So a friend loan me a Primary Arms Red dot.
Being a newbe to ARs I'm wondering is there a point of reference
of of how far to put the Red Dot from my eye?
image.jpg

Not really, I've mounted half way down the barrel scout style, as well as all the way back. Where ever you mount it, once it's sighted in, be sure you somehow mark where you have it. That way if you have to remove it, you should be able to remount it and it still be accurate.

JMO

I mounted mine just far enough ahead of the rear iron sight so my dust cover clears the rear iron sight.

I have my strikefire mount on the last slot of the upper, right before the upper meets the quadrail. Puts the closer lense right above the trigger. But you should play around with it a bit, put it where seems most comfortable. I put mine where it is so it's not obtrusive to my left eye, but still close enough to get a quick sight in my right eye when I pull the gun up. YMMV

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-Dik

I like mine mounted as far forward on the upper receiver as they will go.

I think for best accuracy it's important to keep the whole mount on the reciever and not on the forward rail if there is one. This really comes into play if your removing the Rail/Handgards for some reason. In my case I learned the hard way when I removed the handgards to mount a sling attachment.

Emory

Far enough forward that it won't impede deployment of your flip up rear sight.
That way in an emergency you just flip up the sight and aim through the red dot.

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Hold my beer and watch this!

Thanks everyone for the input.
Here is a better pic of Fiona aka M&P 15 (SUPER) Sport.
With the PA Red Dot and a hand me down PWS FSC 5.56.
MG

Attached Images

image.jpg (54.1 KB, 239 views)

Nice lookin' rifle.

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James

+1 on the good looking rifle. Again, it's really personal preference, but I would move the red dot a few slots further forward so you can still use your rear flip-up sight(looks like MBUS, but I can't really tell from a small iPhone screen) as gunslinger stated

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-Dik

I have my Vortex Strikefire on the slot closest to the barrel on the upper receiver, that works best for me.

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"Your dead, your dog meat pal"

Fiona...

I have my red dot mounted in a cantilever mount as far forward on the upper receiver as it can go as well. This way, I can keep both eyes open (and surprisingly, this comes fairly naturally) and see the dot, but I still have good peripheral vision. I find it faster to acquire the target this way. Mounting it farther forward also allows room on the rail for a magnifier, or night vision.

If you mount it farther back on the upper, you will decrease your peripheral, but increase your field of view through the red dot itself. This was explained to me as "fighting through the tube". I don't fight with mine, but this was how it was explained....

It does come down to personal preference and what other accessories you plan to use with the red dot. For me, I want to be able to hit hogs on the run out at the lease, so peripheral vision is good!

Flush with or just ahead of the mag well.

For tubed 1x dot sights: As far forward as it will go but remain over the upper receiver portion is more correct. Too far back and you can affect peripheral vision, too far forward and you have lots of peripheral vision but lessen field of view through the tube which may cause problems placing the dot quickly, so you need to balance the two. As far forward but remaining over the upper receiver is just about the correct balance for most.

I mainly went for field of view. Peripheral vision is still plenty good.

Ok then, this is starting to make sence. The peripheral issue seems quite logical. I will experiment with that in mind. Thanks a bunch everyone. So maybe another question would be, how much of the target should be seen through the tube? In other words more like a scope, or more like iron sights, ie a large aperture with a lit post?
Just for background, Fi or Fiona comes from a series called Burn Notice. The character Fiona is frequently seen using AR platform rifles. Anyway, at the end of the 5th season she turns herself in to the Feds. To protect the main character Michael.
Safe shooting everyone.
MG

Just a side note. It also works best (for me) with eye relief and getting a quick red/green dot to center of scope and on target.

Since the red dot is not magnified, how much of the target you see in the tube will depend on how close you are to the target. With my scope forward and both eyes open, it is almost like the tube isn't there, I just see a dot floating. I see a ghosting of the tube, but I focus on the dot. Place the dot over the target and squeeze.

My red/green dot is adjustable to light conditions and distance.

What do you mean that it is adjustable to distance? I can change the intensity of my dot, and I can change the MOA, or dot size, but I don't have anything for distance. How does it work?

If you are using any red-dot correctly, there are no "field of view" issues as with conventional telescopic optics. You should be looking only "at" the dot with both eyes open, not peering "through" the tube. (I have a couple of 2X Aimpoints, and even with magnification, the principle is the same). The device should be mounted as far forward as is feasible, to minimize the amount of downrange real estate it obscures, but as has been mentioned and explained, probably on the receiver rather than on the handguard of ARs. Hold your hand in front of your face and move it closer and farther away, and you'll see how much difference even a few inches makes in obscuring your downrange view.

Mainly the same thing you are talking about. I change "intensity/dot size" to match the target size/distance. Smaller target I change MOA to match. If dot is too big I adjust down. Close in I might adjust the dot larger. I have a changeable red/green dot depending on light conditions. Normally I'll keep the dot about mid sized. Easy to click up or down. I'm iron sighted/zeroed at 200 yards and already know if I need to hold over or shoot lower for POI (from my old days shooting iron sights before all the new do-dads),my red/green dot is adjusted to match my iron sights,200 yards. With light conditions,it's a giant plus being able to change dot color too. I like iron sights (old school) but older eyes (even with new implants for long range,not reading) it's still hard to get a good sight picture off "up close" iron sights. Handgun I'm just fine (you've heard the term "My arms are too short to read the news paper" ). So I found the red/green dot helps get on target faster and adjusted it to match my iron sights.I still prefer a good scope. But the red dots add a new perspective to iron sights. I'd like to see a future red dot with range & windage dots/lines like some of my higher end scopes. Built in range finder would be nice too. But now we're talking BIG $$$$.

Maddmax, I guess I just never thought of changing the dot size having anything to do with distance. Honestly, I put mine on the smallest dot setting I have and leave it there.

I change the intensity on mine to deal with not being able to see the dot in certain lighting conditions. On mine, that gives the appearance of changing the dot size a little, but I think that is because it is a cheap optic and the dot loses it shape as I turn the intensity up. I have some other projects first, but an EO Tech is on my list.

I think it comes from having too much time on my hands (some days) and I like playing around ). Hunting,I prefer a good clean one shot kill. We have enough stray "yotes" running around this time of year and I have marked yardages I can compare range to also helps. Marked yardage comes from my old Army days on the firing range. ALL the targets were at a fixed yardage. Being a "good ol' country boy" it didn't take long to figure POI out for each range target to knock down.

I've also played with the dot sizes on a fixed object (like bow shooters foam animal targets) at different fixed ranges seeing if I can get a good distance guess. I'm still playing with that one. Beats shooting paper all the time and adds a challenge to the game.

i found this vid very helpful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX-4...e_gdata_player

The reticle of a red-dot sight will appear the same size to your eye no matter whether it is mounted close or far.

So, the answer is: Mount it wherever it fits.

Here is the EOTECH reticle at four different distances.
I put the EOTECH on top of my hot water heater, and shot the pics from four different distances.
Notice how the size never changes.
Pretty weird - but is a fact.

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WWSSD?
What would Skeeter do?

Realistically, with the "tubed" sight, does it really matter?

You can only mount it but so far forward - not like across the room on top of the hot water heater.

If your head is where it is supposed to be on the gun, the dot is going to be right in front of your eye whether the device is mounted on the rear of the receiver or halfway up the handguard.

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WWSSD?
What would Skeeter do?

Wow, praise the LORD for forums. This is so much good information.
Thanks so much again.
MG

Good information from all. I enjoyed reading the posts and looking at the pics... especially the YouTube clip.

Hog

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Isaiah 55:8-9
Phil. 4:13

Well, yes it does matter some for a tubed site. Its a little eaiser with the EoTech because its more forgiving for head movement/placement/alignment vs rear view angle and still see the dot so has a wider rear view angle for the dot than the fixed dot tubed sight. With the dot tubed site you need to remain in line pretty much with the tube sight, the further it is forward the more head movement/placement/alignment affects alignment for the rear view angle through the sight to still see the dot. So if you put the tubed sight, for example, on the hand guard forward of the upper receiver portion more towards the front iron sight, aiming alignment thru it may become more critical than the EOTech at the same postion. The EOTech is, and to some degree some fixed dot non-tubed RDS's are, more forgiving in this aspect.

There are a ton of different opinions, and everyone seems to have a spot on the weapon they say is perfect for them. Its taught different ways in different courses sometimes.

Alright everyone the newbe is back. While I still haven't shot it yet I have be moving the red dot up a notch at a time. Then i walk around the house. I'm 2 or 3 notches forward from where I started. I really see how periferal vision comes into play. I'm at the point where, with both eye open I can comfortably put the dot on small object and if I close my left eye and look through the tube I'm right where I should be.
Great info. Thanks
MG

Revelation after rereading this thread I am doing the same thing with my Homebuilt...plus that video was the bomb....I ended up moving my optics about 6 slots forward, the reticule and dot immediately come into view without having to look for them....very educational thread!!!

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Grover Oathkeeper

Sounds like you are geting the hang of it and discovered the 'secret' on your own

Absent vision issues and problems with the sight its self; If you need to "hunt" for the dot, or the dot seems to shift position on target between both eyes and one eye aiming, or you need to concentrate hard on maintaining a sharp dot in vision, then its probably in the wrong place even if one eye aiming does the trick. The dot should simply be a stable part of whats in your field of vision with both eyes open and not a separate part that you need to specifically focus on or "hunt".

I'm running a EOTech mounted just ahead of BUIS's, shooting both eyes open, and all is well. But, at some point, isn't eye dominance (left eye dominate, right handed shooter, or reverse.) going to play a part in where the optic will best be located? Just wondering.

The dot should simply be a stable part of whats in your field of vision with both eyes open and not a separate part that you need to specifically focus on or "hunt". A 1x RDS with unlimited eye relief, for both eyes open use, is based upon a optimal balanced vision concept with both eyes in the same plane at the same time.

Let me see if I can explain all this correctly below, I don't have the actual training documents with me right now so this is from memory;

To be frank, approximately half of the population in the U.S. would not be able to achieve that perfectly with a RDS. Its because perfect both eye open use of a RDS needs optimal vision in both eyes to be balanced the same and about half the population doesn't have the same balanced vision in both eyes. Sometimes its correctable by glasses, contacts, surgery like lasik, or maybe other methods. Shooters generally tend to have better vision than about half the population, or have vision thats already been corrected by some method. Some people never notice the difference because they unconsciously have trained theirselves over time through life to seemlessly compensate that it doesn't seem any different and they are not even aware they do this. Some people can "train" theirselves to do it by learning how to seemlessly and automatically concentrate a little harder with the weaker eye more than the other.

This is not to say that people without balanced optimal vision in both eyes can't use such a sight effectively with both eyes open, because they can if they allow for compensations they may not already have or be using or learn to use it. However, there are those that simply can't do it with both eyes open no matter what they try and its probably not their fault but rather that they simply do not have the natural capability for such just as there are people who, for example, can not view all the 3D aspects fully of 3D movies with those red/green-blue 3D glasses things. The majority of shooters will probably use the Eotech fine with both eyes open once they get the hang of it. When you hear people say (or see people post stuff on the internet) something about not being able to use an EoTech and prefering a tubed type RDS like an Aimpoint, plenty of times this is because they don't have that natural optimum balanced vision or the ability to compensate and they do not even realize it because the rest of the world vision wise looks and is perfectly normal to them and always has been and when they use a dominate eye sighting device (e.g. magnified optics such as a scope or iron sights) everything is perfectly normal for them. For these people, although they may not know it, they tend to prefer the tubed type in this aspect because their dominate eye can play more of a part in helping them compensate because eye alignment thru a tubed sight by virtue of its construction is in the same plane line with where the dot is located in the tubed sight and because the eye will naturally tend to seek the center of a circle. The more dominate eye is tending to seek the center of the round tube rear circle automatically which is where the dot appears located. Then, some people just simply prefer a tubed type of RDS regardless of vision.

For a sight like the EoTech, eye dominace should not play a part for vertical mounting on the top plane of the weapon for both eye open use with the eyes in the same plane with the sight over the upper receiver, unless the person simply can not maintain the dot properly with both eyes open then they have a tendency to use the dominate eye more. If the Eotech sight (and tubed sights also) is mounted too far forward from the both eyes open position for the person then eye dominance may begin to play more of a role depending on the persons vision. For the balanced vision person able to use both eyes open, too far forward for the tubed sight and the dominate eye tries to take over naturally while the Eotech is still able to provide both eyes open aiming without a tendancy for the dominate eye to take over although too far forward for some and they have a tendency to shift to dominate eye use. Of course on offset types of mounting, for example mounting at 45 degrees or 90 degrees from vertical, the dominate eye can have more of an effect as the shooter shifts focus from the top weapon plane to the offset plane.

thats about where i have my scope on my 15-22.... Great rifle!

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Cheers

This has been and is a great discussion. So found this today.
https://rdl.train.army.mil/catalog/v...22.9/chap2.htm

So it starts off discussing how to zero your rifle which is what I am reading up on. Although if you keep reading down the page you will find that they discuss the M68 RDS with instructions on where to mount.
More great stuff.
MG

Here is where I mounted mine.

I like the option of using either my red dot or my mbus without removing the red dot. So the red dot is far enough forward so that I can flip the mbus up and also pop open the red dot covers without removing anything. The red dot has a tint and when using the mbus or red dot I open the covers to get a clear view with both eyes open and more light gathering.