and in lots. That's about as cheap as you can get it. Same way for things like varmint bullets.

Buy in bulk.

But what about practicing? I cast my own bullets out of linotype. I had found a printer going out of business, but I salvaged every wheel weight I could find, plus pure lead from my telephone company friends, and ingot bars of tin and solder. I made my own linotype.

When I cast, I cast all day. I used multi-ganger molds, culled like crazy, and became quite popular amongst my friends.

There were periods of years where I spent nothing on shooting. Nothing.

here is a good deal for wolf primers if anyone needs primers
Widener's Reloading and Shooting Supply INC

Today I am pulling bullets and am going to set up a ladder like Grover. One thing is I have already weighed my new bullets so I will be using the same weight bullet for the charges.

that's a good price they are a .01 less per round then the winchester 55 grains I just bought.

GMC man...I am glad you are doing it also, That way I before I set up my next series we can compare notes. With two of us working on the same powder we will have more information, especially with 16" barrels than any of the reloading books or internet sites for CFE223. Like you I really like the powder but need to do a little more research considering all the reloading manuals use 24" barrels.

__________________
Grover Oathkeeper

I was thinking the same thing, which is why I bought a chronograph .

Anyone here use TAC for their .223 rounds? I've been reading some good reviews about it. The Hornady book for 55 grain bullet shows a starting load of 21.5 gr. to max of 24.7 gr.